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The Ramsey Show

Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt

Published September 22, 2025
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About This Episode

Ken Coleman and George Camel take live calls from listeners facing a wide range of financial and emotional challenges, from catastrophic investment scams and oversized mortgages to student loans, car debt, retirement fears, and business decisions. Throughout the episode they apply the Ramsey Baby Steps, emphasize living on a budget, avoiding debt, and prioritizing long-term peace over short‑term comfort, while also acknowledging the emotional weight of grief, shame, mental health struggles, and family dynamics that intersect with money decisions.

Topics Covered

Budgeting Debt payoff Snowball method Retirement savings Student loans Mortgage Investing Small business financing Mental health Relationships

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • A massive financial loss from a scam, even late in life, calls for survival mode, income generation, and community support-not bankruptcy by default.
  • Oversized house and car payments can quietly sink a family's financial future; sometimes selling and downsizing is the only realistic path to stability.
  • Co-signed or parent-held car loans are still the parents' debt, and cleaning them up can mean using savings and having the child reimburse over time.
  • Near or in retirement, paying off all debt-even with retirement funds-can simplify life and free up large monthly cash flow, but tax consequences must be planned with a professional.
  • Working 70-100 hours a week for years to pay off debt is unsustainable; redirecting effort into career advancement can be a healthier and more effective long-term strategy.
  • Mental health challenges like PTSD and bipolar disorder can drive impulse spending; financial change must be paired with psychological support and structure.
  • A strong emergency fund plus a clear severance/bonus package can justify moving ahead with retirement investing even amid job uncertainty.
  • Small business owners should separate business reserves from personal funds and avoid borrowing for vehicles and equipment, even when the payments are "tax deductible."
  • Young high earners can buy a reliable used car with cash, avoid debt entirely, and still be well positioned for a strong financial future.
  • Estate and beneficiary decisions in blended families require honest conversations about motives, fairness, and trust, not just percentages on paper.

Podcast Notes

Show introduction and format

Hosts introduce The Ramsey Show and invite callers

Ken Coleman and George Camel hosting from the Ramsey Network and Fairwinds Credit Union Studio[0:18]
Live call-in format with number 888-825-5225 for listeners to ask money questions[0:28]

Caller Kathy: Retirement wiped out by an online investment scam

Kathy's situation and losses

Kathy, 68, got involved in an online investment group six months ago and ultimately lost her entire retirement[0:51]
She borrowed $50,000 from her brother, cashed out all of her 401(k) and pension, and the group froze accounts and disappeared[1:05]
Total losses: Kathy lost $487,000; her brother lost the $50,000 she borrowed plus $110,000 he invested himself[1:12]
She filed reports with the FBI and other agencies, but they offered little hope of recovery[1:58]

Current finances and debt

House is paid off and located in Texas with a homestead exemption; estimated value around $375,000-$425,000[1:19]
Debt includes a $30,000 American Express loan plus about $2,000-$3,000 on two other cards, totaling roughly $33,000[1:24]
Kathy's only steady income is $2,000 per month from Social Security[3:27]
Her monthly expenses including bills, food, homeowner's insurance, and other costs total about $2,000[4:38]

Bankruptcy discussion and housing options

George says bankruptcy could clear the American Express debt but doesn't consider it worth it for $33,000 in debt in this context[3:04]
They confirm she likely will not recover the scammed funds and must accept the retirement and pension are gone[3:10]
They recommend keeping the house for now, using Social Security to survive, and focusing on obtaining work for income[4:51]
Reverse mortgage is strongly discouraged as an expensive product that preys on desperate people and erodes home equity[7:13]

Dealing with brother's loan and emotional impact

Kathy promised to pay her brother $500 per month, but George states she simply cannot pay him now and must prioritize basic needs[3:35]
They emphasize both she and her brother made a poor decision and that he took a risk lending money to a risky borrower[4:10]
Ken acknowledges Kathy's devastation and says she must grieve the retirement she envisioned and accept a different future[5:56]

Next steps: work and community support

Ken urges Kathy to pursue any plausible job options (e.g., retail, service) despite her age and sales background to create income and possibly benefits[5:16]
He encourages her to tell her story openly to people she knows to overcome shame, find emotional support, and potentially uncover job opportunities[5:37]
George raises a possibility of selling the house and downsizing in about five years if she cannot work and runs out of options, using the proceeds to create a small nest egg[7:00]

Caller Chris: Selling car or house to fix retirement and debt

Background and current Baby Step progress

Chris and his wife are on Baby Step 2, have just started following the Ramsey steps, and have no emergency fund[11:14]
They are worried about retirement, have no savings, and are considering selling their home to pay off debt and start fresh[11:24]

Debt details and car situation

Household income is about $128,000 gross per year; take-home pay is around $8,200 per month[12:08]
They have a pool loan of $73,000, which George treats like a second mortgage due to its size relative to income[12:16]
Consumer debt remaining is a car loan of about $27,000; the car is worth about $42,000[12:20]
They previously paid off $16,000 in credit card debt[12:25]
Selling the car would free about $15,000 in equity and eliminate a $500/month payment, saving $6,000 per year[12:48]

Health, work hours, and side income

Chris is 53 and recently had a heart attack; he works 50+ hours a week at a new commission-based sales job and another ~50 hours a week DoorDashing[14:45]
He has been DoorDashing for about three months and is only taking Sundays off, raising concerns about sustainability and health[14:54]
Ken suggests focusing energy on earning more commission in sales instead of burning out with DoorDash, as sales has better financial and health ROI[15:25]

House, pool, and retirement projections

Chris owes about $370,000 on the mortgage with 26 years left on a 30-year loan; the house is worth about $600,000[17:03]
If they sold the house, paid off the pool and car, and put 20% down on a new home with a 15-year mortgage, Chris estimates they would have about $11,000 left for an emergency fund[17:03]
George calculates that if they instead keep the house, get debt-free within a year (age 54), then invest 15% of their income (~$1,600/month) until age 70, they could accumulate around $750,000[16:12]
Ken is more open to aggressively resetting by selling the house, perhaps renting for a while, to accelerate retirement savings and overall reset[17:12]
George is cautious about selling a house as a first move, warning it can feel like a get-out-of-jail-free card without changing behaviors, but acknowledges they must make deep sacrifices either way[19:06]

Caller Danielle: Are we really in Baby Step 2 because of our son's car loan?

Perceived Baby Step 6 vs reality of remaining debt

Danielle and her husband thought they were on Baby Step 6 with only a mortgage left, but they have a vehicle loan in their names for their son[23:08]
The car loan balance is about $18,000; the son is paying the lender via them, but the legal obligation is in the parents' names[23:47]

Using savings to clear the car and still keeping son responsible

They have $25,000 in a six-month emergency fund and additional smaller savings accounts; no debt other than mortgage and this car[24:02]
George says technically they are in Baby Step 2 and should use savings to pay off the car, then rebuild the emergency fund quickly (they estimate three months)[24:01]
He suggests paying off the lender now, then having the son continue making payments to them to preserve his responsibility while eliminating debt and interest[24:36]
They discuss whether to tell the son the loan is paid off; George notes ethical tension but leans toward not inviting temptation and ensuring he continues payments as agreed[25:08]
George encourages eventually teaching the son to save up and pay cash for future cars instead of making payments[26:18]

Caller Rex: Using retirement accounts to pay off large debts at age 66

Retirement balances and debts

Rex is 66, still working, with $1.1 million in an IRA and $200,000 in a 401(k)[28:56]
He has about $300,000 of total debt including mortgage, school loans, personal loans, cars, and credit cards[29:09]

Weighing debt freedom vs. preserving retirement accounts

Monthly payments on all debts total about $4,500[29:49]
George likes the idea of withdrawing enough (around $300,000) from retirement accounts to pay off all debt and free up the $4,500/month in cash flow[29:08]
He notes that at Rex's age there is no early-withdrawal penalty but income taxes will apply, especially since all funds are in traditional accounts[29:08]
George recommends consulting a tax pro or SmartVestor Pro to possibly stage withdrawals over more than one tax year to reduce the tax hit[31:06]
He also suggests considering selling cars with equity to reduce how much must be pulled from retirement[31:13]

Caller John: High income, moving, and when to buy a house

Income, move, and family plans

John recently got promoted, works in sales, and earns a minimum of about $17,000 per month, sometimes up to $30,000[33:01]
His wife earns about $5,000 per month, but they plan for her to stop working or work from home once they have their first child[33:18]
They must move to Colorado by around February or March due to the promotion and are considering whether to rent or buy immediately[33:55]

Debt, savings, and down payment strategy

John has about $35,000 in savings and his wife has a car loan of under $10,000, which they have not yet paid off with cash[34:18]
He also has $20,000-$25,000 accessible in a 401(k) but is advised never to touch retirement early due to penalties and taxes[34:13]
George urges using savings to immediately pay off the wife's car loan and then rebuilding the emergency fund[35:42]

Renting first vs. rushing into homeownership

George's guideline is no more than 25% of take-home pay for a 15-year fixed mortgage including taxes and insurance[35:35]
He shows that with John's income, a $500,000 house with $100,000 down could have a reasonable payment around $3,750[34:30]
They recommend renting in the new city for 6-9 months to a year to learn the area, stack cash, and avoid rushing into a massive decision while also possibly adding a baby soon[35:49]
Ken and George reassure John that he is far ahead of the average 32-year-old and should breathe, pay off the car, rent, and prepare calmly for homeownership later[39:59]

Caller Jennifer: Grieving a pet and spending during Baby Step 2

Emotional context and financial question

Jennifer is on Baby Step 2 with about $50,000 in debt and is preparing to euthanize her 17-year-old dog Ulysses, whom she has had for 15 years[41:43]
She previously cashed out a non-retirement mutual fund, set aside $400 in a sinking fund for this eventuality, and is debating whether to spend extra for private cremation and an urn[43:14]

Weighing grief-related spending vs. "dumb" money moves

Basic cremation is $40 and does not return ashes; private cremation with ashes and urn is $240[46:15]
Jennifer feels torn because she has been extremely frugal (rice and beans, handmade gifts) and fears this might be financial irresponsibility[45:56]
George and Ken tell her plainly to spend the $240, noting it's not impulsive retail therapy but a meaningful way to say goodbye and will not derail her financial journey[46:07]
George suggests, if it helps mentally, earning $240 through extra work or selling something to "offset" the cost[45:56]

Caller Ben: Fear of stock market vs. keeping cash safe in CDs

Assets in CDs and bonds

Ben is about 67-68, recently forced into retirement due to company closure, with $300,000 in CDs and $100,000 in U.S. savings bonds[49:26]
He also has about $600,000 in a simple IRA that is already invested in the market[50:07]

Risk perception and missed growth

Ben hesitates to put the $400,000 into the market because he fears downturns and long recoveries, wanting the money to be "safe"[49:45]
George reframes that at Ben's timeframe, it's riskier to leave the money in low-yield vehicles missing potential growth[50:26]
He calculates that investing $300,000 from 68 to 75 at a 10% average return could grow it to about $600,000[51:48]
George recommends leaving maybe a year of expenses in cash but investing the bulk, as Ben already trusts the market via his IRA[49:45]

Caller Caitlin: 401(k) beneficiary split between special-needs son and adult daughter

Family structure and estate concern

Caitlin and her husband have a 7-year-old autistic son together and her husband has a 24-year-old daughter from a previous marriage, with whom he has rebuilt a relationship[54:19]
They have a special-needs trust and a will intending to fund the trust for their son, but her husband wants 20% of his 401(k) to go to his daughter upon his death even if Caitlin is still alive[58:49]

Fairness, guilt, and trust

Caitlin feels frustrated and worries this shortchanges their special-needs son, suspecting her husband may be trying to make up for past failures through money[58:49]
Ken asks whether she'd feel similarly if the adult daughter were her biological child and notes it is normal for parents to leave something to all children[59:04]
George asks if Caitlin would be financially okay if she only received 80% of the 401(k) and explores whether this is truly a financial problem or primarily an emotional one[59:30]
Caitlin acknowledges they have set up the trust and that her husband is trustworthy and would do everything he could to care for their son if she predeceased him[1:00:09]
They encourage her to focus on understanding her husband's motives, accept some of his desire to care for his daughter, and reduce resentment by emphasizing shared goals for their son[1:00:09]

Caller Sarah: Extreme overwork to pay student loans and burnout

Workload and debt

Sarah has been working 70-100 hours a week for about seven years, juggling logistics, bartending, and legal secretary jobs[1:05:04]
She now has one consolidated student loan balance of about $85,000 after refinancing from 14% to 6% interest[1:05:55]
Her minimum payment is $1,065/month, but she has been paying around $2,500/month or more when possible[1:04:55]

Emotional exhaustion and career path

Sarah is emotionally overwhelmed, calculating about three years left at her current payoff pace and finding that prospect crushing[1:07:35]
She has a master's in military history and aspires to teach, with a potential path to a funded PhD program in a few years[1:07:35]
Ken and George caution her not to add a PhD now and instead focus on stabilizing finances and emotional health[1:08:03]

Rethinking work intensity

Ken tells her she is not stuck but exhausted; they suggest she could temporarily step back from the extra jobs and see how that affects her ability to pay, career progress, and wellbeing[1:09:02]
They recommend investing her best energy into growth within logistics where promotions and higher income are more likely, rather than perpetually grinding extra jobs[1:11:01]

Caller Amber: Budget feels restrictive amid PTSD, bipolar, and repeat debt cycles

History of hardship and current diagnoses

Amber says she has had a very difficult life, including two bankruptcies (one tied to a toxic marriage and near-home loss) and is now recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder[1:15:30]
She acknowledges she has used spending to fill an emotional void and struggles to stick with anything, including budgets[1:15:45]

Current financial picture

Amber works about 52 hours a week across two jobs plus another 12 hours a month at a third, earning about $62,000 per year[1:16:47]
She has about $88,000 in debt: roughly $3,000 miscellaneous, $2,000 credit card, two car loans ($7,000 and $21,000), $25,000 student loans, and $30,000 owed to her parents from her divorce[1:18:15]

Budget restriction vs. underlying depression and spending triggers

Amber describes feeling deprived and restricted by a budget, comparing current single income to past dual income of $175,000 when she felt she could buy anything[1:19:33]
Ken reframes that what she is facing is more like financial depression and grief for a former lifestyle, not just a budget issue[1:20:55]
They highlight that current reality includes $62,000 income and $88,000 of debt, making the math unavoidably tight and requiring drastic debt payoff focus[1:20:41]
They emphasize she is resilient and hardworking but must break the pattern of adding new debt after each bankruptcy[1:22:25]

First steps: emergency fund and structure

George asks if she can set aside $1,000 before paying bills in the next 30 days; she believes she can[1:22:37]
They instruct her to prioritize Baby Step 1 (a $1,000 starter emergency fund) and to expect constant "somethings" that will try to derail progress[1:22:55]
They give her access to the EveryDollar budgeting tool to guide her through the process and provide structure alongside her mental health treatment[1:23:33]

Caller Cindy: Job uncertainty after acquisition and whether to start investing 15%

Emergency fund, income, and acquisition details

Cindy is single with a fully funded six-month emergency fund of about $19,000, plus additional savings bringing total cash to about $35,000[1:26:32]
She has around $300,000 in retirement accounts and earns a base income of about $136,000 per year[1:27:55]
Her company was recently purchased; leadership is still deciding direction and has said employment could end at any time, but she has been offered a retention bonus if she stays at least a year or until a layoff[1:27:04]
If her position is eliminated, she would receive the retention bonus and a severance totaling more than 10 months of salary, over $100,000[1:28:16]

Decision: start Baby Step 4 or hoard more cash?

Cindy wonders if she should pause and add more to cash because of uncertainty, or begin investing 15% of her income[1:27:04]
George views the retention and severance as evidence she is not in immediate danger and says she is more than okay to start investing 15% now[1:27:04]
They project that if she invests 15% (~$1,700/month) from age 47 to 67 on top of her existing $300,000, she could reach about $3.5 million[1:28:16]

Career resilience and networking advice

Ken advises Cindy to do proactive networking in her industry, sharing that her company was acquired and she is exploring connections, without panic[1:29:11]
He uses his "proximity principle" idea: being around the right people in the right places creates future opportunities, which is especially important amid potential layoffs[1:30:49]
They also directly speak to Cindy's son (without naming him) praising his mom for providing so well and encouraging him to learn from her[1:30:59]

Caller Joseph: One-man plumbing business, business reserves, and debt on van and equipment

Personal and business finances

Joseph runs a one-man plumbing business and asks if he needs a separate emergency fund for the business and whether to pay off business-related debts[1:35:16]
He has $127,000 in personal accounts, $25,000 in business accounts, and a separate $20,000 emergency fund[1:35:58]
His only personal debt is his home mortgage of $32,000 with a payment of $211.61 per month[1:36:24]
Business debts include about $40,000 on a van and $25,000 on plumbing equipment at about 6.39% interest[1:35:24]

Guidance on business reserves and paying off debt

George affirms having separate business checking and savings, but not a 3-6 month household-style emergency fund for business; instead keep sensible operating reserves[1:35:58]
They recommend using available cash to pay off the van and equipment despite tax write-offs, as the interest and risk outweigh the deduction benefit[1:37:09]
Joseph reveals he will earn about $250,000 before taxes this year in the plumbing business and has no retirement savings yet[1:38:44]
George calculates that freeing up about $1,400/month in payments plus the small mortgage and then investing around $3,600/month from age 50 to 67 could grow to almost $2 million[1:39:01]

Value of trades as a career path

Joseph explains he became a plumber about four years ago, going through apprenticeship and journeyman stages (about four years total), with the main cost being test fees of a few hundred dollars[1:40:06]
Ken highlights Joseph as an example of the opportunity in the trades: low training cost, four years of preparation, and now a $250,000 income with no student loans[1:40:33]
They cite that for every five plumbers leaving the business, only two are replacing them, creating a huge opportunity in the trades[1:40:33]

Caller Ethan: Law student replacing totaled car with cash

Assets and future income

Ethan, a law student with a year left in school, had his 2005 Toyota Camry totaled and received $6,000 from insurance[1:48:41]
He has $10,000 in liquid cash and about $40,000 in non-retirement investments (bonds and mutual funds), with no debt[1:49:01]
He is on a full-ride scholarship and already has a job lined up after the bar exam with a starting salary of $190,000[1:50:18]

How much car to buy and how to shop

Ethan has been looking at late-teens model Camrys with less than 100,000 miles, priced between $15,000 and $20,000[1:50:45]
George and Ken are comfortable with him spending up to around $20,000 for a reliable used car given his cash position and future income[1:51:01]
They advise paying cash, not taking a loan, and suggest he could sell some of the non-retirement investments to cover the purchase[1:50:34]
George recommends shopping at independent used car dealers and on Facebook Marketplace, getting a pre-purchase inspection, and researching model-specific recalls and common repairs[1:51:40]
They warn Ethan not to reveal he is paying cash or his future high salary to salespeople to avoid being taken advantage of[1:52:08]

Caller Tyler: House-poor with VA loan and growing family

House purchase, income, and debts

Tyler and his wife moved into their second home (purchased with a VA loan at 0% down) in October and wanted a long-term family home after he grew up moving often[1:56:13]
Their mortgage payment is about $4,500/month on a home bought for $600,000; their net income is about $9,400/month, making the mortgage roughly 47% of take-home pay[1:57:19]
They have a two-year-old son (described as a "tornado") and just learned they have another child on the way[1:56:33]
Other debts include a truck loan ($15,000 remaining with a $536 payment), about $20,000 in his wife's student loans, and around $20,000 in credit card debt[1:57:48]

Realizing the numbers do not work

Tyler says his budget shows they are about $1,300 in the hole each month even after attempts to tighten spending with cash budgets[1:59:16]
They initially spent like "kings and queens" after moving in and have since tried to restrict spending but still can't make the math work[2:00:00]
He feels buyer's remorse and suspects selling and downsizing is inevitable while his wife is emotionally attached to the house[1:59:34]

Options: sell the house, cut spending, and rent

The house was listed for around four months before they bought it, starting near $750,000 and eventually dropping to $600,000; Tyler worries they couldn't get $600,000 again[1:59:16]
They put nothing down, so they have essentially no equity and could face a short sale or paying money to get out[2:01:18]
George points out that with a $9,400 income and $4,500 mortgage plus other debts and lifestyle spending, they are effectively "spending like Congress" and must make drastic changes[2:01:59]
They recommend selling the house despite the pain, possibly renting for $2,500-$3,000/month, cutting lifestyle spending heavily, and working extra for a couple of years to clear debts[2:02:11]
Ken notes the need for a "come to Jesus" meeting with his wife framed as the two of them united against the problem, not against each other[2:02:11]
They also give Tyler access to EveryDollar, emphasizing that it can help them find margin and see clearly where money is going[2:03:37]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

When you experience a major financial loss or setback, the priority shifts from trying to "restore what was" to stabilizing your current life through income, realistic budgeting, and community support.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What specific expenses and obligations must I cover to keep my current life stable over the next 3-6 months?
  • • How can I communicate my situation honestly to trusted people in my network who might help with emotional support or opportunities?
  • • What is one concrete action I can take this week (like applying for a job or cutting a bill) that moves me toward stability rather than obsessing over past losses?
2

Big fixed payments on houses, cars, and lifestyle debt quietly erode your options; sometimes the only way to regain control is to sell assets, downsize, and accept a lifestyle reset.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Looking at my budget, which fixed payments (rent, mortgage, vehicles, loans) are consuming a disproportionate share of my income?
  • • If I had to free up $1,000 a month in the next 90 days, what assets could I reasonably sell or what contracts could I change or cancel?
  • • How would my stress level and decision-making change if I chose a simpler, cheaper living arrangement for the next few years?
3

Co-signed and "helping" debts still legally belong to you, so generosity must be paired with clear boundaries and realistic risk assessment.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where am I currently on the hook for someone else's loan or obligation, even if they are making the payments today?
  • • How could I restructure or unwind those arrangements in a way that preserves the relationship but stops putting my financial future at risk?
  • • What criteria will I use in the future before agreeing to sign my name on any obligation that isn't directly my own?
4

Working harder and longer hours can bridge a short-term gap, but long-term financial progress usually comes from increasing your value and income in a focused career path, not endless side hustles.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which of my current work activities has the highest potential to grow my income over the next 3-5 years?
  • • If I reduced my total hours to something sustainable, how could I reinvest the freed-up time into skill-building, networking, or performance that leads to promotions or better roles?
  • • What signs (physical, emotional, relational) tell me that my current work pace is unsustainable and needs to change?
5

Mental health challenges like trauma, PTSD, or bipolar disorder often drive financial behavior, so lasting change requires pairing a clear money plan with appropriate professional support and self-compassion.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When I look back at past overspending or debt decisions, what emotional states or triggers tend to show up right before I swipe the card or click buy?
  • • How can I build safeguards into my financial system (waiting periods, accountability partners, separate savings) that protect me when I'm not thinking clearly?
  • • What kind of professional or peer support could I pursue this month to address the emotional roots of my money habits, not just the numbers?
6

Clear beneficiary and inheritance decisions in blended or complex families require honest conversations about motives, fairness, and trust instead of silent resentment or unilateral choices.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What assumptions am I making about my spouse's or family member's intentions around money and inheritance that I haven't actually voiced or tested?
  • • How could I structure a calm conversation where we look at the numbers together and discuss both our fears and hopes for each child or dependent?
  • • What written plans (wills, trusts, beneficiary designations) need to be reviewed or created so that everyone's role and share is explicit instead of implied?

Episode Summary - Notes by Jordan

Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt
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