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SmartLess

"Lionel Richie"

with Lionel Richie

Published September 22, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

The hosts open with light banter about family, college move‑ins, and an infamous incident where Jason was photographed skipping an iPhone line before welcoming music legend Lionel Richie. Lionel shares stories from his upbringing in Tuskegee, Alabama, his early days with the Commodores, and how his nickname "Skeet" and lifelong friendships shaped his character. He dives into his intuitive songwriting process, the backstories of hits like "Hello," "Truly," and "Lady," the creation of "We Are the World," and reflects on kindness, gratitude, and surviving decades in the music business with his positivity intact.

Topics Covered

Music career Music industry and record labels Creativity Biographical learning Personal narrative Fame and celebrity culture Music and service Personal Development Relationships

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Lionel Richie grew up on the edge of Tuskegee University's campus in Alabama, surrounded by the history of the Tuskegee Airmen and a tight‑knit community that he still stays in touch with via monthly Zoom calls.
  • Despite being unable to read or write music fluently, Lionel learned by ear, hums ideas to musicians, and has built a career on instinctive melody-making and simple chord structures.
  • Many of his iconic songs, including "Hello" and "Lady," started as casual phrases or unfinished ideas that he initially doubted before collaborators pushed him to complete them.
  • "We Are the World" was conceived and recorded in a single exhausting night after the American Music Awards, with superstars arriving largely on blind faith and minimal preparation.
  • Lionel credits his family's example-especially his father's habit of quietly helping strangers-as the foundation for his commitment to kindness and his positive outlook on life and fame.
  • He has meticulously archived his career with scrapbooks and memorabilia saved by his family, enough to fuel multiple books beyond his new memoir "Truly."
  • The Commodores discovered their unique sound only after a label critique pushed them to stop imitating other bands and start writing their own material.
  • Lionel continues to tour extensively around the world and delights in audiences knowing every lyric, sometimes covering for his own memory lapses by letting the crowd sing.
  • He frames his work and life around the simple but powerful phrase "I love you," which he sees as something the whole world wants to hear and as central to his songs and persona.

Podcast Notes

Host banter and life updates before the guest arrival

Jason's solo cold open and "one hand clapping" bit

Jason acknowledges he is doing the cold open alone and jokes that the show only really works with all three hosts[2:31]
• He compares solo hosting to "one hand trying to clap" and even performs the sound of one hand clapping to show how unentertaining it is
He transitions by saying he needs to bring in the "other two hands" and "light this candle" to start the show properly[2:54]

Morning check‑in and Jason's sugar hangover

The hosts greet each other and note that it is morning for Jason[3:16]
• Jason says he is still foggy from the night before because he had too much sugar and has a sensitive system
Jason describes having peach cobbler at a Sunday gathering[3:30]
• On the drive home with Amanda, he remarked that while he liked the group there, you "can't replace Sean or Will" in a dinner party dynamic

Franny going away to college and move‑in logistics

Will mentions Jason watched the movie "Weapons" for a third time, then pivots to note that Jason's daughter Franny is going away to college[4:12]
• Jason says he moves her in "tomorrow" and that she will attend a local university in Los Angeles
Jason predicts he may not cry because she already spends many nights away from home[4:47]
• He explains that 17‑ and 18‑year‑olds do a lot of "sleepouts"-his term for sleepovers-so she effectively already lives at home only part‑time
They joke about the word "sleepout" sounding like sleeping on the lawn and tease Jason about his phrasing[5:02]
Jason describes the upcoming move‑in day as very hot, involving hauling furniture up two flights of stairs with Amanda and their dog Maple and three carloads of stuff[5:47]
• Will says that if he were there he would help, acknowledging it is a "safe offer" because he is thousands of miles away but insisting he genuinely would enjoy helping

Jason's college registration story and his impatient brother

Jason recalls his own college move‑in and sign‑up day before computers, when students had to stand in long lines to register for classes[6:29]
• He describes a line stretching from the administrative building all the way down the street with about a thousand people waiting
Jason's brother Mike drove the car onto the lawn to cut the line[6:41]
• Mike escorted Jason right to the front door and claimed they had an appointment, lying his way in so Jason could sign up quickly

Hosts discuss Jason's infamous iPhone line incident

Recounting the 2007 iPhone launch and Jason "jumping the line"

Will dates the story to 2007 and marvels that Jason remembers the year of the iPhone incident[7:01]
Jason explains that Apple had offered to set them up with phones, but he decided to go to the Grove and "be a regular guy" by waiting in line[7:59]
• Will jokes that he instead chose to get his phone delivered a week early while Jason romanticized queuing like fans do for movies such as Star Wars
Apple employees pulled Jason out of line and brought him into the store to get his phone early[8:14]
• Unbeknownst to him, a photographer was already taking pictures of him in line, and the story "Jason Bateman skips line" appeared online before he got back to the office
Jason reflects that his intent was to have the authentic line‑up experience, but circumstances made him look like he was exploiting celebrity treatment[8:05]
• He recalls that by the next year, internal Apple staff jokingly referred to avoiding such PR situations as not "pulling another Bateman"

Introduction of Lionel Richie

Will's enthusiastic overview of Lionel Richie's career

Will describes the guest as a decades‑long international superstar and a "heavyweight" in music[10:43]
• He lists Lionel's awards: an Academy Award, a Golden Globe, multiple Grammys, and American music awards
Will runs through a list of songs from Lionel's band and solo career, including "Easy," "Sail On," "Three Times a Lady," "Still," and "Lady" written for another artist[11:14]
• Sean correctly guesses Lionel Richie based on the song list, and Lionel joins the conversation, greeting them warmly

Lionel's current studio setup and Los Angeles life

The hosts compliment Lionel's studio and ask if it is his recording space[11:48]
• Lionel explains it is his recording studio and a hideout where he closes the door to get away from everyone
He confirms he has lived in Los Angeles since 1981, though not in the same house the entire time[12:43]
• He describes a progression from a guest house, to a main house, through some rentals, and eventually to his current home

Lionel Richie's early life in Tuskegee and family home

Growing up on the Tuskegee University campus

Lionel states he was born and raised in Tuskegee, Alabama, right by the university campus[13:09]
• He clarifies his family's house was originally across the street from the campus gates, but the campus later expanded to surround the property
He still owns his childhood house, which now sits within the university grounds[13:57]
• Visitors pass by and say "there's Lionel Richie's house," and the school has expressed interest in the spot, but he worries they would tear it down for a building

Historical connections to Tuskegee and the Tuskegee Airmen

Lionel explains that the house deed previously belonged to the Washington family before his grandparents received it in 1923[14:30]
• He notes that many of the local parents were Tuskegee Airmen, situating his upbringing in a historically significant community
He emphasizes the deep history embedded in the house and the surrounding campus[14:58]

Attending Tuskegee University and writing his book "Truly"

Lionel confirms he attended Tuskegee University and that his career began while he was there[14:10]
Will mentions Lionel's upcoming book "Truly" and gives its planned release date[15:13]
• Lionel says it is his first book and admits the writing process was painful because interviewers kept asking him to keep digging deeper with "and then what happened?"
He says recollection came together as names and stories triggered each other, though he occasionally had to call old friends to confirm details[16:12]
• He cites homeboys in Tuskegee, including Milton Carver Davis and Harold Boone, and former Commodores bandmate Ronald LaPread, who corrected some of his embellished memories

Nicknames, family influence, and archiving memories

Origin of Lionel's nickname "Skeet"

Lionel reveals his nickname is "Skeet," which evolved from his father's baby nickname for him, "skee‑brew"[17:26]
• He recounts that his father looked at him as a baby and spontaneously called him "my skee‑brew," a name that stuck through elementary school and was painful to carry
Friends warned him the nickname would get him killed in high school, so they shortened it to "Skeet"[18:04]
• He describes peers with even wilder nicknames like Fungus, Cookie Man, Peahead, and Sunny Boy, and notes many of them went on to become professionals like lawyers and a biomedical nuclear engineer for NASA

Family and friends as memory keepers

Jason asks about Lionel's ability to keep memorabilia and news clippings over the years[19:07]
• Lionel says his parents, grandmother, cousins, aunts, and uncles kept every clipping, creating scrapbooks of milestones like his first "American Bandstand" appearance
He reveals there are enough photos and artifacts for an entire second book beyond "Truly"[19:45]
• He contrasts wanting to preserve some things with the impulse to lose others, joking that living with someone who archives everything can feel like "Single White Male"

Lionel's musical education, limitations, and creative process

Learning instruments by ear and not reading music

Lionel clarifies that he considered himself more of a saxophone "holder" than a real player when he started and that he still cannot read or write music[21:09]
• He learned to mimic greats like Sonny Stitt and John Coltrane by ear, playing along with records rather than reading scores
He says he also plays piano purely by ear and later learned that many legendary artists, such as Smokey Robinson and Paul McCartney, also do not read music[21:33]
• He identifies attention and tracking issues-what would now be called ADHD-as the reason he could not read fast enough to perform from sheet music

Working with bands by humming rather than charts

Lionel explains he cannot efficiently read a chord chart and instead prefers to stand in a room with musicians and hum parts to them[22:23]
• He says gifted session musicians can play what he hums almost instantly, often having performed it multiple times by the time he finishes humming

Evolving instruments and sounds over his career

Lionel says he began his career writing on a grand piano for his first five or six years[27:28]
• After songs like "Penny Lover," he transitioned to using keyboards with different sounds and never again relied exclusively on the same instrument
He emphasizes that music for him is about texture, sonics, and sounds, and he enjoys how technology has allowed his music to change over time[27:14]

Only 12 notes and the "radio station" in his head

Asked how melodies come to him, Lionel says it feels like there is a radio station playing in his head that he can "tap into"[27:56]
• He points out that Western music uses only 12 notes, so creativity comes from how you combine them, often needing only four chords to make an entire album

Stories behind hit songs and the importance of the hook

How "Hello" began as a throwaway line

Lionel recalls waiting for his co‑producer James Carmichael, playing piano, and casually singing "Hello, is it me you're looking for?" as a greeting when James walked in[28:27]
• James told him to "finish that song," even though Lionel thought the line was corny and feared he would be the laughingstock of the business
Lionel eventually finished "Hello," fell in love with it, but then James disliked the heavy string arrangement and they removed it from the album[29:24]
• To replace it, Lionel wrote "Truly" for that album and later brought "Hello" back for the next record, where it became a global anthem and a signature greeting shouted at him worldwide

"Truly" and delayed Grammy recognition

Lionel notes that "Truly" became his first Grammy win after years of attending the awards without taking home a trophy[29:56]
• He jokes that for the first 10 years you "sign up for your seat" at the Grammys without getting anything, until suddenly one day they finally called his name

Songwriting structure: starting with the hook

Lionel explains that his mother was an English teacher who insisted on proper language, which influenced his careful approach to lyrics[30:30]
• He says the most important part of writing a song is the subject, embodied in the hook phrase like "All Night Long" or "Hello"
Once he has a hook, he writes verses in short stanzas, but he would not complete them until the Commodores approved the basic idea[31:02]
• His strategy was to avoid investing time finishing verses if the band was just going to reject the song after hearing the hook

Using "da‑da" syllables and "God's words" when writing

Lionel often composes melodies with nonsense syllables ("da‑da‑da") and later fits lyrics to those patterns[31:36]
• Sometimes real words slip out spontaneously during this process, and he calls those "God's words," believing they reflect where some higher creative force is guiding him

Character, kindness, and perspective on fame

Staying grounded through lifelong friendships

Will observes that Lionel still keeps up with old friends like Fungus and others from Tuskegee and suggests that helps keep his perspective grounded[32:31]
• Lionel says he has known many of these friends since preschool and elementary school, through high school and college, and they still have a monthly Zoom call to catch up

Choosing kindness in a permissive entertainment culture

Jason asks if Lionel ever felt tempted to act badly or lazily in a culture that often permits celebrity misbehavior[34:59]
• Lionel credits a "magical" family, especially his grandmother, who taught him that if you learn to treat people right at home, dealing with the rest of the world is easy
His grandmother told him that an "asshole is an asshole" everywhere, and he uses that as a guide to not emulate the worst behavior he sees in the business[36:09]
• He says in entertainment they encounter assholes daily, and his motto is that if you can spot one, you should make sure you do not act like them
The hosts mention a recent experience with an egregious "grade‑A" jerk that gave them contrast and perspective on the value of kindness[36:46]
• Will describes advising his 15‑year‑old son to keep "pushing out love" to people, even when it is not returned immediately, because it creates a world where positivity comes back from the universe

Lionel's father as a model of generosity

Lionel shares stories of his father bringing strangers home for dinner and quietly helping them[39:15]
• His father would introduce a man he just met at Kroger's as if he were an old acquaintance, ask his wife Alberta to set another plate, then go upstairs to find the man a suit for a job interview
Lionel recalls overhearing his mother questioning who the guest was and learning that his father had only met him that day while shopping[39:52]
• Upstairs, his parents would argue because his father would give away one of his favorite suits, insisting the man needed it more to look the part for the interview
Will relates a similar pattern in his grandfather, who helped men from halfway houses with meals, work, and conversation, and whose packed funeral at 97 reflected the lives he touched[41:15]

Formation of the Commodores and transition to solo writing

From freshman talent show to the Commodores

Lionel recalls being a freshman at Tuskegee when a fellow student asked if he played instruments and invited him to join a band for the freshman talent show[41:28]
• The freshman talent show was mainly an event where upperclassmen laughed at freshmen, but their band surprised everyone by "killing it" with covers, especially James Brown songs
Members of the senior band "The Jays" saw their performance and, as they were graduating, invited Lionel and others to form a new band[41:26]
• That collaboration became the Commodores, who then played every sorority and fraternity house and campuses across the region doing covers

Being challenged to find their own sound

When the Commodores started seeking a record deal, they auditioned for Philadelphia's Gamble and Huff at Philly International[43:25]
• They performed a set of songs that nailed the sound of Sly Stone, the Temptations, Three Dog Night, and other acts they copied
After the audition, the label told them they sounded great but asked, "Who are you guys? What do you sound like?"[44:00]
• This feedback made them realize they needed original material to define their own identity, which pushed them into songwriting

Lionel's niche writing ballads within the Commodores

Within the Commodores, members gravitated toward different influences: some loved funk, while Lionel was drawn to artists like James Taylor, Carole King, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, and Elton John[45:47]
• He realized that everyone had plenty of uptempo funk tunes, so his strategy was to write the mid‑tempo and slow songs to ensure he got tracks on the albums
He notes that the slow songs he contributed typically became the hits, while the group collectively wrote uptempo tracks like "Brick House"[46:22]

Writing for other artists: Kenny Rogers and "Lady"

How "Lady" left the Commodores and became a Kenny Rogers hit

Lionel explains that "Lady" was originally intended as another slow song for the Commodores[47:35]
• Bandmates announced they wanted no more slow songs, effectively closing his lane within the group at that moment
At the same time, Kenny Rogers called asking if Lionel had one of "those songs" for him[47:49]
• Lionel initially told Kenny he was too busy, but when a drummer's motorcycle accident halted their tour, he called back and said he was free
The song existed only as "Baby, I'm your knight in shining armor and I love you" when Lionel walked into the studio with Kenny[48:42]
• After Kenny spoke emotionally about his wife being a "lady," Lionel changed the song's title and opening word to "Lady" on the spot
Lionel calls Kenny not only a friend but one of his biggest mentors, and Sean shares that he once toured as a Christmas elf on Kenny's holiday tour[49:43]

Creating "We Are the World" and organizing the recording session

Conception and enormous logistical challenge

Sean references a documentary about "We Are the World," noting how astonishing it was to gather that roster of stars without cell phones or email[54:35]
• Lionel co‑wrote the song with Michael Jackson and worked with Quincy Jones to assemble the artists, aiming to fight hunger and "wipe out" the problem
Lionel describes the project being driven by naïve optimism-they truly believed they were going to save the world and eliminate hunger[55:14]

The exhausting night of recording after the American Music Awards

Lionel hosted the American Music Awards that night, rehearsing from 7 a.m. until the show, then going straight to A&M Studios after it ended[55:43]
• They did not start recording until around 2 a.m., and he stayed awake through the entire process until roughly 7 or 8 a.m. the next morning
Most artists had heard only a cassette demo, if that, and many arrived knowing almost nothing about the song but trusting Quincy, Michael, and Lionel[56:36]
• He says the hardest part was simply getting the performance on tape; editing and assembling it afterward felt much easier by comparison

Fundraising impact and ongoing legacy

Lionel recalls repeatedly calling Quincy to report fundraising milestones as the record sold: $10 million, then $20 million, then $30 million and beyond[57:48]
• He notes that $30 million in the mid‑1980s was an enormous sum and that the song is still generating money and being played
At one point he jokingly asked Quincy if they had promised to give away half or all of the proceeds, and Quincy warned him not to even suggest keeping any of it[58:05]

Tension over Swahili lyrics and Waylon Jennings leaving

Lionel recounts that once Stevie Wonder arrived, he suggested adding African phrasing to the song, offering a line that sounded like Swahili[1:01:08]
• After they repeated a line like "Tutu wa no no wili muingu" several times, Waylon Jennings declared that "no good old boy" ever sang in Swahili and walked out
Lionel notes the irony that the phrase was not actually Swahili, but it did not matter to Waylon, who was there largely because Willie Nelson vouched for the project[1:00:56]

The invented chant in "All Night Long"

Attempting to find "infectious party" words in African dialects

Lionel explains that for "All Night Long" he initially wanted authentic African words to convey the feeling of an "infectious party"[1:01:45]
• He called the UN and learned there were over 101 African dialects and that one tribe might not understand another, making it impractical to choose a single language

Realizing nonsense syllables were acceptable

Lionel then called a Jamaican friend to ask what Bob Marley meant by certain phrases and was told some expressions meant "absolutely nothing"[1:02:59]
• With that in mind, he simply made up the chant "Tom bo li de say de moi ya" and similar lines, treating them like scat with no literal meaning
He says people around the world kept trying to explain the meaning of the chant to him, and he let them for a year before finally admitting it meant nothing[1:03:20]

Ongoing touring, Glastonbury, and reflection on longevity

Constant touring since the early 1970s

Lionel replies that his "tour" has effectively been going nonstop since 1971[1:03:59]
• He recently finished a European tour of about 34-36 dates across cities like London and venues such as the O2 and stadiums in Germany
He notes that he still plays for crowds of 40,000 to 100,000 people, and when he forgets lyrics, he simply signals the audience to sing[1:05:03]
• The shows have taken on a "Rocky Horror" feel where fans know all parts and even show up dressed like him, complete with mustache and afro-even the women

Glastonbury as a framing device for his book

Lionel describes performing at Glastonbury in front of about 200,000 people, many dressed like him, as a pivotal moment[1:05:06]
• He says his book "Truly" opens at Glastonbury and then works backward through his life to explain how he got there

Closing reflections: gratitude, love, and host reactions

Lionel's gratitude and philosophy of "I love you"

Lionel says he begins and ends each day with a gratitude mantra, marveling that so much success happened to him[1:07:25]
• He remarks that only in hindsight, like a tennis player realizing later they won Wimbledon, does the full magnitude of his achievements sink in
He stresses that simply surviving the entertainment business sober, clothed, and in his right mind is itself a phenomenon[1:06:46]
• He distills his mission to three words-"I love you"-which he believes is what the whole world wants to hear and what his songs and persona consistently communicate

Hosts' admiration and post‑interview debrief

The hosts tell Lionel they admire his talent, positivity, and the quality he has maintained over decades, and they promote his book "Truly"[1:07:45]
• Lionel invites them to tap him on the shoulder and say hello if they ever see him in public, and he affectionately calls them by name as they sign off
After he leaves, Sean says he feels "bathed" by Lionel's presence, and the others agree they feel uplifted[1:07:53]
• They compare Lionel's light and energy to Alicia Keys and say those two are among their favorite interviews because of their joy and positivity
They marvel at Lionel's massive catalog of hits, his continued touring, and how youthful and energetic he seems[1:08:48]
• Sean reminisces about watching Lionel's music videos on MTV, especially the "Hello" video featuring a blind woman sculpting his face, and says meeting him feels surreal
The hosts then end with a brief joke imagining a sequel to "Hello" titled "Goodbye," riffing on the famous lyric for comedic effect[1:09:40]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Staying grounded by maintaining long-term relationships and family values can keep you balanced, even as your career and public profile grow exponentially.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which friendships or family relationships from earlier in your life could you nurture more intentionally to keep you grounded today?
  • • How do the values you grew up with show up-or fail to show up-in how you treat people in your current work environment?
  • • What is one small ritual (like a monthly call or meetup) you could start to reconnect with people who knew you before your current success or role?
2

Creative work does not require perfect training or technical credentials; leveraging your natural strengths and preferred process can lead to exceptional results.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what areas are you waiting to feel 'fully qualified' instead of using the skills and instincts you already have?
  • • How could you redesign your creative or professional workflow so it plays to your strengths, the way Lionel hums ideas instead of reading charts?
  • • What is one project you could start this month using an unconventional process that feels natural to you, even if it breaks traditional rules?
3

Starting with a clear, strong 'hook'-the core idea or promise-makes it easier to build everything else around it, whether you're writing a song, designing a product, or pitching a project.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is the simple, memorable 'hook' for your current project or idea that you would use to explain it in one sentence?
  • • Where are you spending time perfecting details (the verses) before you've validated that people even care about the hook?
  • • How could you test your hook with a small audience before investing heavily in completing the whole project?
4

Consistently choosing kindness and generosity in everyday interactions can quietly shape your legacy far more than momentary displays of power or status.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you helped someone with no expectation of return, the way Lionel's father did with strangers needing a suit?
  • • How might your daily behavior change if you assumed that small acts of kindness would be what people remember most about you?
  • • What is one concrete way you could use your resources, skills, or connections this week to make someone else's path easier?
5

Naïve optimism, when paired with action, can make you attempt ambitious projects that more 'realistic' thinking might prevent-and sometimes that is exactly what's needed.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are you talking yourself out of a bold initiative because it feels too big or complicated on paper?
  • • How could you channel a bit of naive optimism to get started on something meaningful, postponing the worry about how every detail will work?
  • • What is one ambitious idea you could move forward by simply committing to the first step, as Lionel did by saying yes to organizing a massive recording session?

Episode Summary - Notes by Avery

"Lionel Richie"
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