Get Your Weekly Digest

Receive the best podcast summaries and insights delivered to your inbox every week.

We respect your privacy. Unsubscribe anytime.

The Joe Rogan Experience

#2381 - Taylor Kitsch

with Taylor Kitsch

Published September 18, 2025
Visit Podcast Website

About This Episode

Taylor Kitsch discusses bowhunting, life in Montana, and the craft and psychological toll of acting in intense, often real‑life roles. He describes deep preparation for projects like "Lone Survivor," "American Primeval," and "Waco," including working closely with Navy SEALs, Native communities, and survivors. Kitsch also opens up about helping his sister through years of severe fentanyl and heroin addiction, founding the Howler's Ridge nonprofit, his father's death and funeral, and broader reflections on veterans, cult dynamics, grief, and the importance of staying uncomfortable and fully committed to challenging work.

Topics Covered

Acting craft Military veterans Veterans mental health Bowhunting and archery Homelessness and drug addiction Trauma Cult dynamics Grief and loss Nature exposure Personal narrative

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Taylor Kitsch prepares obsessively for demanding roles, working with SEALs, shamans, tribal elders, and survivors to make characters like Murph in "Lone Survivor" and Isaac in "American Primeval" feel authentic.
  • His sister's decade‑long battle with fentanyl and heroin, repeated relapses, and eventual long‑term sobriety inspired his nonprofit Howler's Ridge, focused on the sober side of addiction and eventually helping veterans as well.
  • Kitsch describes how deeply inhabiting damaged characters-war photographers, cult leaders, traumatized detectives-can bleed into his real life through nightmares, heavy drinking, and mood changes, forcing him to develop rituals and boundaries to come back to himself.
  • He has repeatedly put his body on the line for roles, from extreme weight loss and thyroid damage to breaking a foot on "American Primeval" and choosing surgery that removed part of a bone so he could finish the show.
  • The conversation highlights the complexity of SEAL culture, moral gray zones in combat and intelligence work, and why many modern veterans struggle with loss of purpose, pills, and unprocessed grief when they return home.
  • Kitsch and Rogan explore cult psychology through Waco and other groups, noting how charismatic leaders exploit fear, scripture, and people's need for guidance, and how followers can cling to belief even after catastrophic outcomes.
  • Stories about Kitsch's alcoholic, bagpipe‑playing father, his final days, and the funeral show how loss can unexpectedly reconnect estranged siblings and force a reevaluation of priorities.
  • Both men emphasize that comfort and easy routines can dull life; they deliberately seek difficult hunts, heavy training, and scary roles to stay sharp, fulfilled, and honest with themselves.

Podcast Notes

Opening bowhunting talk and first hunting experiences

Joe's bowhunting practice philosophy

Joe explains why he practices at double his intended hunting distance[0:21]
• He shoots at 90-100 yards so that 40-45 yard shots during an actual hunt feel easy and "normal" in comparison.
Discussion of ethical shooting distances[0:28]
• Joe says he would not take an 85‑yard first shot on an animal, but might take an 85‑yard follow‑up shot if the animal is already hit and going down, to finish it quickly.

Taylor's first deer hunt with Marcus Luttrell

Taylor describes shooting his first and only deer with Marcus Luttrell and other SEALs on Luttrell's ranch[1:21]
• They drove into an opening, Luttrell pointed out a deer, and Kitsch used an M4 from a decent distance; despite his nerves, Luttrell praised it as a "great shot."
• When they drove up, the deer had run off; they followed the sound of the mortally wounded animal and a SEAL finished it with a pistol at close range.
Taylor's reflections on killing and eating the animal[3:12]
• He acknowledges the disturbing part of putting down a suffering animal but notes they ate the deer, which he calls "the good part."

Bowhunting and elk tracking in Montana

Bonding bowhunt with his brother in Montana[3:05]
• Taylor's brother loves hunting; on a friend's ranch, Taylor tracked elk while his brother bowhunted, treating it like wildlife photography-watching wind, starting before light, getting deep into the backcountry.
Calling in a big bull and intense adrenaline[3:28]
• He rattled antlers on a tree to agitate a bull, which responded by bugling more; Taylor, not even shooting, felt intense adrenaline as his brother army‑crawled toward the bull and missed the shot.
Elk vocalizations and physical impact[4:12]
• Both men note that close elk bugles give you goosebumps and seem to shake your whole body; Taylor calls bowhunting "a different hunt" where you truly earn it over days, especially closing within 50 yards.

Montana life, Austin memories, and early career with Peter Berg

Moving to Montana and returning to Austin

Taylor has lived in Montana for over five years[5:06]
• Flying into Austin brings back "memory lane" because he lived there 16+ years and it's where his career with "Friday Night Lights" began.
Austin landmarks tied to Friday Night Lights[5:20]
• He mentions filming near the School for the Deaf, landing by the old Dillon field across from the airport, staying at the Four Seasons, and learning to box at Richard Lord's gym.

Boxing with Peter Berg

Richard Lord as a zen boxing coach[5:47]
• Kitsch calls Richard Lord an amazing, "zend out" boxing coach who taught him in Lord's mid‑60s; he recalls a documentary about him.
Peter Berg's aggressive sparring style[6:11]
• Berg's boxing nickname is "Dirty Pete" because body‑shot sparring quickly escalates to no‑rules exchanges once he gets hit, even when actors are due on camera within a week.

Training and daily life with Berg

On‑set workouts and cold plunges[7:10]
• They reminisce about working out and cold plunging together at Rogan's on‑site gym, and note that Berg maintains a home setup with cold plunge and steam room.
American Primeval praise[7:32]
• Joe calls "American Primeval" intense and one of the most accurate portrayals of life in the West he's seen; his wife found it too intense to keep watching.

American Primeval: Shoshone preparation, shaman work, and Isaac's psychology

Immersing in Shoshone culture and spirituality

Working with a shaman near Livingston, Montana[9:42]
• Taylor connected with a cowgirl friend's shaman outside Livingston to help him build a character who was raised by the Shoshone and is "more Shoshone than white."
Visiting Wind River Shoshone elders[10:13]
• On the Wind River reservation he asked elders heavy cultural questions, including burial practices for a wife, and one elder returned later in a wheelchair to answer his questions for hours with transparent detail.
Shoshone language difficulty and honoring authenticity[11:08]
• He calls Shoshone language very tough to learn and says he regularly brought what he learned back to Berg, insisting they "honor these guys" and be as authentic as possible.

Sweat lodge practice and intention setting

Physical setup and ritual of the sweat lodge[11:14]
• The shaman keeps a fire burning, heats river rocks from Yellowstone, carries them into the center of a four‑door lodge, and pours river water over them; participants fast beforehand.
Intention ties and energetic focus[11:57]
• Before a sweat, he meets the shaman for one to two hours to clarify intentions, which might range from contemplating fatherhood, helping a heroin‑using friend, to processing his dad's death or even light matters.
Using sweats to prepare for roles[12:09]
• Kitsch plans a sweat before starting an upcoming movie, and used sweats specifically to ground himself for "American Primeval," including honoring horses with feathers and learning from the shaman how the Shoshone view horses.

Isaac's grief and warrior mentality

Backstory: white man married into Shoshone tribe[13:40]
• Isaac lost his family at six or seven, was adopted or sold to the Shoshone, later married the female chief's daughter and had a son; when the audience meets him he is mourning the death of his wife and son.
Circular worldview and death wish[13:57]
• Taylor explains the tribe's circular belief system-Isaac believes the only way to reunite with his family is to die honorably, which informs his wild, all‑in, biting style of fighting.

Improvised brutal fight scene and war cry

Unrehearsed cliff and river fight[14:36]
• Berg instructed Taylor and a Blackfeet stuntman to roll down a hill, fight to a river, then continue fighting in near‑freezing water with minimal planning, only calling out moves mid‑fight while a safety officer protested.
In‑scene communication instead of choreography[15:15]
• They swept the area for hazards, then signaled moves verbally during the take (e.g., "I'm gonna flip you"), while Berg yelled instructions like "find a rock, kill him" from behind the camera.
Developing and executing Isaac's war cry[15:46]
• Taylor worked on a war cry for months, warned the A‑camera operator to stay tight for it, and when he finally unleashed it Berg yelled cut and said he wasn't ready for how intense it was.

Lone Survivor preparation, SEAL training, and Murph's death scene

First time shooting guns and live‑fire training

Kitsch had never fired a gun before Lone Survivor[17:18]
• As a Canadian, he had never shot a gun until Lone Survivor; day one of prep with SEALs involved live fire, combat reloads, and blindfolded jam clears under the guidance of a deep‑voiced SEAL mentor, Chris.
Intense physical prep for Murph[17:57]
• He was at peak fitness: running Town Lake, doing the Murph workout three times a week with a weighted vest, and pull‑ups at Lake Travis High School while filming a small Canadian comedy simultaneously.

Simunition ambush drill and Marcus's harsh lesson

Talisman gear ambush scenario[20:16]
• For a simunition evolution, SEALs dressed in Taliban gear ambushed the actors on a mountain; Kitsch, acting as team lead like his character Mike Murphy, tried to push them to cover while rounds snapped overhead.
Marcus Luttrell's critique of their attitude[22:03]
• After they were quickly overwhelmed, Marcus halted the exercise and berated Kitsch for treating it lightly, emphasizing that their whole team would be dead and that, as the leader, it was his fault.

Meeting Dan Murphy and carrying the weight of responsibility

Pre‑shoot meeting with families of fallen[25:04]
• Berg brought families of the 19 men killed on the operation and rescue mission to meet the cast a week before filming, heightening Kitsch's anxiety about being worthy of portraying Dan's son Mike.
Dan Murphy's support and Murph's rifle detail[26:18]
• Kitsch told Dan he would give everything he had to play Murph authentically; Dan was gracious, gave him Mike's firefighter patch, and asked only that he show Murph using his rifle to push himself up a rock as he died.

Filming Murph's death scene in a parking lot

Unexpected location and emotional breakdown[29:10]
• Berg decided to shoot Murph's death on a raised stage in a parking lot with green screen and a Phantom slow‑motion camera to control light; Kitsch initially felt unprepared and angry, then broke down emotionally listening to his Murph playlist (Explosions in the Sky) before the take.
Three takes and crew confirmation[31:54]
• They did three takes including Murph pushing himself up with the rifle; the camera operator told Berg they had it, and Kitsch later watched the film for the first time with the Denver Broncos and was a "mess" from the pressure.
Lasting relationships with SEALs[34:11]
• He remains close with the Murphy family, Marcus Luttrell, and Ray Mendoza; he calls SEALs exceptional problem‑solvers who are often doctors and lawyers, and describes their brotherhood as "unquestionably" loyal.

Howler's Ridge nonprofit and Taylor's sister's addiction journey

Founding Howler's Ridge

Inspiration from sister's sober escape[39:32]
• Kitsch's sister, now almost 10 years clean and working as a nurse, once called him from a "sober escape" retreat with women she got clean with; this concept of the sober side of addiction inspired his nonprofit Howler's Ridge.
Mission: a place for addicts and vets in sobriety[40:03]
• He envisions Howler's Ridge as a destination for people in recovery-including veterans-to reconnect without substances, grounded in his experience watching his sister nearly die multiple times and be Narcan‑revived.

First confrontation with sister's fentanyl withdrawal

Realizing how serious fentanyl is[41:51]
• Just after "True Detective," his mom called about his sister's use; he admits he barely knew what fentanyl was beyond pain patches and underestimated it before learning it's 20-25 times worse than heroin and essentially a "deathbed" drug.
Nighttime pacing and muscle contractions[43:04]
• When she arrived in Marina del Rey, she had used right before flying and went into brutal withdrawal-pacing their small apartment, unable to sit because of muscle contractions so severe she fell off the bed, forcing them into a 3 a.m. walk on Abbot Kinney.

Detox, tough-love caretaker, and $30k sober livings

No hospital detox and "no methadone" policy[44:56]
• The local hospital refused to take her until she had detoxed; at a detox house an hour away, a blunt caretaker denied her pleas for methadone, telling her she hadn't "bottomed out" and would instead get Gatorade, topical muscle relaxer, movies, and cigarettes.
Expensive, low‑support sober living and repeated runs[46:07]
• After four and a half days she went to a Venice sober living facility costing $30,000 per month for only weekly psych sessions; contracts let them keep the money if she ran, which she did within hours-then repeated the pattern at other houses.

Overdoses, Narcan, and near‑death incidents

Sleeping pill overdose saved by time-release[47:56]
• At one facility, after a worker left a bottle of sleeping pills on a half‑door, his sister swallowed about 60 pills after saying "goodbye" to a boyfriend; paramedics pumped her stomach and discovered time‑release pills had prevented immediate death.
Shot up by others and dropped at a hospital[50:08]
• Later, hating needles, she let others inject her; after using her old tolerance dose post‑sobriety, she overdosed and was dumped on a hospital stoop, Narcaned without Kitsch initially knowing the details.

Al‑Anon, "waiting for the call," and rock bottom

His perspective shift in Al‑Anon[51:08]
• At an Al‑Anon meeting in Austin, he silently judged others' problems as trivial compared to his, while privately sitting "waiting for the call" that his sister had overdosed.
Final relapse and being scared straight[52:17]
• She called him from downtown Vancouver after witnessing a man sexually assault her friend; terrified, she asked to reenter the Westy House, and the director agreed after his pleas-she stayed nine months and has remained sober since.

Veterans, pills, purpose, and the cost of war

Ibogaine and Texas veteran treatment programs

Hope for ibogaine at Howler's Ridge[54:55]
• Taylor expresses hope that in a year or two they can legally offer ibogaine at Howler's Ridge in Montana, citing effective ibogaine programs in Texas targeting veterans.

Pill mills and addictive personalities

Ease of obtaining pills for veterans[55:25]
• He describes veterans being "cookie monster"-able to devour jars of prescribed pills that get continually refilled via doctors in Virginia, Hawaii, Florida-delivered right to their doors.
Addictive tendencies as double‑edged sword[55:55]
• Kitsch and Rogan note that the same addictive personality traits that drive excellence in SEALs can later fuel devastating substance abuse if not channeled properly.

War, mourning, and lack of decompression time

No time to mourn fallen teammates[58:08]
• Kitsch relays Ray Mendoza's stories: if a teammate dies on a Thursday op, you're back in workup by Tuesday-no real time to grieve, so emotions are stored and carried into future missions.
Shaping a "live wire" SEAL character[59:32]
• This insight freed him to play a more impulsive, emotionally raw SEAL in "Dark Wolf," understanding that unprocessed grief would make the character a mess.

Hurt Locker and returning to civilian life

Difficulty of transitioning home[59:55]
• They reference "The Hurt Locker" as a powerful depiction of a soldier unable to adjust to normal life after war, and note Marcus Luttrell going back to Ramadi after Operation Red Wings, wanting to "die with his boots on."

Comfort vs challenge, fear of failure, and preparation mindset

Comfort as an enemy of happiness

Both men see comfort as dangerous[1:01:01]
• Kitsch and Rogan agree that comfort can "kill" motivation and happiness; Kitsch fears balance and resting on past work, while Rogan says he once assumed wealth would lead to beaches and relaxation but now works even harder.

Nerves as a sign of doing the right work

Fear before intense roles and hunts[1:02:47]
• Kitsch admits being scared before starting a heavy upcoming role with lots of dialogue; Rogan parallels this with pre‑elk‑hunt anxiety, preparing hard with cardio, leg work, and hours of daily archery practice.
Preparation quiets self‑doubt[1:03:48]
• Kitsch compares his prep for roles to a UFC fighter's camp: you train relentlessly to quiet the inner voice saying you didn't do enough, so you can meet the challenge ready.

Extreme body transformations and method acting toll

Foot fracture on American Primeval and bone removal surgery

Breaking his foot during a fight scene[1:10:46]
• He broke a small bone along his big toe while filming a horse‑raid fight; continued the scene with Biofreeze despite shooting pain, then was initially told he could heal in a boot.
Emergency surgery and bone wax[1:12:10]
• A follow‑up X‑ray showed lack of healing, and he had surgery in Bozeman where doctors cut out part of the bone and used "bone wax" to cover it so he could get back to work; his foot still aches on uneven ground or side‑hilling.

Losing 30-35 pounds for roles and health consequences

Dropping 30 pounds for American Primeval[1:11:26]
• He lost about 30 pounds for Isaac, aided by sufficient prep time, to look starved and scarred in a revealing scene with his Shoshone brother and the female chief.
Bang Bang Club crash diet and thyroid damage[1:12:10]
• For "The Bang Bang Club" he had only 30 days and lost 35 pounds by running constantly, living on coffee, filtered low‑sodium broth, and broccoli; his heart rate dropped to the low 20s, he nearly failed a physical, and later developed thyroid problems.

Smoking weed with Oliver Stone and avoiding drugs

Minimal personal drug use[1:29:25]
• Kitsch says he has smoked weed only three times and otherwise drinks little, despite playing many drug‑addicted characters.
First cannabis experience tied to role in Savages[1:29:22]
• While rehearsing Oliver Stone's "Savages," Stone offered him medicinal weed; Kitsch instead tried some beforehand at the Shangri‑La hotel via a water bong, an intense way to start given he'd never used cannabis before.

Emotional hangover from Bang Bang Club and Waco

Nightmares and losing himself in Kevin Carter[1:31:42]
• In South Africa, playing photographer Kevin Carter, he had severe nightmares and realized he didn't yet understand his process, essentially becoming the traumatized character and struggling to shed him afterward.
Six‑month David Koresh prep and nearly quitting[1:14:17]
• For "Waco" he had six months of prep and almost pulled out near the end because he was hoarding dark energy; his manager urged him to wait a day and he eventually realized he had to stop judging Koresh and instead seek to understand his trauma.

Cult dynamics, Waco specifics, and brain-altering experiences

Koresh's manipulation tactics and recruitment

Memorizing the Bible and using "Bible speak"[1:20:10]
• Koresh memorized the Bible by age 15 and, when cornered by child protective services, negotiators, or theologians, would launch into dense, apocalyptic Bible monologues that no one could seriously rebut, effectively trumping arguments.
Recruiting through debates and tapes[1:21:50]
• He debated theologians at Oxford, winning arguments that led students to join him; he also mailed letters and tapes as far as Australia, convincing people to move to Texas.
"New light" revelation restricting sexual access[1:22:22]
• Kitsch recounts Koresh announcing a "new light" after allegedly speaking with God: only he would sleep with the women; some members left in protest, but many stayed.

ATF, Ruby Ridge, and tactical choices at Waco

ATF needing a "win" after Ruby Ridge[1:25:52]
• Kitsch says ATF was about to be defunded and had mishandled Ruby Ridge; they saw Koresh-selling homemade bulletproof vests and ammunition, with many kids on site-as an opportunity for a big, publicized operation.
Spectacle raid vs simple arrest[1:26:16]
• Koresh later wondered on tape why they didn't arrest him during his regular runs or outings instead of staging a militarized raid; Kitsch notes they deliberately chose a spectacle.
Fire, denied fire trucks, and ATF flag[1:27:05]
• He asserts that fire trucks were blocked from putting out the blaze, that disturbing animal‑torture sounds were blasted into the compound, and that agents flew an ATF flag while the building burned.

Dick DeGuerin's visit and Koresh hiding in a piano

Lawyer entering via tank[1:29:48]
• Koresh's attorney Dick DeGuerin was brought to the front door in a tank during the siege, walked through the compound, saw bullet holes and bodies ATF wouldn't let them move, and told them they had a case.
Revelation that Koresh listened from inside a piano[1:30:34]
• After DeGuerin left, Koresh's right‑hand man revealed that Koresh had been hiding inside a large piano against the foyer wall, listening to every word-a detail Kitsch badly wanted to include in the show.

Other cults, Holy Hell, and endogenous psychedelics

Joe's near‑purchase of Koresh's car and a cult theater[1:18:03]
• Rogan considered buying Koresh's 1968 Camaro but backed out over its "energy"; he also nearly bought the One World Theater in Austin, later learning it was built by a cult leader featured in the documentary "Holy Hell."
The "knowing" and possible brain chemistry triggers[1:21:15]
• He describes the cult leader granting followers a ritual called "the knowing" by placing hands on their heads; even after denouncing him as a fraud, many ex‑members still describe the experience as the most profound, loving connection to God they've ever felt.
Kundalini yoga and DMT‑like states[1:22:49]
• Rogan recounts a friend who practiced Kundalini yoga intensely and claimed he could reach a full psychedelic, DMT‑like state through breathwork and movement alone, supporting the idea that the brain can be tricked into releasing powerful chemicals.

Father, bagpipes, death, and family reconnection

Memories of his alcoholic, bagpipe‑playing father

Bagpipes as a core childhood memory[1:50:11]
• Kitsch's dad, nicknamed "Gooey," was an alcoholic but a skilled bagpiper who played at world championships in Scotland and at funerals in Barbados; Taylor remembers childhood Christmases where his father would come upstairs and silence the room playing pipes.

Shaman's dream and last visit

Shaman foresees a looming loss[1:58:41]
• While driving to see his critically ill father in Kelowna, his shaman texted that he'd had a dream Kitsch was about to lose someone; when Taylor called, they realized it was about his father, and the shaman set up an altar and predicted a difficult crossing.
Father lucid as all three sons reunite[1:59:03]
• Despite early‑onset dementia, his father was sharply lucid when all three sons visited-something the doctor said often happens when family gathers for the first time in decades, before a steep decline.

Playing pipes at the hospital and dark humor

Hospital courtyard piping and emotional impact[1:55:09]
• Kitsch hired a piper through his assistant; the piper played "Amazing Grace" and other tunes in the hospital courtyard, waking his father, who then requested a song for his mother-signaling he understood he was about to see her.
Weekend at Bernie's moment with the hospital bed[1:56:50]
• While maneuvering his father's bed up a sharp wheelchair ramp corner, they got stuck and realized his limp arm was jammed painfully against the rail; their dark humor led them to joke about a "Weekend at Bernie's" scene while gently backing up and freeing it.

Funeral, bagpipers, and reconciling with brothers

Piper who once played beside his father[2:04:06]
• At the funeral, one of the pipers told Kitsch he had played next to his dad at the 1995 world championships, an emotional coincidence; the man played more of his father's favorite songs in the church gym.
Being the only one to speak and healing rift[2:06:41]
• When the priest invited speeches, silence fell; prompted by his aunt's hand squeeze, Taylor spoke about the silver lining that his father's death had reunited all three brothers, who are now on good terms.
Using the experience to reassess life[2:03:04]
• The loss, combined with playing a mourning character in "American Primeval" and doing sweats afterwards, knocked him into six months of questioning whether he was doing enough with his life and helped him mourn properly.

Hollywood, critics vs audiences, and Terminal List / Dark Wolf

Charlie Sheen, Apocalypse Now, and Platoon

Childhood on Apocalypse Now set and early fame[1:39:41]
• They discuss Rogan's recent interview with Charlie Sheen, who was 10 on the "Apocalypse Now" set in the Philippines and 20 when he starred in "Platoon"-a trajectory with no blueprint, followed by years of extreme drug use and eventual sobriety.
Sheen's crack use and survival[1:41:21]
• Rogan recounts Sheen smoking crack while being fellated the first time he tried it, later using ice cubes up his rectum to jolt himself awake on set, and notes how remarkable it is he didn't die after decades of abuse.

Mel Gibson, Braveheart, and Apocalypto

Braveheart as formative epic[1:48:10]
• Kitsch says he'd love to have been on the set of "Braveheart"; he later had dinner with Gibson, who told stories of riding horses between cameras and almost falling asleep standing from exhaustion.
Apocalypto's achievement[1:48:58]
• Rogan praises "Apocalypto" as a blockbuster with no English dialogue and no big stars that still works brilliantly, using mostly local non‑actors.

Adam Sandler movies and critics vs audience split

Sandler as beloved comedic and serious actor[1:54:36]
• They highlight how critics consistently pan Sandler's goofy comedies while audiences love them, and note his dramatic turn in "Uncut Gems" as anxiety‑inducing and brilliant.
Critic reviews vs what people actually enjoy[1:55:15]
• Rogan notes that negative reviews still steer him away from some films but that word of mouth and audience reception often override critics, as with Sandler or "Terminal List."

Taylor avoiding reviews and online vitriol

Choosing not to read reviews[2:05:01]
• Kitsch says he no longer reads reviews after learning the hard way that online commentary can be viciously personal, with people saying the world would be better if he'd never been born.
Friday Night Lights in a pre‑social‑media era[2:06:11]
• He recalls the creative freedom on "Friday Night Lights" when there were few reviews, no social media noise, and minimal producer presence on set-just "slinging" scenes and trying things.

Terminal List, Dark Wolf, and Jack Carr

Critics hammer Terminal List, fans propel spin‑off[2:33:54]
• Kitsch notes that season one of "The Terminal List" was slammed by critics but loved by audiences, which is why "Dark Wolf"-Ben Edwards' origin story-exists and is currently number one on Amazon.
Jack Carr's unique path from SEAL to bestselling author[2:34:26]
• Rogan describes Carr's life plan: become a SEAL, gain combat experience, then write; Carr is a voracious reader and history buff whose first book "The Terminal List" was extraordinarily polished because he'd prepared for it his whole life.
On‑set authenticity with SEAL advisors[2:36:14]
• Kitsch appreciates notes from Carr, Jared Shaw, Ray Mendoza, and an Army Ranger writer on weapons handling and behavior-if anything feels inauthentic, their "bullshit meter" is right there helping him correct it.

Moral gray zones and Ben Edwards' twist

Rooting Ben's betrayal as mercy[2:39:10]
• Kitsch rooted Ben Edwards' orchestration of a deadly op-betraying Reece's platoon-in the idea that he's giving his terminally ill friend the chance to "die with his boots on" instead of rotting in a hospital bed.
SEAL reactions and accountability[2:40:25]
• At the Mike Murphy museum opening, some SEALs told him they understood Ben's choice; he emphasizes that Ben accepts full accountability, willingly losing his trident and stating he would do it again-illustrating how gray real decisions can be.

Montana, nature, LA vs Austin, and closing reflections

Mountains, perspective, and anti‑boredom

Mountains as a daily perspective reset[2:44:11]
• They describe Montana and other mountain regions as humbling and awe‑inspiring, giving perspective and presence; Kitsch says if he's bored there, it's his own fault given the endless hikes, wildlife, and national parks.
Nature as a decompression tool after heavy roles[2:45:11]
• After intense shoots, he goes back to Bozeman, jumps on a bike or goes fly fishing, and finds it a "beautiful thing" for his brain, in contrast to the non‑stop buzz of cities.

LA's decline vs Austin's and Montana's appeal

LA losing its film centrality[2:45:56]
• They marvel that so little is filmed in LA now despite its mountains, beaches, and studios; Rogan calls LA a "terrible way to live" with insane traffic, whereas Austin and Montana feel more livable and human.
Austin and $35 protein shakes[2:46:03]
• Kitsch jokes about buying a $35 protein shake in Austin after adding extra ingredients, contrasting such urban absurdities with simpler Montana life.

Transactional culture in LA vs normal people elsewhere

LA's networking mindset[2:46:43]
• Rogan says in LA everyone wants something from you-every relationship is a potential asset, from wannabe actors to influencers-whereas Austin and Montana are full of more "normal" people.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Deliberate over-preparation is one of the most effective antidotes to self-doubt when you face high-stakes situations, whether it's a combat role, a business launch, or a physical challenge.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your life are you currently relying on talent or luck instead of doing the kind of deep preparation that would make you genuinely confident?
  • • How would your mindset change if you approached your next big project the way an elite athlete approaches a championship fight or a SEAL approaches a mission?
  • • What is one upcoming situation you're nervous about, and what concrete prep routine could you design this week to reduce that anxiety by 50%?
2

Supporting someone through addiction often requires radical transparency, persistence through repeated setbacks, and sometimes changing their environment entirely rather than expecting willpower alone to save them.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in your life might need more honest, judgment-free conversations about their substance use or self-destructive habits?
  • • In what ways might you be expecting someone to recover in the same environment that's been poisoning them, and how could you help create a different context?
  • • What boundary or support structure could you put in place this month to protect your own well-being while still being there for someone who is struggling?
3

Comfort is seductive but can quietly erode your edge; intentionally pursuing difficult, meaningful challenges keeps you engaged, humble, and growing.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which parts of your current routine feel like comfortable autopilot, and how might those be dulling your ambition or creativity?
  • • How could you introduce one strenuous physical, mental, or creative challenge into the next 30 days that would force you to level up?
  • • When you look back a year from now, what is one comfort you would regret having indulged instead of doing something harder but more meaningful?
4

If your work demands deep emotional immersion, you also need deliberate rituals and practices-like time in nature, movement, or symbolic letting-go-to return to yourself and avoid being consumed by the role.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What aspects of your job or creative work tend to bleed into your mood, sleep, or relationships more than is healthy?
  • • How might you design a simple post-work ritual-a walk, journaling, a workout, a drive-that signals to your brain it's time to release the day?
  • • The next time you finish a particularly intense project, what specific decompression practices could you schedule in advance so you don't just "white-knuckle" the aftermath?
5

People's choices-especially in extreme environments like war, crime, or cults-often live in moral gray zones; understanding context and psychology doesn't excuse harm but does lead to better judgment and wiser decisions.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where have you been quick to label someone as simply "good" or "bad" without really understanding the pressures and incentives they were under?
  • • How could recognizing the gray areas in a current conflict you're involved in help you respond more strategically rather than emotionally?
  • • What is one situation from your past that still bothers you, and how might re-examining the context and constraints on everyone involved change the story you tell yourself about it?

Episode Summary - Notes by Blake

#2381 - Taylor Kitsch
0:00 0:00