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The Ramsey Show

Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money

Published November 27, 2025
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About This Episode

Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw co‑host a caller-driven episode focused on getting control of money by facing fear, shame, and relational pressure around finances. Callers discuss massive consumer and business debts, student loans, divorce settlements, housing decisions, and family dynamics around borrowing and lending money. The hosts emphasize practical baby steps, strong boundaries, living below your means, and choosing long-term freedom over short-term comfort or appearances.

Topics Covered

Personal Development Relationships Parenting and child development Entrepreneurship Small business financing Retirement savings Investing Anxiety Boundaries Financial independence

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • A high income can hide very poor financial decisions; without discipline and humility, bigger paychecks just create bigger messes.
  • Momentum moves like dumping an upside-down car or cutting private school can jump-start a long, overwhelming debt payoff journey.
  • Labeling family behavior as "abuse" when it's really poor boundaries and miscommunication can keep you stuck in a victim mindset.
  • You can rent and even buy a house with a zero credit score using manual underwriting if you have solid income and payment history.
  • Never lend money to people you're dating or to family members; treat it as a gift or say no, because loans almost always damage the relationship.
  • Shame around past financial mistakes causes people to avoid looking at numbers, which is exactly what keeps them stuck in the cycle.
  • Using personal loans to clear room on credit cards is just reshuffling the same problem and usually makes it worse.
  • Big lifestyle choices like private school, expensive cars, and upgrades should follow your actual cash, not your feelings of what you "deserve."
  • AI may change creative and media work, but learning to use the tools and leaning into human connection and judgment will keep you valuable.
  • Disability income can feel like a safety net that you're afraid to leave, but if you can do sustained remote work you may double your income and regain options.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and show setup

Hosts, studio, and phone lines

Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw co-host and invite callers to dial in for help with money and life issues[0:37]
They reference recent live events in Orlando and Chicago and say they are energized from the crowds[0:48]

Caller Jessica from Arkansas: Near-million dollar debt and fear of bankruptcy

Jessica's debt breakdown and situation

Jessica says she is just under $1 million in debt and is contemplating bankruptcy but feels her faith says she should pay it all[1:10]
Debt details: $210k unsecured personal loans, including $83k in credit cards; $658k mortgage; two vehicles[1:36]
Vehicle debts: one car with $12k owed, another with $59k owed but only worth $35k (very upside down)[1:55]
Household income was over $300k; after her husband's job transition they now have about $259k per year, about half of which is stable military/disability income[2:25]

How the unsecured debt happened

Jessica explains that the $210k unsecured debt came from failed business endeavors, "serial entrepreneur" attempts, bad financial decisions, and luxury shopping linked to imposter syndrome in a new career[3:31]
She also took out two personal loans to clear her husband's credit card debt[4:04]
Ken and Jade frame it as "mo' money, mo' problems"-a big income allowed them to make bigger mistakes, but ratio-wise it's like many other callers[4:15]

Assessing feasibility and focusing the plan

Jade notes that with $259k income and a mortgage payment of $3,938 (no more than 25% of take-home), the house is not the problem; they focus on non-mortgage debt (Baby Step 2)[4:34]
Jessica has used the debt snowball before about 20 years ago and had previously only carried a mortgage and car payment until three years ago[5:14]
Ken asks if she is truly done with this pattern; she emphatically says she can't do this again[5:34]

Momentum move: dealing with the upside-down car

Ken believes they need a big momentum play to change emotionally, suggesting attacking the $59k upside-down car first[6:02]
Jade agrees they must do something that shakes them emotionally and financially to mark a clear starting gun[6:24]
They advise pulling together about $24k (the negative equity) over a couple of months to get out of the upside-down vehicle[6:39]
Plan: sell the upside-down car, drive the $12k car, and then save a few thousand to buy a cheap "beater" car[6:44]
Jade warns that driving a beater while making a high income will severely challenge Jessica's ego and social comparison but will be good for her soul[7:33]
• Jade notes Jessica will likely think "I work too hard to drive this" and feel out of step with her peers, but that discomfort will help ensure she never repeats this
Ken references Jade and her husband Sam paying off $500k in debt, including being a one-car family during their payoff, as proof that big sacrifices are livable[8:02]

Caller Tyler from Knoxville: Parents, student loan refund, and boundaries

Refund controversy and parents' reaction

Tyler, age 22, says his parents are "financially abusing" him after he used a $3,999 school refund to pay off his clarinet, car, and some credit card debt[10:16]
His parents were furious, claiming the refund was their money given their effort to support him[10:45]
Jade clarifies that "refund" often means excess student loan money; part of this refund was likely loan funds, not just work-study income[11:23]
The loan is in both his and his mom's name, so she had a financial stake in how the refund was used[11:56]

Examining the claim of financial abuse

Tyler describes his parents as spenders who buy themselves a Mercedes and a new truck but are inconsistent when he asks for help and sometimes ask him for money[13:02]
Jade challenges his use of the word "abusing," saying she hears poor money habits and some boundary issues, not actual abuse based on what he's shared[12:46]
Ken bluntly calls his abuse language "nonsense" and warns that labeling his parents as abusers will warp his decision-making[14:39]
They affirm that objections to his using joint loan money without consulting his co-signer mom are understandable, even if his instinct to pay debt was good[14:53]

Boundaries and autonomy at age 22

Jade tells Tyler that at 22 his parents can suggest and try to strong-arm, but he does not have to comply, such as with their request he help with a truck down payment[14:14]
Ken encourages him to stop saying and believing he's being abused, while recognizing their unhealthy money patterns will continue to create tension[16:09]

Student loan load and education choices

Tyler currently has about $40k in student loans that may reach $80k by graduation as he studies sports management at the University of Tennessee as a transfer student[16:34]
Jade warns he is following his parents' footsteps by overextending with out-of-state / expensive schooling and debt, which will keep him financially entangled with his mom as co-signer[17:00]
She urges him to consider in-state options, slowing down to pay cash with work-study and jobs, and even questioning whether he needs the degree at all[17:33]
Ken notes some sports management roles can be reached without a degree by getting in at entry-level roles and working up, and adds that employers rarely care where a degree is from[19:06]
• Jade mentions no one has ever asked her where she went to school or what her degree is in, despite her success

Caller Jennifer from Jackson: Teen son and building credit

Desire to build teen's credit score

Jennifer and her husband have high credit scores (830 and 780) and want their 17-year-old son to start adulthood with a similarly good credit score[22:03]
She is thinking about his future needs for vehicles and an apartment and assumes a good credit score will be necessary[22:03]

Jade's critique of credit scores

Jade explains that credit scores are based entirely on interaction with debt, not on whether you can truly afford things or manage your own money well[22:03]
She objects that scores reward borrowing and carrying debt, whereas their philosophy is to avoid debt entirely because "the borrower is slave to the lender"[23:15]
Jennifer's son is already a good saver, with about $3,000 saved plus a $2,000 CD, and uses a system of tithing, saving, and spend money[24:09]

Renting and buying without a credit score

Jennifer fears an apartment complex won't rent to her son without a credit score, but Jade says many landlords either don't check or will work with tenants who can prove income and savings[24:40]
Jade suggests her son show bank statements, pay stubs, and possibly pay a bit more up front (like first and last month's rent) instead of relying on a credit score[25:24]
For cars, Jade would rather see him buy a $5,000 car in cash and upgrade over time than ever start with car payments that trap middle-class families[25:43]

Manual underwriting for mortgages

Jennifer worries home ownership will be difficult without a score; Jade says you can buy with a zero credit score using manual underwriting[25:03]
Jade describes manual underwriting: lenders look at 12 months of on-time payments on bills, 12 months of rent history, income documentation, and possibly tax returns for self-employed borrowers[25:54]
She notes a zero credit score (no credit use) is different from a bad score and can actually signal that someone avoids debt and is solid with money[26:52]
They reference Churchill Mortgage as an example of a lender that offers manual underwriting in most states[26:29]

Question of the Day: Randy from Delaware and the $1,700 loan to a girlfriend

Situation and concern

Randy has dated a woman for over a year and has loaned her more than $1,700, which she promised to repay in nine months but has not[32:29]
He is a single father with over $20k in debt, living on one salary after his wife passed away, and is serious about this woman but bothered by the unpaid loan[32:43]

Ken and Jade's perspectives on lending in relationships

Jade points out that lending always risks non-repayment and relational damage, especially in romantic contexts, which is why they advise not loaning money[33:24]
Ken believes Randy's girlfriend knows he is serious and is assuming the $1,700 will effectively become "their" money once they're together, so she feels little urgency to pay it back[33:44]
Jade suggests the girlfriend's behavior reveals some character/integrity issues because they're not engaged or married and she is not repaying borrowed money[35:58]
They agree Randy is unlikely to ever see the money again and emphasize the principle of never lending money to friends, family, or romantic partners-only gifting if you can afford to lose it[36:37]

Caller Dayton from Vancouver: Getting out of debt twice and mindset change

Background and new debt accumulation

Dayton and his wife previously paid off about $22k in debt in 11 months by working lots of overtime, and it felt good to be out of debt[42:49]
Since then they've had three kids, bought a house, changed careers, and taken on new debt that now totals about $103k[42:57]
New debt came from paying for his firefighter schooling (~$20k), house improvements, and using lines of credit instead of cash[45:02]

Mindset issues: shame and avoidance

Dayton asks how to protect themselves from repeating the cycle after they get out of debt again, noting there is a lot of shame around looking at their finances[44:16]
He admits he often avoids opening the banking app or doing a budget because it makes him feel like a failure[47:53]
Jade identifies an "I deserve" mentality-believing they work hard and deserve a certain lifestyle-as a major driver of their overspending and debt[46:22]
She urges him to replace "I deserve this lifestyle" with "I deserve peace, sleep, and freedom from debt," reframing what he truly wants[47:42]

Channeling emotions to avoid repeating mistakes

Ken asks Dayton to name the negative emotions: he names massive shame and stress, especially as the sole income earner with a new baby[48:16]
Ken encourages him to "bottle" how awful this feels and use that memory as fuel to never get back into debt once they've paid it off[49:37]
They tell him he is not a deadbeat or loser but someone who made bad financial decisions like many others, and he can walk the Baby Steps and change permanently[50:39]

Caller Laura from Los Angeles: $150k business and personal credit card debt

Debt picture and income

Laura and her husband have about $150k in credit card and personal loan debt, all tied to a small business they started and are no longer really running[52:16]
She says they opened personal loans to pay down credit cards just to free up space to borrow more on the cards[53:04]
Combined income is about $200k per year ($120k him, $80k her), plus a mortgage of around $400k and car debts including a $19k loan and a leased car[53:04]

Budget items: cars, private school, and loans

Their mortgage payment is $3,300; car payment on the financed car is $700; leased car is $400; their 4-year-old's private school is $850 per month[54:27]
They also have personal loan payments of $1,600 per month for him and $850 for her (included in the $150k total debt)[54:26]
Net monthly take-home is about $13,000 ($4k from her, $9k from him)[55:40]

Recommended cutbacks and car strategy

Ken questions whether a 4-year-old needs private pre-K at $850/month and suggests this is a likely area to cut for margin[56:05]
Jade advises turning in the leased car when the lease ends in about four months and saving $3-4k in the meantime to buy a cheap car in cash[58:22]
She instructs Laura to check the value of the $19k car on Kelley Blue Book; if not upside down, they should sell it and move to a cheaper vehicle to free the $700 payment[58:51]
Dropping the lease and the high car payment plus possibly private school would free close to $2,000 per month, which can be thrown at the $150k debt[59:07]
Jade frames the sacrifice as temporary: once the mess is cleaned up, they will be able to truly enjoy their $200k income without the stress of heavy payments[1:01:09]

Debt-Free Scream: Gary and Melissa from Minnesota

Debt payoff journey and income

Gary and Melissa paid off $165,000 in 47 months and also paid off their house, becoming completely debt-free[1:03:39]
Their income went from $160k to $200k during the journey as they leaned into their careers and earned promotions[1:03:52]
Debts included a HELOC (~$40k) used for a basement remodel then ongoing sloppiness, a car loan, and a credit card balance they were continually paying off[1:04:34]

Catalyst and budgeting tools

The catalyst was deciding to pay for his last semester of school in cash instead of touching the HELOC; they had 2.5 months to come up with the tuition and succeeded[1:04:46]
They adopted a written budget; Melissa is the nerd who wrote it out and Gary was initially reluctant but bought in once he saw progress[1:05:38]
They used visual trackers on the fridge (like Tetris-style blocks representing amounts of debt) and later a drawing of balloons supporting their house with each balloon representing principal paid[1:05:39]

Involving the kids and future plans

They involved their three children (ages 13, 11, and 7) by letting them see the trackers, listening to the podcast together, and playing the Ramsey game at home[1:05:27]
With the house paid off, they plan to do fun home projects with cash and continue building wealth as Baby Steps Millionaires[1:05:54]
They complete their debt-free scream together as a family in the studio lobby[1:11:21]

Listener Jane: Filmmaking career and fear of AI

Jane's situation and concern

Jane writes that after many starts and stops in college and her career, she realized she is passionate about filmmaking-especially advocating for people without a voice[1:15:05]
She is worried because she has heard it is hard to make money in that profession and fears AI could replace her work and reduce its value[1:15:15]

Ken's advice on AI and creative work

Ken says she needs to find paying gigs that let her use what she does best to do work she enjoys that produces results she cares about, and build a ladder into filmmaking instead of leaping[1:15:24]
He stresses that AI can speed up tasks like editing but doesn't replace the human touch in telling stories, consulting clients, and crafting advocacy-focused narratives[1:15:34]
He notes she will likely need a day job to pay the bills while building her filmmaking career part-time and gradually stepping into it as demand and income grow[1:15:10]

Caller Paul from Hartford: Dad asking him to take a $20k loan

Loan request details

Paul says his dad casually asked him at a family reunion to take out a $20k loan in Paul's name for a vague business purpose, without giving details[1:19:38]
Paul knows he should not take the loan but wants to know how to say no without causing issues[1:19:55]

How to respond and family loan principles

Jade recommends simply but respectfully telling his dad: "I don't borrow money, and I can't take out debt for you," making it about his own values rather than judging his father[1:20:30]
Ken adds that he should be clear there is no negotiation or conversation about it-just a firm no and expressions of love[1:20:04]
They reiterate their broader rule: don't loan money to friends or family because it almost always introduces tension and changes the relationship dynamic[1:21:19]

Caller dealing with divorce: House buyout and alimony obligations

Divorce settlement structure

Caller describes a mediated settlement where the 401(k) is split 50/50, he must come up with $100k in cash within 90 days to buy her out of the house, and owes a $150k lump-sum alimony over five years[1:24:28]
The $150k alimony works out to about $2,500 per month and is affordable on his roughly $180k income[1:25:00]

Handling the alimony and house decision

Jade recommends treating the alimony as a fixed line item in the budget rather than a debt to be attacked, since it's a court-ordered obligation[1:24:51]
He has about $55k cash saved but not the full $100k; original plan was to use part of his 401(k) share to fund the buyout, but that would involve penalties and taxes[1:26:01]
Ken questions why he agreed to a 90-day timeline he can't realistically meet and suggests he may need to go back before the judge to modify terms[1:26:29]
They explore options like selling the house (which has about $200k in equity) instead of borrowing or stripping retirement, and starting fresh with a smaller home or renting[1:27:08]
Ken leans toward selling the house to create a clean break, pay her share, and avoid risky moves like tapping retirement or taking home equity loans[1:28:22]

Caller Maggie from Tampa: Downsizing and slow home sale

Home sale context

Maggie and her 69-year-old husband (he's 76) downsized to a smaller house and are anxious because their previous paid-off house has been on the market for about six months[1:30:59]
They listed at $575k and recently lowered the price to $569k; proceeds were intended to help pay down the new home's $326k mortgage[1:30:36]
They are not under financial duress because the old house is paid off and they are not carrying two mortgages[1:31:51]

Advice on patience and pricing

Ken notes Florida's market has started to cool after a period of being overheated, so six months on market in Tampa isn't necessarily shocking[1:31:32]
He suggests ensuring they have a great real estate agent and, if not, using a Ramsey-endorsed local provider to reassess pricing and strategy[1:32:41]
They counsel her not to panic or slash the price purely from anxiety, since they aren't in a financial squeeze[1:32:44]
Ken shares his view that possible rate cuts later in the year could bring more buyers back into the market, so patience could pay off[1:34:34]

Caller AJ from California: Real estate media business and AI fears

Business model and concern

AJ is starting a real estate media business focusing on video and lifestyle content for agents selling higher-end properties to elevate their brand[1:33:44]
He worries that AI tools replacing editing and background work might make his services less valuable or obsolete[1:33:58]

Reframing AI as a tool

Ken points out that if AI can speed up editing and background tasks, it enhances his business instead of replacing him, allowing faster and better delivery[1:33:44]
He distinguishes between professions where AI can produce full outputs (like synthetic actors in films) and those where human consultation, filming, and relationship-building remain critical[1:34:42]
Jade compares AI to past tools like vacuum cleaners or apps-tools that some people won't want to learn, who will still pay professionals who master them[1:35:25]
They advise AJ to learn to work with AI and double down on the human elements of his service-brand strategy, on-site shooting, and client relationships[1:37:05]

Caller Carl from Sacramento: Selling business and deploying $750k

Financial snapshot after potential sale

Carl, age 45, has no retirement savings or home ownership but has $250k in a high-yield savings account and a small business he could sell[1:43:26]
He expects about $500k net after taxes from selling the business, leaving him with roughly $750k liquid[1:43:39]
He plans to start a similar business again using retained assets, expecting to earn around $4k/month net within six months and $6-7k/month within a year, or alternatively get a job paying $80-100k[1:44:51]

Housing and retirement priorities

In his area, a modest home costs about $550k; Jade says stabilizing housing (biggest budget item) by paying cash for a house makes sense if feasible[1:43:49]
After securing housing, they want him investing 15% of his gross income for retirement and building emergency savings, using the remaining lump sum wisely[1:43:52]

Caller Lee from Washington, D.C.: Laid off with savings and credit card debt

Job loss and planned debt payoff

Lee was laid off from a startup sales job he began in July; the company couldn't afford to keep him, though he had interned for two months and then been hired[1:44:39]
He had planned to pay off his credit card debt but now wonders if he should change priorities after the layoff[1:44:23]
He has about four months of expenses saved and some amount of credit card and other debt[1:44:23]

Adjusting to Baby Steps during a storm

Jade explains that a job loss is a "storm," so they advise pausing aggressive Baby Step 2 debt payoff and instead preserving and adding to savings[1:44:26]
She tells him to keep making minimum payments on all debt to stay current but not to pay extra until he lands his next position[1:44:26]
Ken urges him to find income quickly, even part-time or gig work, while interviewing for a new sales role, so that income continues and his position is stronger when he's rehired[1:45:08]
Once re-employed, Jade wants him to throw the saved cash at his debts, keep $1,000 starter emergency fund, and then rebuild 3-6 months of expenses after becoming debt-free[1:45:53]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

A big income is only a tool; without intentional limits and humility, it simply amplifies poor decisions and lifestyle creep instead of building freedom.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where has my higher income quietly enabled me to make bigger financial mistakes instead of solving my problems?
  • • How would my monthly spending change if I approached my income as a tool for freedom rather than as a signal to upgrade my lifestyle?
  • • What specific sacrifice or "momentum move" (like dumping a payment or cutting a luxury) could I make this month to reset my trajectory?
2

Lending money inside close relationships almost always harms trust and creates resentment; clear boundaries and honest "no" responses protect both your finances and your relationships.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which current or past money situations with friends or family still feel tense or unfinished to me?
  • • How might saying a respectful but firm "no" to financial requests change the health of my closest relationships over time?
  • • What simple script could I prepare in advance so I can decline future loan requests without feeling guilty or blindsided?
3

Credit scores measure how you interact with debt, not your actual financial strength; you can design a life that relies on real savings, income, and manual underwriting instead of chasing a number.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways have I allowed my credit score to dictate decisions that would look different if I were focused only on cash flow and savings?
  • • How would my housing and car choices change if I assumed I could not use debt and had to qualify based on real income and payment history?
  • • What steps could I take this year to reduce my dependence on credit products and prove to myself that I can operate primarily on cash?
4

Shame and fear around money cause avoidance, which keeps you stuck in the same patterns; facing the numbers and the emotions head-on is the only way to break the cycle.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What financial task or number (like opening my banking app or listing my debts) do I avoid because it makes me feel like a failure?
  • • How might regularly revisiting how awful my current stress feels motivate me to follow through on a long-term payoff plan?
  • • What small, concrete action could I take this week to look my finances in the eye without judgment, just curiosity and ownership?
5

Difficult circumstances such as disability or job loss justify safeguards, but they don't have to cap your ambition; focusing on what you can do and designing work around your strengths unlocks new options.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where am I telling myself "I can't" because of my circumstances when my actual track record shows I already can in some form?
  • • How could I reframe my limitations as design constraints that help me identify remote, flexible, or brain-based work that fits me better?
  • • What experiment could I run over the next 60-90 days to test my capacity for a new kind of work without risking my basic safety net?

Episode Summary - Notes by River

Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money
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