#2419 - John Lisle
Historian John Lisle discusses the history of CIA mind control research, focusing on MKUltra, its OSS roots, and figures like Sidney Gottlieb, George White, and psychiatrist Ewen Cameron. He explains how the program was structured, the drugs and psychological techniques that were tested, the disastrous impacts on unwitting subjects, and the near-total lack of oversight. The conversation expands into government secrecy, real versus fabricated conspiracies, cognitive dissonance, cult dynamics, social media disinformation, and how human psychology shapes both science and belief in conspiracies.
#2386 - The Red Clay Strays
Joe Rogan talks with members of the Red Clay Strays about their origin as a bar cover band on the Gulf Coast, how their manager learned booking from scratch, and how the group has stayed together through heavy touring by centering their faith and a service-oriented mindset. They discuss writing emotionally heavy songs that resonate with depressed and suicidal fans, the grind of driving Uber during COVID to survive, and broader topics including hospitals as profit-driven businesses, extreme body modification and gene editing, social media-fueled hatred, government surveillance, UFOs, ancient civilizations, the Book of Enoch, and controversies around religious relics and the moon landing.
#481 - Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, Blitzkrieg, LSD, MKUltra & CIA
Lex Fridman talks with writer Norman Ohler about his research on drug use in Nazi Germany, including methamphetamine in the Wehrmacht and opioids in Hitler's inner circle. They discuss how overlooked pharmaceutical and illicit substances shaped military campaigns like the Blitzkrieg, Hitler's declining leadership, and postwar CIA programs such as MKUltra. The conversation also explores German resistance within the Third Reich, Berlin's postwar drug and club culture, and Ohler's broader project on the role of psychoactive drugs across human history.