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The Mel Robbins Podcast

World Leading Therapist: Why You Feel Stuck in Life & How to Get Unstuck

with Lori Gottlieb

Published November 24, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Mel Robbins interviews psychotherapist and author Lori Gottlieb about how the stories people tell themselves shape their emotions, relationships, and life choices. They explore how these often-unconscious narratives are formed, how they keep people stuck in patterns like self-doubt, anxiety, and people-pleasing, and how to begin editing and rewriting them. Through concrete examples and practical questions, Lori shows how changing your story can change how you relate to yourself and others.

Topics Covered

Self-talk Personal narrative Relationships Boundaries Anxiety Change and loss Friendship dynamics Romantic relationships Family patterns Therapy

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • You talk to yourself more than to anyone else, and the running story you tell yourself largely determines how you feel and act.
  • Most people want something in their lives to change but focus on changing others instead of examining their own role and narrative.
  • If a reaction is "hysterical," it is usually "historical"-big emotional reactions are often fueled by past experiences, not just the present moment.
  • We selectively notice evidence that confirms our painful stories (like "I'm not good enough" or "I can't trust anyone") and ignore counterexamples.
  • Effective self-talk must be kind, true, and useful; if a thought fails any of those three tests, it does not deserve your attention.
  • Real change always includes loss of the familiar, which is why even positive changes can feel unsettling or provoke grief.
  • Healthy boundaries are agreements you keep with yourself about what you will do, not rules you try to force others to follow.
  • Partners, friends, and family are constantly handing you an "owner's manual" for how to love them if you pay attention to their reactions and needs.
  • Curiosity about your own and others' backstories dissolves blame and opens the door to better conversations and connection.
  • You are the sole author of your life story; you can start changing it by choosing one unhelpful story and deliberately writing the next paragraph differently.

Podcast Notes

Intro: Self-talk and Life Stories

Mel introduces the idea of self-talk and personal narrative

You talk to yourself more than to anyone else[0:30]
• Mel asks who you think you talk to most (partner, friends, parents) and then points out it's actually yourself
Common negative stories people repeat to themselves[0:23]
• Examples: "It's never good enough", "I'm never good enough", "I'm not lovable", "I'm not smart enough", "I always screw things up", "It's never going to work out for me"
• Mel notes that repeating these thoughts daily makes them feel like facts even though they are just stories
Promise of the episode: you can rewrite your story[1:17]
• Mel says you have the power to edit and rewrite the story you've been telling yourself
• She calls changing your story a "scientific fact", not just a catchy idea
• The current story keeps you stuck in self-doubt, anxiety, people-pleasing, and overwhelm and blocks your potential

Introduction of guest Lori Gottlieb and the authorship metaphor

Lori is framed as the guide to help you rewrite your story[1:17]
• Mel introduces Lori as a world-renowned therapist who wrote a bestselling book about changing your story
You are the sole author of your future[1:44]
• Lori's core idea as quoted by Mel: your future is authored by you, not by your past, parents, partner, or friends

Guest Background and Episode Setup

Mel welcomes new and returning listeners and sets expectations

Mel expresses excitement and frames the episode as an opportunity to learn from Lori[5:26]
• She personally welcomes new listeners or those who had the episode shared with them

Lori Gottlieb's background and credentials

Professional roles and accomplishments[5:40]
• Renowned psychotherapist and influential voice in mental health and mindset
• Author of "Maybe You Should Talk to Someone", a New York Times bestseller that sold over 3 million copies and was translated into more than 30 languages
• Writer of the "Ask the Therapist" column in the New York Times
• Host of two podcasts: "Dear Therapists" and "Since You Asked"
Educational and career background[6:13]
• Degrees from Stanford and Pepperdine
• Before becoming a therapist, she attended medical school and had a career as a journalist
Lori's lifelong draw to stories[6:15]
• She has always been drawn to stories and how they're told and says today she is here to help you rewrite yours

Core Human Struggle: Wanting Others to Change

Mel asks how life will be different if listeners apply Lori's teachings

Lori predicts profound changes in how you move through the world[7:17]
• She says you will change how you relate to family, friends, romantic partners, coworkers, and, most importantly, to yourself
• The tools are usable immediately, not "later"; you can start doing something now that makes you feel differently about yourself

The common pattern: the problem is always "over there"

People want to feel better but want someone else to change[8:32]
• Lori says that whether people come to her clinical practice, write to her New York Times column, or podcast, the theme is the same: they want change but focus on another person as the problem
Therapists see this pattern in themselves too[8:45]
• In her own book, Lori is the fifth patient and initially comes to therapy pointing to another person as the problem
Difficult people exist, but they're not the whole story[9:22]
• Lori notes there are truly difficult people and jokes that "before diagnosing someone with depression, make sure they aren't surrounded by assholes"
• Even so, we all have a role in what keeps us stuck and in our relational difficulties

What is a "Story" and How It Shapes Relationships

Defining a personal story

Stories are built from past and present experiences and beliefs[9:38]
• Stories come from what we were taught or acquired along the way
• They are often faulty, incomplete, or misguided; we are leaving so much out
How narrative determines life quality[10:00]
• The way we narrate our lives determines the quality of our lives and how we'll live them
• Therapy is largely about examining and editing these stories

The "dance" metaphor for relationships

Conflict as a dance of patterns[11:59]
• Lori describes every relationship as a dance, where both people contribute steps to the pattern
• If you change your dance steps, the other person must either fall off the dance floor or change their steps too
Mel reflects on feeling like the other person is "leading"[12:27]
• Thinking of a difficult person as a dance partner helps you see you can take the lead and alter the interaction

Illustrative Story: Suspected Infidelity vs Unseen Grief

Wife's story: husband is cheating

Her narrative is filtered through childhood trauma[13:25]
• A woman writes that her husband is cheating because he has late-night calls with a coworker and seems distant
• Her father cheated on her mother with a coworker and abandoned the family, so she sees the current situation as repeating that story

Husband's story: unprocessed grief and lack of support

He is grieving his father's death and can't share it with his wife[14:33]
• He writes that his father died the previous year and he is deeply shaken
• He feels his wife thinks he should have "moved forward" and doesn't understand the depth of his loss
• He connects with a female coworker who also lost her father; he insists it's a platonic friendship that lets him talk about his grief
• He says what's sad is that he can't talk to his wife and that he misses her

Shared underlying story: longing for connection

Both partners want closeness but their stories block them[15:44]
• Her story is about a cheating husband; his story is about grief he can't share, yet both are longing to connect with each other
Personalizing vs understanding someone else's story[17:23]
• If you can't see the other person's story, you personalize their behavior and respond in ways that make things worse

Another Example: The "Obnoxious" Patient John

Initial impression of John

He appears narcissistic and insulting[18:09]
• He constantly complains that "all the idiots" are the problem and insults people at home, at work, and even the therapist

Deeper story behind his behavior

He formed a protective role after family trauma[19:15]
• His story is that he must be the rock and the solid one due to earlier family trauma
• He actually cares deeply about his wife and family and desperately wants to love and be loved but does not know how
Reader reactions change as his story is revealed[20:43]
• Readers initially despise him but later say they want to hug him and he becomes their favorite character in Lori's book

How Stories Form: Labels from Childhood and Global Beliefs

Many people don't realize they are carrying a story

Therapy often reveals unconscious ideas and beliefs[21:52]
• People come to therapy and are surprised by how many beliefs about themselves they didn't know they held

Examples of childhood labels that become stories

Being labeled "too sensitive"[22:03]
• A "sensitive" child may actually be a keen observer who notices and cares about feelings others deny
• Families may call this child the problem because they highlight issues others don't want to see; in therapy this is called the "identified patient"
• That child grows up avoiding expressing needs, fearing they'll be seen as too much or too difficult and ends up letting people walk over them
Being labeled "lazy"[24:54]
• A child called lazy may simply not be interested in the narrow things the family values, like academic achievement or elite schools
• They may actually be creative or excellent at connecting with people, but internalize a belief that they lack drive or capability
• As adults they hesitate to pursue passions because it feels "out of character" with the lazy label they've adopted

We try to keep our character consistent with the old script

People self-sabotage to match the story[26:47]
• Like readers expecting fictional characters to behave consistently, we unconsciously block actions that don't fit our self-story
• This mechanism keeps us aligned with stories like "I'm lazy" or "I'm too sensitive" even when reality suggests otherwise

Recognizing Your Story: Emotional Reactivity and Key Questions

Using intense reactions as clues: "If it's hysterical, it's historical"

Big reactions often indicate old material[27:58]
• If your reaction to a current situation is disproportionately big (0 to 60), part of it likely comes from past experiences, not just the present event
• Lori uses the thermostat analogy: if it's 80 degrees, it's uncomfortable, but if it feels like 95 "inside," your emotional thermostat is off

Central self-reflection question therapists wish people used

Question part one: familiarity[29:41]
• Ask: "Is there something about what I'm experiencing right now that feels familiar?"
Question part two: adult agency[29:41]
• Follow up with: "As an adult, what can I do differently with this feeling?"
• These questions help separate present triggers from past patterns and open new responses

Case Study: Misreading Friendships and Wedding Invitations

Woman's story: being excluded and dumped by friends

She interprets missed wedding invites as rejection[32:04]
• A woman feels devastated when two close high school friends don't invite her to their weddings, even though she invited them to hers
• She sees a wedding invitation at a friend's house and concludes they don't want to be friends

Lori's reframing: look at the full data, not just the painful parts

Evidence she ignored that contradicts her story[33:41]
• The friends take time to visit her from out of town and stay in touch, which suggests they do value the friendship
• They couldn't attend her wedding when invited; at the time she didn't see it as rejection, but later rewrote that event to support a "they don't like me" story
Counterexamples and the human negativity bias[35:08]
• Lori encourages looking for counterexamples: instances where the feared story is not true
• She notes people are drawn to negative evidence and "doom scroll" through things that make them feel bad
• In reality, weddings are complex and guest lists tricky; you can be a valued friend and still not be invited

Idiot compassion vs wise compassion

Definition of idiot compassion[37:14]
• Idiot compassion: you avoid rocking the boat, agree with someone's story, and spare feelings even when honesty would be more helpful
• It shows up with teenagers, spouses, addicts, and ourselves when we simply validate without examining
Definition of wise compassion[38:11]
• Wise compassion means caring about the person but offering a loving truth bomb when needed
• Therapy models wise compassion by holding up a mirror to someone's contribution to their problems

Helping Friends: From Comforting to Truth-telling

How friends often respond: supporting the victim story

Typical friend response reinforces blame of others[39:42]
• When someone complains about a boss, partner, or parent, friends often say, "You're right, they're wrong" instead of examining the person's own role

Example: friend who keeps getting dumped

Patterns friends see but don't say[40:44]
• A client says partners keep breaking up with her; friends tell her she deserves someone great and is wonderful
• But friends actually know she looks through their phones, texts excessively, and is terrified of abandonment-behaviors that contribute to breakups
How to offer wise compassion in friendships[42:14]
• Ask, "What do you think was going on for him, given there was so much he liked about you?" to prompt reflection on the other side
• Frame observations gently, such as asking if frequent texting might feel smothering, instead of labeling them clingy

Unknowing Yourself and the Core Human Story

Unknowing vs knowing yourself

Why unknowing is necessary[43:45]
• Culture encourages journaling and meditating to "know yourself", but Lori says you must first "unknow" the inherited and limiting stories
• She suggests starting with a blank page and listing what you think you know about yourself (e.g., "I'm very sensitive", "I'm too much", "I'm lazy")

The ultimate theme behind most stories: love and being loved

Different surface stories share the same core[45:42]
• Stories like "I'm not good enough" or "I'm not smart enough" carry the subtext "and therefore I'm not going to be loved"
• Lori says at bottom everyone is trying to figure out how to love and be loved

Exercises to Challenge Stories: "I Can't Trust Anyone" and "I'm Not Good Enough"

Exercise for "I can't trust anyone"

Identify even a few counterexamples[51:55]
• On one side of the page write the story ("I can't trust anyone"); on the other side list times when you did trust someone and they were trustworthy
• If a client insists there is no one, Lori asks if they trust her; if so, that's one counterexample
• Another example might be a college advisor they confided in who helped them
Using new awareness to choose a better audience[52:15]
• Once you see there are trustworthy people, the story shifts from "I can't trust anyone" to "I need to choose more trustworthy people"
• You then act more intentionally about whom you confide in and test trust in small steps over time

Exercise for "I'm not good enough"

Notice how you globalize from specific failures[54:00]
• People often generalize from events like not making a team or missing an opportunity to a global identity of not being good enough
List specific instances where you were good enough[55:19]
• On the other side of the paper, write down even small examples where you did get something you wanted or something worked out
• Lori emphasizes that stories are not "always or never"; you must include the full range of plot points, not just failures
Adopting a different framework going forward[56:40]
• She suggests assuming you are good enough as a starting point and noticing when evidence contradicts the old story

Self-talk: The Person You Talk to Most and the Three-Question Filter

Realizing you talk to yourself more than anyone else

Most people misidentify their primary conversational partner[56:52]
• When asked, people say it's a spouse or coworker, but Lori points out it's actually themselves

Client exercise: writing down self-talk

Discovering the inner bully[58:04]
• A client who thought she wasn't self-critical was asked to write down everything she said to herself for a week
• When she read it back, she cried and called herself a bully after seeing harsh comments like "You look terrible" and "I'm so stupid" over small things

The three-question filter: kind, true, useful

How to vet your thoughts[59:44]
• Ask of any thought: Is it kind? Is it true? Is it useful?
• If a thought such as "I'm not good enough" fails any of these tests, it does not belong in your story
• Even if you are unsure whether it's true, if it's not kind or useful it should be discarded
Why bad stories are dangerous[1:02:08]
• Keeping faulty narratives leads you to choose people who corroborate them and to misinterpret events through a distorted lens

Change and Loss: Why Change Feels So Hard

Every positive change includes loss

The certainty of misery vs misery of uncertainty[1:06:22]
• Lori quotes the idea that "the certainty of misery is better than the misery of uncertainty" to explain why people cling to familiar but bad situations

We marry our unfinished business

Repeating family patterns in adult relationships[1:07:35]
• People often choose partners who resemble early caregivers in problematic ways (e.g., emotional distance, addiction, avoidance) to unconsciously master old helpless situations
• The familiar dynamic "feels like home," even if it's painful, unless you process and consciously choose a different kind of home

Grieving the Old While Creating the New

New Year's resolutions as an example of ignored grief

People underestimate the loss of old habits[1:09:20]
• When someone decides to exercise and live healthier, they are also giving up a familiar lifestyle and comforts, which provokes grief

Talking to different parts of yourself

Allowing grief and ambivalence[1:10:14]
• Lori has clients speak from different "parts" (e.g., part that wants to leave a marriage vs part that wants to stay) sometimes even using separate chairs
• Giving these parts air releases pressure and helps prevent acting impulsively on them

Example of Mel grieving a major move

Ritual to express both loss and resistance to the new[1:00:06]
• Mel describes an exercise from her therapist: stopping halfway between cities, facing back toward Boston to voice everything she was losing and angry about, then turning toward Vermont to speak fears and resistance about the new life
• She repeated this process until the emotional "valve" was released enough that she could keep driving forward without wanting to turn back

Complex Feelings and Shame

Normalizing complicated emotions

Feeling like a "scumbag" for certain thoughts[1:03:22]
• Lori says many letters to her podcast are essentially "tell me I'm not a scumbag" letters where people feel ashamed of their feelings
• She emphasizes that having complicated feelings is normal and means you are fully engaged in your humanity

Analogy with children's anger

Validate feelings but set limits on behavior[1:04:47]
• Parents should say "It's okay to be angry, it's not okay to hit your brother" instead of "Don't be angry"
• Similarly, adults need to acknowledge feelings like wanting an affair or rage at parents without shaming themselves, then decide what to do with those feelings

Change, Responsibility, and the Prison Bars Metaphor

The cartoon of the prisoner and open sides

Feeling trapped vs taking responsibility[1:06:22]
• Lori's therapist shared an image of a prisoner shaking bars in front, desperate to escape, while the sides are open
• Walking around the bars represents accepting responsibility, which also means accepting the need to change

Finding your "why" for change

A one-sentence reason anchors new behaviors[1:08:05]
• Lori suggests a simple statement like "I make my bed every morning because it makes me feel better and calmer in my space"
• When change feels hard, you remember your why instead of focusing on external pressure or perfection

Anxiety as a Story about Past or Future

Anxiety keeps you out of the present

Anxious thinking is future- or past-focused storytelling[1:12:20]
• Lori says anxiety means you're operating in the past or future, telling yourself catastrophic stories, instead of staying with what's actually happening now
Shifting from narrative to action[1:12:57]
• Rather than spinning stories like "my boss hates me" or "everyone is talking about me", ask "What can I do about this now?"

The "Owner's Manual" for Partners

Partners are constantly showing you how they operate

Learning from reactions instead of assuming sameness[1:13:28]
• One partner might find a hand on their shoulder calming in conflict, while another finds it inappropriate; both are clues to their owner's manual
• Some people want many questions about their day when they get home; others need 15 minutes alone before talking
Long relationships still require curiosity[1:16:09]
• Even after years together, you can't assume you fully know your partner's owner's manual; you must keep asking and noticing

Listener Question: Nagging and Searching for Problems

Kaylee's situation: constant nagging and criticism of partner

Her pattern and its impact[1:16:48]
• Kaylee says she finds herself nagging her partner, searching for problems, and he feels attacked and guarded, which escalates conflict

Lori's response: ask where she learned to handle disappointment this way

Requests vs complaints[1:17:54]
• A request sounds like "When there are dishes in the sink, could you put them in the dishwasher?"
• A complaint sounds like "You never do the dishes; you're such a slob" and makes the other person feel bad and defensive
Curious questions as alternatives to nagging[1:18:58]
• Lori suggests asking "I'm wondering why..." about behaviors (e.g., why he doesn't do laundry or walk the dog) to open up underlying issues instead of attacking

Practical Conflict Skills: Avoiding Kitchen Sink Fighting

Kitchen sink fighting defined

Piling every grievance into one argument[1:20:39]
• Instead of sticking to the current issue (e.g., dishes), people bring up laundry, dog care, past hurts, and everything that ever disappointed them

How to reduce kitchen sink fights

Pick your battles and build in a pause[1:21:56]
• When upset, take 15-30 minutes to walk or cool down before deciding whether the issue is important enough to raise
• If after that time it still matters, bring it up that day and only discuss that one issue rather than an accumulated list of 10 problems

Healthy Boundaries: Agreements with Yourself

Misunderstanding boundaries as controlling others

Example of a boundary with a critical parent[1:23:13]
• You might say to a mother, "If you comment on my appearance or my boyfriend, I'm going to end the conversation"

True boundaries are about your behavior, not theirs

You enforce the consequence consistently[1:24:31]
• When the parent comments again, you calmly say, "It was so fun being with you, but I don't like the comments about my appearance. Talk to you later" and end the interaction
• For boundaries to work, you must follow through 100% of the time; 98% consistency is not enough
Check if your boundary is reasonable[1:26:14]
• Lori notes some "boundaries" are unrealistic, such as expecting a partner to be perfect or to regulate all your emotions for you

Listener Question: Parent Worried about an Adult Child's Partner

Mother concerned about daughter's boyfriend

Summary of the situation[1:26:43]
• The daughter, a successful medical student, has a partner with a traumatic past who barely speaks with the family; the mother sees her daughter tiptoeing around him and fears she is in a rescuer role

Lori's guidance to parents in this position

Accept the daughter is not yet ready to leave[1:28:00]
• If she were ready to end the relationship, she would; trying to force it can backfire and push her closer to him and away from you
Be the narrator, not the judge[1:28:31]
• Instead of criticizing the boyfriend, say neutral observations like "That seemed really hard" and then stop, letting the daughter process
• Invite the daughter to re-engage in activities she used to love (e.g., museums, reading) and let her notice the contrast herself
• Engage the boyfriend directly in conversation when he's around so the daughter can see how he responds, rather than silently accommodating his withdrawal
• Exception: if the situation is dangerous or abusive, parents may need to act differently and more directly

Final Action: Rewrite One Unhelpful Story

Choose one story that is not serving you

Identify the specific narrative to work on[1:31:36]
• Lori asks listeners to think of one story they're telling themselves right now-about themselves or someone else-that is not serving them

Write the next paragraph of your story

Make a small but intentional edit[1:33:04]
• She suggests not worrying about the next 20 pages, just the next paragraph that would be more aligned with the life you want
• Ask: What edit do I need to make to this story so that this new paragraph is possible?

Closing: You Are the Sole Author of Your Life

Lori's obituary metaphor

Finite time makes authorship urgent[1:35:44]
• Lori notes that a story will be written about everyone in the form of an obituary, so you should write your story now while alive
• She stresses you are the sole author; your life is not co-written by parents, partners, or culture

Invitation to write the first sentence

Start small and let it build[1:35:56]
• She encourages listeners to ask "What is the story that I want to write?" and then simply write the next sentence today
• She says that one sentence will lead to the next and eventually to a "masterpiece of a life" that is unique and imperfectly beautiful

Legal Disclaimer and Mel's Closing Encouragement

Mel clarifies her role and the nature of the podcast

Educational and entertainment purposes only[1:37:31]
• Mel states she is not a licensed therapist and the podcast is not a substitute for advice from a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

The stories you tell yourself-about who you are, what others are like, and how the world works-quietly govern your emotions and choices, but they are incomplete narratives that you can examine, edit, and rewrite.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is one recurring story I tell myself (about myself or someone else) that consistently makes me feel small, stuck, or hopeless?
  • • How might my life look different over the next year if I deliberately rewrote that story to include all the evidence I usually ignore?
  • • What specific 10-minute block this week can I set aside to write down my current story and sketch a more helpful next paragraph for it?
2

Big emotional reactions are often less about the present situation and more about old experiences they awaken; noticing this lets you respond as an adult instead of reenacting the past.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time I went from 0 to 60 emotionally, and what about that situation felt strangely familiar?
  • • How could pausing to ask "Is this about now, or also about then?" change the way I handle similar triggers in the future?
  • • What is one recurring conflict (at home or work) where I can experiment with taking a short pause before responding so I can choose a different reaction?
3

Your self-talk needs to be kind, true, and useful; if a thought fails any of those tests, it is not a reliable guide and should not be allowed to dictate your behavior.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is one harsh sentence I say to myself regularly that would never pass the kind/true/useful test if I said it to a friend?
  • • How might my confidence and relationships change if I committed to challenging any thought that is unkind or not useful, even when it feels familiar?
  • • What is one specific phrase I can replace a recurring self-criticism with that feels kinder and more accurate, and when will I practice using it next?
4

Healthy boundaries are not about forcing others to change; they are about deciding what you will do when your reasonable requests are ignored and then consistently following through.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my life do I keep waiting for someone else to respect a boundary I've never clearly defined or consistently enforced?
  • • How could reframing a boundary from "you must not do X" to "if X happens, I will do Y" give me more clarity and control?
  • • What is one simple, reasonable boundary I can articulate this week and one specific action I will take if it is crossed?
5

Real change always comes with some loss of the familiar, so acknowledging and grieving what you are giving up makes it easier to move forward instead of unconsciously sabotaging yourself.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What comfort, habit, or identity am I secretly afraid of losing if I follow through on a change I say I want?
  • • In what ways could intentionally naming and honoring that loss (instead of denying it) reduce my resistance to the change?
  • • What small ritual or conversation could I create this week to say goodbye to an old pattern that no longer serves me?
6

Curiosity about both your own and others' backstories-rather than quick blame-opens the door to better conversations, empathy, and more workable solutions in relationships.

Reflection Questions:

  • • With whom in my life do I most often assume bad intent instead of wondering what story might be driving their behavior?
  • • How could asking "What might be going on for them?" before reacting change the tone of our next difficult interaction?
  • • What is one relationship where I can try asking an open-ended, non-judgmental question this week instead of offering criticism or silent resentment?

Episode Summary - Notes by Kendall

World Leading Therapist: Why You Feel Stuck in Life & How to Get Unstuck
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