#2419 - John Lisle
Historian John Lisle discusses the history of CIA mind control research, focusing on MKUltra, its OSS roots, and figures like Sidney Gottlieb, George White, and psychiatrist Ewen Cameron. He explains how the program was structured, the drugs and psychological techniques that were tested, the disastrous impacts on unwitting subjects, and the near-total lack of oversight. The conversation expands into government secrecy, real versus fabricated conspiracies, cognitive dissonance, cult dynamics, social media disinformation, and how human psychology shapes both science and belief in conspiracies.
#2414 - Brian Simpson
Joe Rogan and comedian Bryan Simpson discuss recent UFC fights, Dagestani training culture, and why elite wrestlers and fighters develop such unusual levels of discipline and resilience. They dive into the realities of weight cutting, diet and self-discipline, the comedy industry's gatekeeping and diversity debates, and strange internet subcultures like furries and bronies. The conversation also covers government overreach in events such as Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Tulsa massacre, as well as debates over Epstein files transparency, wealth taxes, political corruption, and how charities and institutions often mismanage funds.
Selects: How Conversion Therapy Doesn't Work
The hosts examine the history, methods, and impact of conversion therapy, also known as reparative or ex-gay therapy, which claims to change a person's sexual orientation from gay to straight. They trace its roots from early pseudo-scientific psychological practices to its adoption by the Christian right as a major culture-war issue, and detail why the medical and psychological communities now condemn it as ineffective and harmful. The episode also covers specific abuse stories, research findings on mental health risks, legal efforts to ban conversion therapy for minors, and the movement's public unraveling through high-profile ex-gay leaders who later renounced it.
Introducing: The Devil You Know with Sarah Marshall
Host Sarah Marshall introduces her mini-series "The Devil You Know," exploring the 1980s satanic panic through individual stories and sociological context. This first episode focuses on "Diane," a pseudonymous photographer who became the target of satanism rumors while teaching photography in rural Kentucky, and on how a Hollywood film shoot involving black dresses in Hazard, Kentucky was misread as evidence of devil worship. With commentary from sociologist Mary de Young and local resident Patrick Balch, the episode shows how small, unusual events were amplified by anxiety, rumor, and self-appointed experts into a nationwide moral panic.
#2381 - Taylor Kitsch
Taylor Kitsch discusses bowhunting, life in Montana, and the craft and psychological toll of acting in intense, often real‑life roles. He describes deep preparation for projects like "Lone Survivor," "American Primeval," and "Waco," including working closely with Navy SEALs, Native communities, and survivors. Kitsch also opens up about helping his sister through years of severe fentanyl and heroin addiction, founding the Howler's Ridge nonprofit, his father's death and funeral, and broader reflections on veterans, cult dynamics, grief, and the importance of staying uncomfortable and fully committed to challenging work.