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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2384 - Mark Kerr

with Mark Kerr

Published September 25, 2025
Visit Podcast Website

About This Episode

Joe Rogan and Mark Kerr discuss the new feature film "The Smashing Machine," where The Rock portrays Kerr, and how eerily accurate and emotionally intense the depiction of his life, relationships, and career felt to him. They revisit the early days of MMA and Pride, the dominance of elite wrestling and cardio, and pivotal fighters and fights that shaped the sport. Kerr also speaks candidly about addiction, recovery, identity beyond fighting, and the painful but redemptive process of exposing his struggles in the original "Smashing Machine" documentary and now in the dramatized film.

Topics Covered

Mixed martial arts Wrestling Performance-enhancing drugs in sports Boxing Alcohol addiction and recovery Mental health Personal narrative Personal Development Filmmaking Violence and self-defense

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • The Rock's portrayal of Mark Kerr in "The Smashing Machine" was so precise in mannerisms, speech, and movement that Kerr and his family found it surreal and therapeutic to watch.
  • Elite wrestling and exceptional cardio are framed as the most decisive advantages in MMA, creating gaps in ability that some opponents can never realistically bridge.
  • Kerr describes how Pride FC paid fighters in large amounts of untaxed cash, how lax steroid policies were, and how radically different that era was from the regulated UFC of today.
  • The original "Smashing Machine" documentary captured Kerr at a moment when his life was collapsing from opioid use, and he nearly vetoed its release before deciding to allow it in hopes of helping others.
  • Kerr details how his addictive, all-or-nothing mindset fueled both his success in combat sports and his later descent into substance abuse, and how sobriety forced him to build a new identity beyond being a fighter.
  • They argue that foundational grappling and wrestling skills are essential for modern MMA and that submission grappling competitions like ADCC are a safer way to build that base.
  • Joe and Kerr trace the evolution of MMA training, from crude early methods to sophisticated heart-rate-based conditioning and the emergence of cardio "monsters" like Khabib, Merab, and Kane Velasquez.
  • They reflect on the psychological toll of fighting, the loneliness before and after bouts, and the necessity of developing structure, small daily wins, and emotional honesty in life after competition.
  • Kerr and Rogan highlight under-credited pioneers like Frank Shamrock and Royce Gracie, whose technical innovations and conditioning fundamentally changed how fighters approach mixed martial arts.
  • The conversation touches on psychedelics like Ibogaine and ayahuasca as potential tools for treating addiction and PTSD, and on broader themes of open-mindedness, spirituality, and connection to nature.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and discussion of the new film "The Smashing Machine"

Joe's reaction to the movie as more than an MMA film

Joe says he went in expecting a standard MMA movie but found it to be a gripping, well-acted film that happens to be about MMA[0:18]
He praises The Rock's performance as surprisingly deep and different from blockbuster-style acting[1:47]

Kerr's son reacting to The Rock playing his father

Kerr describes his son watching the film in New York and calling him, saying The Rock nailed his mannerisms and speech pattern[0:59]
• His son compared it to seeing a "doppelganger" and was shocked at how completely The Rock captured him

Why The Rock took on the role and how Kerr viewed it

Kerr recalls telling The Rock he didn't have to take such a demanding dramatic role, but The Rock insisted that he did need to do something different from blockbusters[2:22]
They both note that the role is perfect for The Rock: a complex, giant man where his size fits a serious character piece[2:29]

Emotional impact of seeing his life dramatized

Watching the final cut in Venice with the cast

Kerr saw an 80% cut earlier in the year, then watched the final in Venice seated between Benny and The Rock, with Emily next to them[3:36]
He describes the last scene as therapeutic, allowing him to see how hard he had been on people around him and how selfishly driven he was[3:58]
• He particularly feels remorse for how much his partner Dawn paid the price for his single-minded pursuit of success

Seeing his role in the pain of others

Kerr says the film let him, for the first time, objectively see his own part in the chaos and how his selfish drive harmed loved ones[3:51]

Early MMA days and the rise of wrestling in mixed martial arts

Meeting Joe Rogan in 1997 and the state of MMA then

They reference a photo of the two of them from 1997 and remark how wild it is that nearly 30 years have passed[4:49]
Kerr recalls that describing his job back then left people's jaws hanging; no one understood why someone would fight like that for a living[4:58]

Joe's early UFC commentary and love for the sport

Joe explains that Campbell McLaren got him into backstage and post-fight interviews because Joe was already obsessed with fights in Japan[5:40]
• He did it essentially at a loss financially and quit after about a year and a half before returning under Zuffa after Fear Factor

Origins of modern MMA and Vale Tudo

Joe talks about the early question in martial arts: what is the best style, which was answered when Rorion Gracie created the UFC[6:19]
They mention Brazilian Vale Tudo and Japanese promotions like Pride as crucial in showing style vs. style competition[6:19]

Kerr's mindset about size and toughness in his first fights

Kerr confesses he was still "brainwashed" to believe that height or a 10th-degree black belt automatically meant the toughest man in the room[6:54]
• His trainer reassured him, understanding how dominant his wrestling was, that he would do fine despite facing much taller opponents

Defining the wrestler's advantage in MMA

Kerr offers his definition of a wrestler: someone who can hold a grown man where he doesn't want to be held for as long as he wants and the man can't do anything about it[7:23]
Joe and Kerr agree that an elite wrestler dictates where the fight takes place, citing Chuck Liddell as an example of a wrestler who chose to keep it standing[7:32]
• They call wrestling the foundational, most important skill in MMA and cite a resurgence of wrestlers dominating

Cardio monsters, Russian wrestling, and the terror of endless pressure

Russian wrestlers and the ability to sustain flurries

Kerr describes watching Russian wrestlers string together attack after attack, noting that they can sustain flurries far longer than he could[8:08]
He recalls Kurt Angle training at a level he wasn't, able to pressure until opponents simply made mistakes from exhaustion[8:21]

Examples of cardio plus wrestling dominance in MMA

They cite Cain Velasquez as a heavyweight with insane cardio and elite wrestling plus striking, calling that combination terrifying[9:03]
Joe mentions current fighters like Anthony Hernandez and Merab Dvalishvili as modern examples of relentless cardio and pressure[9:37]

Steroids era and Vitor Belfort's transformation

Joe notes that when wrestlers like Kerr and Coleman appeared, fighters felt forced to get on steroids to keep up in size and power[10:01]
They discuss Vitor Belfort ballooning to 240 pounds early in his career and later fighting at 185, illustrating extreme weight and PED issues[10:06]
Joe lays out Vitor's arc through later testosterone replacement therapy and the "TRT Vitor" phase, saying it should almost be a commercial for TRT[12:31]

Pride FC culture, steroids, and Kerr's move from UFC to Pride

Steroid policies and Pride's infamous non-testing

Joe recounts Enson Inoue telling him Pride paperwork literally stated in large letters that they did not test for steroids[13:01]
Kerr describes fighters passing urine cups to clean teammates in order to get through nominal medical checks[13:08]

Kerr's contract dispute with UFC and near-fight with Royce Gracie

Kerr signed a three-fight tournament deal with the UFC (events 14 and 15 plus another), but Pride recruited him after watching him fight[40:18]
After he signed with Pride to fight Royce Gracie at Pride 2, the UFC sued him for breach of contract in New York, leading to a months-long legal battle[40:18]
• During the delay, Royce got hurt and pulled out, so Kerr instead fought Branko at Pride 2; he notes posters still exist of him vs. Royce that never happened
Kerr reflects that a fight with Royce in the Tokyo Dome, both in their primes, would have been an incredible unknown matchup[40:26]

Weight extremes and the limits of mass

Kerr says at his heaviest he was 280-285 pounds with very low body fat, but cardio became a huge problem at that size[41:11]
He notes that if he didn't finish an opponent quickly at that weight, he was "completely fucked" cardio-wise[41:04]

Training evolution: heart-rate systems, functional conditioning, and overtraining

The Maurice Smith vs. Mark Coleman fight as a paradigm shift

They discuss how Maurice Smith beat Mark Coleman by leveraging superior cardio and game planning with Frank Shamrock[41:52]
• Kerr recalls conversations with Frank about heart-rate training and functional training before such methods were widespread in MMA

Kerr adopting heart-rate-based training in California

Kerr worked with a trainer named TR Goodman on "burst recovery" training and functional conditioning at Gold's Venice[42:38]
He adjusted his ideal fighting weight to 230-240 pounds, finding that lighter weight allowed much better conditioning[44:07]

Abu Dhabi (ADCC), overtraining, and hypoglycemia vs. Fujita

In the period between fighting Enson Inoue and the Pride Grand Prix, Kerr competed in ADCC, winning both his weight class and the absolute division[43:55]
He believes that heavy grappling schedule plus Pride prep left him overtrained and entering the Grand Prix too light and depleted[45:03]
Kerr explains that pre-fight nerves crushed his appetite, and on fight day he had only a small window to eat before nerves made digestion feel impossible[44:52]
He describes his collapse in the Fujita fight as a full hypoglycemic crash-on the documentary he can be heard repeatedly saying "I need sugar"[45:46]

Modern MMA: tactics, wrestlers vs. strikers, and the importance of cardio

General trends in striker vs. wrestler matchups over five rounds

Kerr observes that in title fights, strikers often do well in the first two rounds, but by the third the grappler begins to impose more, and by the fourth and fifth the grappler typically takes over[51:51]
• He attributes this to the grind of wrestling pressure and the cardio demand on a striker trying to stuff repeated takedowns

Energy cost of takedown defense

Joe points out that stuffing takedowns is extremely tiring, and once a fighter is tired, they may mentally choose to accept a takedown just to rest[52:56]
Kerr notes that against some wrestlers, once you're taken down, you will not get back up; you will just be ground into a pulp[53:32]

Turning opponents into wrestlers as a strategy

Kerr says he never aimed to be the best striker or kicker; his "secret sauce" was to force opponents to wrestle him where he had the dominant advantage[53:47]
• The challenge was always how to transition the fight into wrestling exchanges where he knew he could beat people badly

Hamzat Chimaev vs. Dricus du Plessis and elite wrestling gaps

They use Hamzat's domination of reigning champion Dricus du Plessis as an example of a wrestling level so high that the gap may be impossible to close[53:56]
Kerr emphasizes that certain skill gaps-like elite wrestling-cannot be bridged within the limited time span of an MMA career[56:04]

Pioneers, The Ultimate Fighter, and the UFC business evolution

Early low pay and the role of pioneers like Kerr and Coleman

Joe notes that fighters like Kerr and Coleman fought for very little money, often barely getting by, yet paved the way for today's fighters to make millions[57:48]

The Fertittas, Dana White, and saving the UFC

Joe explains that Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta were rabid fans who bought the UFC, went $40 million into debt, and nearly sold before deciding to do The Ultimate Fighter reality show[1:00:23]
Kerr describes riding in a limo from Big Bear to Beverly Hills with Frank and Lorenzo as they picked his brain about Japan and Pride, sensing they were the right new owners[59:56]

The Ultimate Fighter and the Griffin vs. Bonnar fight

Joe recounts how the Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar finale bout on Spike TV kept gaining viewers in real time and is widely credited with breaking the sport wide open[1:02:19]
He says he personally suggested to Dana that both Griffin and Bonnar be given contracts because you couldn't deny either after that performance[1:02:58]
They mention Diego Sanchez also winning his season and Chuck Liddell becoming the perfect, destroyer-style poster boy champion afterward[1:03:56]

Khabib, extreme dominance, and horror injuries

Khabib Nurmagomedov's will-breaking style

They watch and discuss footage of Khabib talking to Michael Johnson mid-beatdown, telling him to quit and acknowledging he deserves a title shot[1:06:47]
Joe cites Khabib smashing Edson Barboza and Conor McGregor as examples of someone who could basically kill a same-sized elite fighter if he chose[1:08:12]

Graphic injuries and what fighters endure

They recall spiral arm fractures from submissions and horrific shin breaks like Anderson Silva's and Chris Weidman's, which Joe says he can only watch once[1:09:19]
• Kerr notes the infection risk when a bone snaps through the calf and contacts a dirty mat

The Smashing Machine documentary: creation, vulnerability, and will-taking mentality

How the original documentary came about

Producer John Greenhalgh, Kerr's former Syracuse wrestling teammate, approached him about a documentary; Kerr initially imagined a simple handheld camcorder project[1:10:01]
Instead, a full crew with expensive cameras and boom mics showed up in Japan for his Valentijn Overeem fight, surprising him with the seriousness of the project[1:11:57]

Capturing contrast between gentle person and savage fighter

Kerr says John wanted to show the stark contrast between his kindness and sensitivity as a person and the brutality of his profession[1:12:42]
Joe recalls how strange it was that this soft-spoken, considerate man turned into a terrifying destroyer in the ring[1:12:14]

Kerr's mindset in fights: taking opponents' will

Kerr always asked himself in a fight, "If it's you and me in a room, who's coming out?" and discovered he had a switch that turned him into someone seeking his opponent's will[1:11:45]
He describes beating Fabio Gurgel mercilessly with headbutts and pressure, yet Gurgel refused to mentally break, frustrating Kerr because he couldn't take his will[1:13:11]
• The next day, Gurgel's wife invited Kerr to lunch, and through an interpreter they had a respectful conversation that set Kerr's standard for professional conduct

Professionalism, image, and early Jiu-Jitsu secrecy

Changing the image from "barstool fighters" to professionals

Kerr wanted to counter the early UFC image of guys scraped off bar stools by dressing sharply, speaking articulately, and presenting himself as a professional[1:17:55]
He wore an expensive Calvin Klein suit in Japan press conferences, even on credit, to justify demanding professional-level pay[1:19:24]

Secrecy in early Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu training

Kerr taught wrestling at Beverly Hills Jiu-Jitsu Club and says some Jiu-Jitsu students would wait until the gym was empty, close blinds, and secretly ask him to teach them wrestling[1:38:16]
• They feared being seen cross-training and labeled traitors within certain Jiu-Jitsu circles
Joe mentions early instances of techniques being withheld, like an instructor refusing to teach the triangle choke after Royce used it on Dan Severn, saying the student "wasn't ready"[1:41:06]

Pay in Pride FC and wild cash payments

Getting paid in cash and smuggling money home

Kerr says his biggest check in Japan was a little over half a million dollars, paid in cash[1:40:08]
He describes going to a hotel room where men in black suits counted out stacks of cash from suitcases, then he scooped $150,000 into a pillowcase to carry it out[1:41:00]
• On one trip he stuffed around $40,000 in each cowboy boot with tube socks and walked through customs, fearing movie-like scenes of being caught
Eventually he learned to declare the cash; customs would have him sign a form and send a record to the IRS[1:42:35]

Negotiating a monthly retainer with Pride

Kerr asked Pride for consistency and negotiated a fixed monthly payment plus a bonus per fight so he could focus entirely on training as a professional[1:43:48]

Grappling base, ADCC, and the value of submission wrestling

Representing wrestling at ADCC

Kerr went to the first ADCC events partly to prove that wrestlers needed to be represented and to show grapplers that without elite wrestling they were missing a key piece[1:49:12]
He focused on control and small, incremental movements rather than big explosions because he didn't know what he might explode into against submissions[1:50:10]

Advice for young fighters: build a grappling foundation first

If a 16-20 year old asked for advice, Kerr says the foundational step should be submission grappling (like ADCC-style no-gi) to learn how to compete without the impact of strikes[1:49:17]
After that base is established, fighters can layer on striking and work in smaller promotions before moving into the UFC-level "fire"[1:51:08]

Leg kicks, calf kicks, and striking innovations

The rise of the calf kick

They note that neither Bisping nor Kerr experienced calf kicks during their careers, and reflect on how recently this debilitating technique emerged[1:57:24]
Kerr is amazed that something as "innocent"-looking as a calf kick can cripple movement in just a few strikes[1:58:42]

Alex Pereira's slick kick defense

Joe describes how Alex Pereira sometimes defends leg kicks by lifting his leg in a hacky-sack-like motion, letting the impact travel with his leg instead of hard-checking with the shin[1:59:29]
Pereira has also spoken about avoiding full checks because they damage both fighters' legs, preferring smoother, less destructive defensive motions[1:58:42]

Addiction, shame, and the decision to show it on film

Early signs of addiction and self-medication

Kerr says he knew from his first drink at age 14-drinking Jack Daniels until drunk-that he reacted differently and had a propensity toward addiction[2:03:36]
He describes how that same all-or-nothing wiring drove his obsessive training and will-taking in fights and later fed into substance abuse[2:05:06]

Opiates, dope sickness, and not understanding withdrawal

Kerr explains he began with pain medication and escalated without understanding what opioid addiction or dope sickness were[2:05:06]
When he tried to stop, he experienced diarrhea, extreme weakness, and could barely walk across a room without sitting; he describes feeling stuck between withdrawal and using to feel normal[2:05:24]

Filming himself using drugs for the documentary

At one point John confronted him, saying he wasn't being truthful; Kerr initially kicked the crew out, then decided to show them exactly what he was doing by filming himself shooting up[2:07:49]
• He says that act made him feel a weight lift, as he had finally told someone the truth about his secret behavior

Seeing the finished documentary and almost vetoing it

Kerr had contractually retained final veto but wasn't shown any footage until he saw the complete cut at Dolby Studios in LA[2:12:25]
After the screening, he walked out saying he needed time to think and considered stopping the film from airing because it felt like too much[2:13:40]
John asked him to consider that if the film saved even one life, it would mean Kerr had lived a worthy life; this idea helped him allow the release[2:13:23]

Audience reactions and recognizing purpose

At the HBO premiere, a 65-year-old grandmother approached him to say the film was beautiful and to talk about her grandson with a drinking problem[2:15:05]
Kerr saw that the film opened a door for people to speak about addiction and felt that if viewers thought "if he can do it, I can ask for help too," then his pain had value[2:16:05]

Sobriety, identity beyond fighting, and building structure

Path to long-term sobriety

Kerr says he now has seven years of continuous sobriety and calls it the foundational piece he had been missing his whole life[2:17:52]
He describes quitting drugs for a few years after the Fujita fight, then relapsing and cycling through starting and stopping before alcohol became the main issue[2:18:55]
He quit drinking the day after the anniversary of his mother's death, honoring a request from his son who asked if he could stop tomorrow; he has stayed sober since that date[2:20:45]

Minute-by-minute early sobriety

In early sobriety, Kerr coped by narrowing his focus, telling himself he only had to get through the next minute, then the next hour, then the day[2:22:07]
He says it took about a year for his mind to "clear out all the bullshit" and reach a neutral baseline from which he could build[2:22:18]

Identity shift: fighting is what he did, not who he is

Kerr emphasizes the crucial realization that fighting was what he did, not who he is, and that he is much more than just a fighter[2:23:29]
He notes that once he accepted this, he could see that his "who I am" identity could have a much longer, healthier career than his fighting self ever could[2:23:47]

Structure, small wins, and emotional sobriety

He talks about needing small daily wins-like doing 45 minutes on a hated cardio machine or being kind to his wife-to keep momentum and self-respect[2:25:08]
Kerr uses the term "emotional sobriety": being emotionally honest with people in his life so his environment doesn't get chaotic and dishonest[2:25:44]

Spirituality, psychedelics, and openness to new ideas

Ibogaine and psychedelic treatments for addiction

Joe describes Ibogaine as a non-recreational, 24-hour psychedelic that seems to literally disrupt addictive brain pathways and has very high success rates for breaking addictions[2:29:09]
He says Texas now has an Ibogaine initiative supported by former governor Rick Perry, particularly to help veterans with addiction and PTSD[2:31:30]

Ayahuasca in Brazil and life-changing ceremonies

Kerr mentions he was supposed to go to Brazil for ayahuasca; a friend told him the jungle ceremony felt like seeing the face of God and was life-changing[2:32:00]

Nature, tree hugging, and disconnection from the stars

Kerr says in recent years he's literally hugged trees and found it feels beautiful, and he values walking barefoot on grass to reconnect[2:35:49]
Joe laments that due to light pollution, people in big cities no longer see the stars regularly, which he believes disconnects them from an essential perspective on life[2:37:44]

Buddhism, chanting, and vibration

Kerr's wife practices Nichiren Buddhism and chants "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" every morning; he chanted with her regularly for the first few years they were together[2:38:56]
He frames chanting and meditation as ways to access different brain states and vibrations, acknowledging that we know very little compared to what ancient cultures experimented with[2:40:00]

Life after fighting: loneliness, retirement timing, and redemption

The loneliness of walking in and out of the ring

Kerr calls the two loneliest places in the world the walk into the ring and the moment after the fight, because in both moments there's no help-only you and what you've done[2:53:37]
He says even wins often felt empty because he immediately felt the need to chase the next thing, never satisfied or "enough"[2:54:32]

When he believes he should have retired

Kerr says in hindsight he should have retired after the Fujita fight and Pride Grand Prix; he imagines it could have been a "mic drop" like Khabib if he'd won and walked away[2:57:37]
He acknowledges that by then something inside him had changed; he no longer had the internal thing he needed to do the job of hurting people that badly[2:57:49]

Final reflections on the new film and gratitude

Kerr says he feels deep gratitude and humility that The Rock, Emily, Benny, and the whole team believed his story was worth telling and invested so much into it[3:03:47]
He frames the film's core as a redemption story, emphasizing that he is grateful to have his health, sobriety, and the chance to share his experience, strength, and hope[3:05:00]
Joe praises the movie, saying The Rock nailed the role and Emily "killed it" portraying the intense, chaotic relationship dynamic before fights[3:03:47]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Foundational skills and fundamentals are what everything else is built on; in MMA that means wrestling and grappling, and in life it means habits, health, and core values.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What are the true foundational skills or habits in your field that you may have been neglecting while chasing more glamorous tactics?
  • • How would your performance change over the next year if you invested seriously in shoring up your fundamentals instead of adding new complexity?
  • • What is one foundational practice (physical, mental, or ethical) you can recommit to daily for the next 30 days?
2

Extreme conditioning and resilience are not accidents-they are the result of intentional, structured work guided by honest feedback about where you're weak.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your life do you tend to back off the metaphorical "gas pedal" because you're afraid of discomfort or fatigue?
  • • How could you design a simple, repeatable training or practice routine that progressively challenges your limits without burning you out?
  • • What small but uncomfortable effort could you add to your daily routine that would compound into greater resilience over time?
3

If your entire identity is tied to one role (like being a fighter, founder, or high performer), losing that role can destroy you; you need an identity and self-worth that endure beyond any single job.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways have you tied your sense of worth to a title, achievement, or role that could disappear?
  • • How might your decisions change if you saw your current work as something you do, not who you are?
  • • What other aspects of yourself-relationships, character traits, creative interests-could you intentionally cultivate so your identity is more balanced?
4

Radical honesty about your struggles, especially with addiction or self-destructive habits, is painful in the short term but can unlock help, reduce shame, and give your experience meaning for others.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is one area of your life where secrecy or shame is keeping you from asking for help or changing course?
  • • How would your relationships shift if you shared a bit more truth about what you're actually struggling with right now?
  • • Who is one trusted person you could talk to this week about something you've been hiding, even if you only share 10% more than usual?
5

Big changes often start by narrowing your focus to the smallest possible next step-surviving the next minute, hour, or day instead of obsessing over the whole mountain.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are you overwhelming yourself by thinking in months and years instead of the next concrete step?
  • • How could you break your current hardest challenge into "next 5 minutes" or "next one action" so it feels doable?
  • • The next time you feel like quitting, what tiny win could you aim for instead of perfection or total transformation?
6

Openness to new knowledge, methods, and even uncomfortable ideas-whether in training, medicine, or spirituality-is a competitive advantage over rigid certainty.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What belief or method are you clinging to mainly because it's familiar, not because it's still serving you?
  • • How could you safely experiment with one new tool, perspective, or practice that challenges your current worldview?
  • • When was the last time you genuinely changed your mind about something important, and what allowed that shift to happen?
7

Daily structure and small, self-chosen challenges (like doing the hard workout you hate) are powerful ways to channel an intense or addictive personality into constructive growth.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where does your personality tend to go "all or nothing," and how might you redirect that energy into something positive instead of destructive?
  • • What one difficult but healthy habit could you turn into a non-negotiable part of your day to give yourself a reliable sense of progress?
  • • How can you design your environment and schedule so that doing the right thing is a little easier and doing the wrong thing is a little harder?

Episode Summary - Notes by Remy

#2384 - Mark Kerr
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