Mayo Clinic Cancer Doctor: 5 Foods That Heal the Body, Starve Cancer, & Prevent Disease

with Dr. Dawn Musalem

Published October 23, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Mel Robbins interviews double-board certified Mayo Clinic physician and integrative oncologist Dr. Dawn Musalem about how lifestyle choices like food, movement, sleep, stress, and love affect cancer risk and outcomes. Dr. Musalem shares research-backed guidance on cancer-fighting and cancer-promoting foods, the impact of exercise, fiber, and sleep on metabolic and cancer health, and why ultra-processed foods and certain additives increase disease risk. She also weaves in her personal story as a stage 4 cancer survivor and heart transplant recipient, offering perspective on acceptance, hope, and finding meaning after a life-changing diagnosis.

Topics Covered

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Diet is a major driver of chronic disease in the U.S., and food was described as the leading cause of death, largely due to ultra-processed products crowding out protective whole foods.
  • Even small increases in vegetables, fruits, beans, and other fiber-rich plant foods can significantly reduce the risk of developing and dying from several cancers and heart disease.
  • Exercise during and after cancer treatment can improve survival rates dramatically, with data suggesting up to about 50% improvement in outcomes for breast cancer survivors who stay active.
  • Soy foods like edamame do not cause breast cancer; human data show they are protective, can reduce recurrence and mortality, and even greatly reduce hot flashes while improving mood and libido.
  • Most Americans, including cancer patients, are severely deficient in fiber and plant foods, yet increasing fiber intake is supported by high-level evidence to reduce all-cause, cardiovascular, and some cancer mortality.
  • Ultra-processed foods and specific additives such as mono- and diglycerides and carrageenan are associated with higher risks of breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers, and should be minimized.
  • Adequate sleep (7-9 hours) and maintaining muscle mass are critical for metabolic health, blood sugar control, and resilience during and after cancer treatment.
  • Refusing evidence-based cancer therapies in favor of alternatives alone is associated with dramatically higher mortality compared with combining conventional treatment with healthy lifestyle changes.
  • Acceptance of a diagnosis, cultivating love for self and others, and seeking awe and meaning help patients move from fear to empowered action.
  • It is never too late to benefit from lifestyle improvements; adopting healthier habits even in one's 60s or 80s can add meaningful years of life and improve cancer outcomes.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and episode overview

Mel previews the focus on food, lifestyle, and cancer

Episode will teach how to heal the body, starve cancer, and prevent disease with food and lifestyle[0:22]
Mel promises discussion of top cancer-fighting foods, foods to avoid, and how to make healthy eating easy
Guest introduction: Dr. Dawn Musalem[4:06]
She is a double-board certified physician at Mayo Clinic, the first cancer doctor on the podcast
Her colleagues call her "the magic bullet" due to her patient results using traditional medicine plus lifestyle changes
She founded Mayo's Integrative Medicine and Breast Health Program and trains doctors in lifestyle medicine
She is a stage 4 cancer survivor and a heart transplant recipient

Setting intentions and hope for listeners

Invitation to listeners

Dr. Musalem wants each listener to be awakened to their aliveness, unapologetically[6:15]
She hopes to move people from a place of hope to a place of knowing they can flourish despite adversity

Dr. Dawn Musalem's cancer diagnosis and early medical journey

Initial symptoms and dismissal by doctors

A few months into medical school, she felt unwell for the first time in her life despite a very healthy lifestyle[7:48]
She had been very athletic, climbing Camelback Mountain twice a day, but suddenly found it hard
First three doctors misdiagnosed or dismissed her concerns[7:57]
Doctor 1 said she had adult asthma and prescribed an inhaler without listening closely
Doctor 2 told her to use the inhaler more, also without really listening
Doctor 3 told her it was all in her head and labeled it psychosomatic, common in medical students
Collapse and discovery of advanced cancer[8:43]
Days after being told it was in her head, she collapsed and went to the hospital in cardiogenic shock
Imaging showed a 16-centimeter mass wrapped around her heart and compressing major neck vessels
She underwent urgent surgery and was told the next day she had stage 4 cancer
Doctors told her she had three months to live without treatment and about 20 months with treatment

Emotional response and mindset after diagnosis

Instead of anger, she experienced a sense of grace and saw the diagnosis as containing a lesson[8:59]
She decided to stay in medical school, follow medical advice, and "show up" for herself
Background in naturopathy and wellness before medical school[11:14]
Before traditional medical school, she attended naturopathic school and studied exercise physiology and nutrition as an undergraduate
As a child she was obsessed with wellness and wanted to live to 100 years old

How the prognosis changed her perception of life

She mentally "tucked away" the three-month prognosis so it did not control her actions[13:28]
Hearing the prognosis elevated her experience of life: grass looked greener, clouds more voluminous, and the sun warmer
Example of deeper presence with others: conversation with a young homeless man[14:03]
After diagnosis, instead of rushing, she bought breakfast for a homeless 19-year-old at McDonald's and sat to talk with him
She says before cancer she would have grabbed her coffee and gone to study; the diagnosis prompted her to pause and be present
She describes his energy as very still and says he taught her about presence

Lifestyle during cancer treatment: exercise, food, mindset, and acceptance

Conventional treatment she accepted

She did not question the need for chemotherapy and later a bone marrow transplant because of the aggressiveness of her lymphoma and the era before newer immunotherapies[10:53]
At that time rituximab and similar immunotherapies were not available, so high-dose chemo and bone marrow transplant were standard

Exercise during chemotherapy and transplant

She maintained vitality by exercising gently even during hospitalization for a bone marrow transplant[13:38]
Her oncologist placed a bicycle in her room and at the nurses' station; she would get up at 4 a.m. to ride and watch the sunrise
She recalls sneaking out of her room, sliding the glass door, and seeing many patients lying still in bed while she was active and energized
Why she emphasizes movement for cancer patients[18:06]
She now tells patients, even if exhausted, to walk 5-10 minutes after each meal to use stress hormones and support treatment response
She notes exercise helps mood, reduces anxiety, and improves sleep in addition to influencing cancer outcomes
Research she cites on exercise and cancer[19:37]
In breast cancer, exercise can improve outcomes by almost 50%
A colorectal cancer study showed exercise appeared as favorable as chemotherapy for outcomes, though she stresses it should be combined with chemo, not replace it

Food as medicine during treatment

She continued a healthy diet despite chemotherapy side effects like metallic taste and mouth sores[20:23]
Because she personally experienced chemo side-effects, she can empathize and suggest practical food swaps for patients whose mouths hurt
Example: swapping a typical breakfast of scrambled eggs, cheese, white bread, butter, and turkey sausage for more plant-rich options still matching the patient's savory preferences

Attitude of acceptance rather than battle

She emphasizes acceptance of the diagnosis instead of "battling" cancer[21:36]
She dislikes language that someone "battled" cancer; for her the experience was marked more by grace and acceptance
She focused on what she could control (lifestyle) and let the doctors do what they do best with medical treatments

Food as medicine: evidence and mechanisms

Hippocrates quote and modern evidence

Mel quotes "Let food be thy medicine" and asks if data back that idea[22:45]
Dr. Musalem says there is overwhelming evidence that food is a major problem in current chronic disease burdens
Food as leading cause of death[23:03]
She cites a 2022 Journal of the American Medical Association publication stating food is the leading cause of death in the U.S.
She attributes this to high consumption of ultra-processed foods (about 60% of adult diet, 67% of children's diet) and displacement of healthy foods
Every time you put food in your mouth, she says, you have an opportunity to become a healthier or unhealthier version of yourself

Specific cancer-fighting foods and how they work

Berries and purple sweet potatoes: anthocyanins

Why berries are recommended[24:56]
She suggests a cup of berries a day, noting frozen wild berries are affordable and do not need to be organic
Berries are rich in anthocyanins, a type of phytonutrient (plant pigment with health effects)
Berries and breast cancer risk[26:06]
In the Nurses' Health Study, two servings of berries per week reduced the risk of breast cancer and reduced breast-cancer-specific mortality by about 25% for survivors
Purple sweet potatoes as an anthocyanin powerhouse[27:41]
She eats one purple sweet potato every day and calls it her favorite food
Purple sweet potatoes have about 150% more anthocyanins than berries
She mentions Okinawa, Japan (a Blue Zone where women live very long) as a culture that eats many purple sweet potatoes
How anthocyanins act in the body[29:01]
Anthocyanins and other phytonutrients can help turn off oncogenes (tumor genes that drive cancer) and turn on tumor suppressor genes
She contrasts this with a diet high in fake foods where such protective compounds are lacking

Vegetable and fruit intake statistics and benefits

Most Americans and cancer patients are not meeting vegetable and fruit recommendations[31:45]
She says about 90% of Americans are not getting enough vegetables and fruits
In her own Mayo cancer center study, 95% of patients were not meeting recommended vegetable and fruit intake
Dose-response benefits of produce[33:16]
She cites a large analysis showing people with about five servings of vegetables and fruits per day had a 10% reduction in dying from cancer compared to those with two or fewer servings
The same pattern showed a 12% reduction in death from heart disease and a 35% reduction in respiratory disease mortality
She connects respiratory-disease findings to later COVID research showing more plant-based diets were associated with lower COVID incidence and severity

Cruciferous vegetables and breast cancer

Examples and optimal preparation[33:50]
Cruciferous vegetables include cauliflower, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, arugula, and cabbage
She says cruciferous vegetables are somewhat better raw because they contain an enzyme, myrosinase, that aids absorption of protective compounds
If eating them cooked, she suggests nibbling a bit raw beforehand or sprinkling dry mustard seed after cooking to get similar enzymatic benefits
Mechanisms in estrogen metabolism and detoxification[36:40]
In breast cancer, cruciferous vegetables help convert estrogen into a less proliferative form, reducing breast tissue cell growth
She calls cruciferous vegetables a "master" of detoxification and discourages expensive detox regimens, recommending broccoli and similar foods instead

Beans, fiber, and metabolic disease

Beans as plant protein and fiber source[37:45]
Beans provide both protein and fiber; fiber is only obtained from plant foods
She notes 95% of men and about 91% of women are fiber deficient
High-level evidence for fiber benefits[38:32]
She mentions an umbrella review of 17 million person-years showing class I evidence that fiber lowers risk of death from any cause, heart disease, and pancreas cancer
Another review found fiber can reduce overall cancer risk by about 22%
Practical bean preparation and gas issue[39:52]
She explains beans contain raffinose, an enzyme-related compound that can cause gas, which is reduced by soaking and rinsing dried beans thoroughly before cooking
For canned beans, she advises rinsing well to wash off the soaking liquid
Red meat, diabetes, and food swaps[40:59]
She cites a study showing high intakes of red and processed meat increased diabetes risk by about 60% when comparing highest to lowest consumption
Replacing one daily serving of red or processed meat with beans or nuts reduced diabetes risk by about 30%
She suggests simple swaps such as using seasoned beans instead of meat in tacos or loading soups with beans

Soy and edamame: myth versus data

Rodent studies and misinformation[42:38]
Older rodent studies suggested soy caused mammary tumors, but humans metabolize soy differently, making those findings misleading for people
Human data on soy and cancer[43:56]
She notes Asian populations consume more soy and have lower breast cancer rates
A meta-analysis referenced in the American Cancer Society's 2022 guidelines found soy intake reduced breast cancer recurrence by 25%, especially in estrogen receptor-negative cancers but also beneficial in estrogen receptor-positive cases
Soy is also associated with lower risks of prostate and possibly lung cancer and is beneficial for the gut microbiome
Estrogen receptor mechanisms (alpha and beta)[44:58]
Soy preferentially binds to the estrogen receptor beta in breast tissue, which turns down proliferation
The body's own estrogen binds more to receptor alpha, which turns proliferation on, so soy's beta binding has a net protective effect
Soy for hot flashes and quality of life[45:53]
She cites Neil Barnard's studies where a half-cup of soybeans (edamame) daily plus a healthy plant-based diet reduced moderate-to-severe hot flashes by 88% and up to 92% in another trial
Participants also reported better mood and increased libido
She starts many breast cancer patients with hot flashes on soy as her first-line lifestyle strategy

Kiwi: digestion and DNA protection

Kiwi for constipation[48:00]
She sees many women with infrequent bowel movements, sometimes going up to 10 days without a bowel movement
Two kiwis per day for one to two weeks can improve constipation due to their fiber types and other components
Kiwi and oxidative stress[50:13]
Kiwi is rich in vitamin C and can reduce oxidative stress at the level of DNA, acting like an antioxidant that turns off oxidative damage
She recommends eating kiwi with the skin for extra fiber

Cooking and phytonutrient availability

Vegetables better cooked vs. raw[51:40]
Carrots and tomatoes are better cooked, especially with a bit of fat like extra virgin olive oil, to optimize absorption of lycopene and beta carotene

Longevity impact of dietary changes at different ages

Years of life gained from improved diet

Starting healthy eating at age 20[52:56]
Adopting a healthier diet (more vegetables, fruits, whole grains, plant proteins, less red meat and sugary drinks) at age 20 can add about 11 years of life expectancy for women and 13 years for men
Starting changes later in life[53:55]
Adopting healthier eating in one's 60s after a breast cancer diagnosis can add about 8 years of life expectancy
Even at age 80, dietary improvement can add about 3.4 years of life expectancy
Whole-food plant-predominant diet during chemotherapy[55:19]
She mentions small studies where a whole-food, plant-only diet during chemotherapy, sometimes with supplemental powders, led to less fatigue and better quality of life

Foods and ingredients to avoid because they promote cancer

Ultra-processed foods and additives

Definition and label-reading strategy[1:00:04]
She advises reading ingredient lists on packaged foods and putting items back if they contain words you do not recognize
Study on ultra-processed foods and women's cancers[1:01:47]
A UK study found that about 30% of food by weight was ultra-processed, and each 10-point increase in ultra-processed food consumption increased risk of cancer overall
In that study, higher ultra-processed intake raised risk of dying from breast cancer by 16% and from ovarian cancer by 30%
French cohort data on specific emulsifiers[1:02:02]
Among 92,000 people in France followed nearly seven years, intake of mono- and diglycerides was associated with a 24% increased risk of breast cancer and a 46% increased risk of prostate cancer
She notes mono- and diglycerides are common in items like flexible wraps and many processed products
Carrageenan was cited as raising breast cancer risk by about 30% in related analyses

Artificial sweeteners and immunotherapy effectiveness

Sucralose and gut microbiome[1:03:18]
She references data suggesting that sucralose consumption may reduce the effectiveness of cancer immunotherapy, likely via effects on the gut microbiome
She recommends avoiding artificial sweeteners in favor of dates, honey, maple syrup, or lower-calorie options like stevia and monk fruit (while still checking labels for added substances)
Sugar alcohols and gut discomfort[1:06:06]
Compounds ending in -ol (e.g., sorbitol, erythritol) are sugar alcohols that can cause GI upset and bloating; she advises caution with them

Processed meat as a carcinogen

Classification and examples[1:07:21]
Processed meat is classified as a class I carcinogen and includes pepperoni, sausage, bacon, chicken nuggets, and many lunch meats
Moderation perspective[1:08:51]
She compares occasional charcuterie consumption (once or twice a month) to occasionally speeding slightly above the limit-unlikely to cause harm if the rest of the lifestyle is healthy
However, frequent daily intake is problematic and contributes to colorectal and other cancers

Exercise, sleep, muscle, and metabolic health in cancer

Top three priorities for cancer patients

Love for self and others[1:11:08]
She lists love as the number one priority: love of self to motivate care behaviors, and love of others to share positive energy
Movement[1:11:02]
She encourages any kind of movement, from walking five minutes around the kitchen to dancing with a partner, without needing a gym
Food as medicine[1:12:06]
She urges patients to eat in ways that energize them, support regeneration, and modulate tumor-promoting and tumor-suppressing genes

Sleep and circadian rhythm

Brain "bath" during sleep[1:13:16]
She describes 7-9 hours of sleep as the time when the brain gets a "bath," clearing out toxins
Light exposure and melatonin[1:13:47]
Getting morning sunlight helps reset circadian rhythm, while blue light from screens at night suppresses melatonin and impairs falling and staying asleep
Shift work and cancer risk[1:14:03]
She notes studies showing increased cancer risk in people doing shift work, although multiple factors may contribute

Muscle mass and metabolic health

Role of muscle in blood sugar control[1:18:00]
Muscle takes up blood sugar after meals, so walking or exercising helps muscles absorb glucose and improves metabolic health
Importance of strength and bone health[1:18:30]
She has seen breast cancer survivors with severe osteoporosis from anti-estrogen medications who later fall and fracture hips, sometimes fatally
Resistance training preserves muscle, which in turn helps maintain bone density and reduces fall risk

Why both conventional treatment and lifestyle changes matter

Benefits of prior healthy living even if cancer develops

Credit for past lifestyle[1:24:19]
She cites research showing people who lived healthfully before diagnosis have better cancer outcomes; their previous efforts still "count" biologically
Improving lifestyle after diagnosis[1:25:24]
In the Nurses' Health Study, women who switched to healthier eating patterns after breast cancer reduced risk of recurrence and death, even if they had not eaten well before
She emphasizes it is never too late to start making healthier choices

Danger of rejecting conventional therapy for alternatives alone

Mortality risks of refusing standard treatment[1:26:10]
She states that patients who refuse conventional cancer treatment and only use alternative approaches have about a two-and-a-half-fold increased risk of dying
Looking across studies, she cites a range of around 30% to up to 470% increased mortality risk when conventional treatments are refused, especially in cancers that are typically curable
Her counseling approach[1:29:55]
She believes it is not a doctor's job to bribe or force patients into chemotherapy but to provide clear information and support
She explains to hesitant patients that many were already living healthily when cancer appeared, so there may be no natural-only strategy that can replace needed chemotherapy or targeted therapies

Psychological responses: resistance, acceptance, and reframing

Common mistake of fighting the diagnosis

Prolonged resistance prolongs suffering[1:32:24]
She sees many people stay in a prolonged state of fighting and resisting the diagnosis, which does not change reality and can make things harder

Value of acceptance and meaning-making

Her own acceptance[1:33:37]
She sobbed and felt fear but moved quickly into asking what her strategy would be and what she could control
Reframing cancer as a teacher[1:35:02]
She reframed her cancer as an opportunity to learn lessons that could later help her elevate humanity through her work

Heart failure, transplant, and organ donation

Heart damage after cancer treatment and childbirth

Post-bone-marrow transplant pregnancy and heart failure[1:35:23]
After high-dose chemo and radiation, she unexpectedly became pregnant and delivered her daughter Sophia, despite being told she would not be able to have children
Months after birth, she developed advanced heart failure with an ejection fraction of 8%, leading to long-term cardiac issues

Husband's sudden death and grief

Discovery of his death[1:39:22]
Her husband felt unwell, told her to sleep with their daughter; the next morning she found he had died in his sleep
Impact on her inner life[1:40:22]
For about a year after his death she could not tolerate stimulation like music and craved stillness to be present for her daughter
She came to view their love story as a blessing and sees ongoing small signs (like a heart-shaped pattern in marble) as messages of persistent love

Heart transplant journey

Listing and waiting[1:43:55]
She was listed for a heart transplant for over 12 months with no suitable match, among about 3,900 people on the U.S. heart transplant list
She notes that across all organs about 103,000 people are on transplant lists and about 17 people die each day waiting; roughly one heart transplant candidate dies daily
Concerns about donor personality and drug use[1:43:37]
A psychiatrist friend asked if she even wanted a transplant, mentioning the idea that recipients can acquire donors' personalities
Her cardiologist later told her the matching heart came from a 29-year-old IV drug user with hepatitis C, which initially triggered judgment and hesitation
Reframing and gratitude for the donor[1:44:23]
After reflecting for a few hours, she realized the donor had chosen to donate and felt this was the right heart for her
She experiences her donor's heart and her own life experiences as "dancing" together, and believes the donor may not have had the advantages she did

Appeal for organ donation

Why she advocates becoming an organ donor[1:45:30]
She urges listeners to register as organ donors so that their organs can continue "dancing in harmony" in another's life instead of ending with their own death

Messages for people facing a serious diagnosis

Moving from hope to knowing

Trusting vulnerability and a power beyond oneself[1:48:06]
She encourages newly diagnosed individuals not to judge their initial reactions but to see vulnerability as a doorway to deeper wisdom
She personally drew strength from faith in something greater than herself and from surrendering what she could not control

Modern breast cancer outcomes and hope

Curability of early-stage breast cancer[1:49:18]
She states that stage 0 to stage 3 breast cancers are considered early-stage and are cured "all day long" with current treatments
Examples of metastatic cases doing well[1:49:08]
She describes a patient named Michelle with metastatic breast cancer to the brain who exercised daily through treatment; her brain tumor resolved, and she now travels the world sharing her story
Michelle continued lifting weights even when her hands peeled and bled from medication, exemplifying determination

Single most important action: love

Starting with self-love[1:50:52]
She says if she had to pick one action, it would be love-rediscovering why you love yourself and your life so that you have a reason to take care of yourself
For people who feel turbulent and overwhelmed, she sometimes focuses first simply on what makes them excited to wake up, before tackling diet or exercise

Closing guidance: aliveness, gratitude, and ongoing education

Monthly lifestyle medicine session

She hosts an introductory lifestyle medicine session for cancer patients on the fourth Monday of each month at noon Eastern[1:52:03]

Invitation to aliveness and gratitude

Defining aliveness individually[1:52:33]
She invites listeners to lean into their own sense of aliveness, which will look different for each person, and then build food, movement, and sleep habits on top of that
Using gratitude to shift from deficit to abundance[1:52:45]
Even when life is hard, she suggests finding at least one thing to be thankful for each day to move from a sense of deficit toward abundance

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Food choices are a powerful, measurable form of medicine: prioritizing whole, plant-predominant, fiber-rich foods while minimizing ultra-processed products and harmful additives can materially reduce your risk of developing and dying from cancer and other chronic diseases.

Reflection Questions:

  • What ultra-processed foods or mysterious ingredients do I regularly buy that I could start phasing out this week?
  • How might adding just two more servings of vegetables or fruits per day change my energy and health over the next three months?
  • What is one simple, realistic food swap I can commit to (for example, beans instead of meat in one meal) that aligns with this evidence?
2

Movement and strength training are not optional extras during illness-they are critical levers that improve treatment tolerance, preserve muscle and bone, and can dramatically improve cancer survival rates.

Reflection Questions:

  • In my current routine, where could I consistently add a 5-10 minute walk after meals without overhauling my entire day?
  • How would my mindset toward exercise change if I viewed it as a core part of my treatment or prevention plan rather than a cosmetic goal?
  • What specific form of movement or simple strength exercise could I start this week that feels achievable given my current health and energy?
3

Shifting from resisting a diagnosis to accepting it and then focusing on what you can control frees up mental and emotional energy to take effective action and find meaning in the experience.

Reflection Questions:

  • Where am I currently spending energy fighting reality instead of directing that energy toward helpful actions?
  • How could I reframe a current health or life challenge as a teacher or source of future wisdom, as Dr. Musalem did?
  • What is one concrete step-however small-I can take this week that reflects acceptance and a commitment to showing up for myself?
4

Sleep and muscle-based metabolic health quietly amplify or undermine every other health effort; protecting your sleep, circadian rhythm, and muscle mass is fundamental to blood sugar control, treatment resilience, and long-term disease risk.

Reflection Questions:

  • What habits in the last two hours before bed (screens, light, caffeine, etc.) are most likely compromising my sleep quality?
  • How might prioritizing strength or resistance training once or twice per week improve my energy and metabolic health over the next year?
  • What small change could I make tomorrow morning (like getting outside for light soon after waking) to better support my circadian rhythm?
5

Love-for yourself, for others, and for life itself-is a practical health strategy: it motivates you to care for your body, strengthens resilience in adversity, and can transform how you experience even frightening diagnoses.

Reflection Questions:

  • When I think about the people or purposes I love most, how does that change my willingness to invest in my own health?
  • How could I treat myself differently this week if I acted as though I genuinely loved and valued my own life and body?
  • What simple act of connection or kindness (to myself or someone else) can I plan for today to cultivate a greater sense of aliveness?

Episode Summary - Notes by Hayden

Mayo Clinic Cancer Doctor: 5 Foods That Heal the Body, Starve Cancer, & Prevent Disease
0:00 0:00