#2419 - John Lisle
Historian John Lisle discusses the history of CIA mind control research, focusing on MKUltra, its OSS roots, and figures like Sidney Gottlieb, George White, and psychiatrist Ewen Cameron. He explains how the program was structured, the drugs and psychological techniques that were tested, the disastrous impacts on unwitting subjects, and the near-total lack of oversight. The conversation expands into government secrecy, real versus fabricated conspiracies, cognitive dissonance, cult dynamics, social media disinformation, and how human psychology shapes both science and belief in conspiracies.
#2411 - Gavin de Becker
Joe Rogan talks with criminologist Gavin about historical and modern government operations, pharmaceutical industry behavior, and public health policy. They discuss CIA covert programs like Project Gladio, patterns of propaganda and information control, and parallels between the AIDS crisis and the COVID-19 response. Gavin argues that citizens must adopt deep skepticism toward government, media, and pharmaceutical narratives, using examples from vaccine policy, Agent Orange, baby powder litigation, population control documents, and the war in Ukraine.
#2408 - Bret Weinstein
Joe Rogan describes an unusually vivid dream involving humanoid beings and uses it as a springboard to ask Brett about what dreams are and how lucid dreaming works. They then move into an extended discussion of artificial intelligence as an emergent, biology-like phenomenon, its potential to manipulate humans, and its interaction with social media, sexuality, education, and governance. The conversation also covers intelligence agencies, systemic corruption, pedophilia and blackmail, COVID-19 policy and vaccines, pharmaceutical incentives, wealth, socialism versus markets, academic resistance to paradigm shifts, and whether there is a viable path from the current crisis to a healthier societal structure.