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The Mel Robbins Podcast

The Best Financial Advice You'll Ever Hear

with Morgan Housel

Published September 22, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Mel Robbins interviews financial author Morgan Housel about why financial success is primarily about behavior, expectations, and patience rather than income, education, or math. They explore how comparison, moving goalposts, and status-driven spending keep people broke, and contrast that with using money as a tool for independence and contentment. Housel lays out simple, practical habits-like checking your accounts daily, saving something every time you're paid, and investing patiently-that anyone can adopt regardless of starting point.

Topics Covered

Financial independence Investing Retirement savings Behavioral economics Habits Personal Development Risk and uncertainty Happiness Stress management Relationships

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Financial success depends far more on behavior, expectations, and patience than on income, education, or intelligence.
  • The single biggest force keeping people broke is trying to keep up with others and constantly moving the goalpost of "enough."
  • Every dollar you spend is either to improve your and your family's life or to impress other people-most of whom aren't paying attention to you.
  • Savings are best viewed as buying pieces of your future freedom and independence, not just as delayed consumption.
  • Average investment returns sustained over a long period, through patience and discipline, can outperform most experts.
  • Contentment-being okay with what you have now-is driven by managing expectations, not by endlessly increasing your lifestyle.
  • Small, consistent habits like checking your bank balance daily and saving a percentage of every paycheck can meaningfully change your financial trajectory.
  • Using money as a tool for independence and a better life is more powerful than using it as a yardstick for status.

Podcast Notes

Introduction: Money struggles and why this conversation matters

Common money questions and Mel's past financial crisis

Listeners are asking basic but urgent questions about saving, investing, and breaking bad spending habits[0:13]
• Questions include: "How do I start saving?", "How do I invest when I can barely pay my bills?", "How do I break bad spending habits?", and "What if I'm not making enough to get ahead?"
Mel shares her own experience with extreme debt and financial shame[0:25]
• At one point she was $800,000 in debt, with maxed-out credit cards and a lien on her house, barely getting food on the table
• She describes feeling overwhelmed, ashamed, and lost, believing she might never dig out
Mel positions the episode as help for people currently feeling overwhelmed by money[0:25]
• She explicitly says many listeners feel as she once did and that this episode is designed to help them take control of their financial lives

Introducing Morgan Housel and his books

Mel introduces The Psychology of Money as her favorite money book and credits it with changing her financial life[0:54]
• She has made all three of her kids read the book and recommends it as her go-to money book
Morgan Housel's credentials and new book[4:46]
• He is described as one of the most reputable, trusted, and knowledgeable financial minds, a New York Times bestselling author whose books have sold over 9 million copies and been translated into more than 60 languages
• Mel says The Psychology of Money showed her that doing well with money is not about math but about behavior
• Morgan's new book, The Art of Spending Money, tackles why most people don't know how to spend money or why they spend on "stupid" things
• She notes Morgan is an award-winning columnist at The Wall Street Journal and The Motley Fool and that he flew across the country to be on the show

What is possible if you change your money behavior?

Morgan asserts that feeling wealthy and financially independent is in everyone's control[6:45]
• He emphasizes it does not matter who you are, where you're from, how much you make, your job, or your background
Money success is about behavior, not intelligence or pedigree[7:12]
• He contrasts an "ordinary" person who maybe didn't even graduate high school but has good financial behavior with a Harvard MBA working on Wall Street who can still go broke
• He notes this contrast is unique to money-unlike medicine, where an untrained person can't outperform a Harvard-trained surgeon
Key money behaviors Morgan highlights[8:26]
• Think long-term, be patient, keep expectations in check, avoid constant comparison, and use money as a tool to live a better life instead of a status yardstick
Redefining financial success for most people[10:01]
• Morgan says most people's true goals are stable housing, a cushion for emergencies, a dignified retirement, and time with their kids-not private islands and jets

Expectations, comparison, and the feeling of falling behind

Money as a tool vs. yardstick and the comparison trap

Morgan explains how people use money to measure themselves against others[10:43]
• He notes people ask, "How big is my house relative to my neighbor, coworker, or sibling?" instead of "Is my house comfortable enough for me?"
Social media amplifies unrealistic comparison[11:32]
• Historically, people compared themselves to neighbors and coworkers; now their comparison group is essentially "the most sophisticated algorithm on Instagram or TikTok"
• No matter how well you're doing, you can always find someone online who looks richer, happier, or more beautiful
Example of rising expectations: Morgan's son vs. his own childhood[12:02]
• Morgan says his childhood definition of rich was someone with a new pickup truck, but his nine-year-old son's definition is a private jet and private island influenced by creators like MrBeast

Feeling behind, empathy, and the role of expectations

Morgan starts with empathy for people who feel behind[13:11]
• He acknowledges that homeownership and retirement are objectively harder for many people today, and that fears about money running out are real
Happiness as the gap between expectations and reality[22:04]
• Morgan states, "All happiness is the gap between expectations and reality" and repeats that the wider the gap, the more miserable you feel
Overspending as a product of spiraling expectations[15:18]
• He argues many people in poor retirement or savings situations got there because for years they spent to match inflated expectations and identities they felt they "should" have
• Examples include renting apartments slightly out of budget, traveling, dressing, and eating out in ways that matched an aspirational self-image rather than actual means

Mel's accountability shift and empowerment

Mel confesses past hidden credit card debt[16:22]
• She entered her marriage with $10,000 of credit card debt that her husband didn't know about and continued to hide it
• She describes walking into stores and buying things she didn't need with money she didn't have
She connects outsized expectations to later business and housing losses[17:08]
• When her husband's restaurants failed, they lost their house and savings after years of spending money they didn't have and racking up debt
Relief came from owning responsibility and realizing she could choose better behaviors[17:40]
• Mel describes a turning point where she admitted, "I'm responsible for this mess" and realized that if she had the power to make bad decisions, she had power to make better ones

Why money is such an easy target for expectations

Morgan explains why money goals grow faster than other life goals[18:22]
• He contrasts vague goals like "be a 10% better dad" with simple, quantifiable money goals like upgrading from a one-bedroom to a two-bedroom or getting three new pairs of jeans
Will Smith's realization about money and depression[19:41]
• Morgan recounts Will Smith's reflection that when he was poor and depressed, believing "if only I had more money" gave him hope, but after getting rich and remaining depressed, he lost that hope
Reframing what to do if you feel behind at any age[19:22]
• Mel suggests combining simple behavioral changes (which Morgan calls kindergarten-level) with deeper questions about what hole money is trying to fill

The belief "I'm bad with money" and the sacrifice problem

Challenging the idea that some people are just not good with money

Morgan argues that most people who say "I'm not good with money" are choosing not to improve[23:10]
• He points out that core money tasks-spend less than you make, save the difference, be patient-are simple enough to explain to a five-year-old
He frames the real issue as unwillingness to sacrifice lifestyle[23:22]
• He connects "I'm not good with money" to "I don't want to make the sacrifice" of downshifting lifestyle or enduring short-term hardship

Suffering for a noble financial goal: independence

Morgan notes people will endure hard things for a noble enough goal[25:20]
• He references a musician's observation that everyone loves the story of living in a car to chase a dream but nobody wants to actually live in a car
He defines his own noble financial goal as independence[25:30]
• He says he has no desire for giant houses or flashy cars; he wants to wake up each morning and be able to do whatever he wants, using money as a tool to support that
Examples of independence without high net worth[25:57]
• Morgan cites his grandmother-in-law, who had very little money but was beholden to no one and lived an amazing life because of her independence
• He contrasts her with billionaires who are psychically and practically beholden to others and lack independence despite great wealth

Status vs. utility: How we spend and who we impress

Thought experiment: Living on a deserted island

Morgan imagines choosing a lifestyle if no one could see your house or car[27:45]
• He says in that scenario he and most people would instantly shift from seeking status to seeking utility in their purchases

Envy, partial information, and misreading others' lives

We envy visible outcomes but can't see the hidden costs[27:58]
• Morgan quotes comedian Jimmy Carr: "Everybody is jealous of what you've got. Nobody is jealous of how you got it."
• He notes we see houses, cars, and clothes but not the stress, work, and tradeoffs required to get them

The number one decision keeping people broke: keeping up with others

Morgan names relentless comparison and lifestyle chasing as the top wealth-killer[28:13]
• He says the treadmill of "if only I had this, then I'd be content" has no end, regardless of income level
He illustrates how wants, not needs, dominate modern spending[30:37]
• Mel points out that most people can walk into their closet and see only about a dozen items they wear, with the rest purchased based on fleeting wants or attempts to impress

Moving goalposts, contentment, and redefining "enough"

Reading from "The Psychology of Money" on moving goalposts

Mel reads Morgan's passage about the hardest financial skill being getting the goalpost to stop moving[36:54]
• The passage warns that if expectations rise with results, you never feel progress, and you may take bigger risks to chase moving goals
Morgan admits he wrote that from self-reflection[37:46]
• He says many of his writings start with looking in the mirror at his own envy and out-of-control expectations rather than claiming mastery

Rich vs. happy: What parents really want for their kids

Morgan highlights parents' stated priorities[41:01]
• He notes that when asked what they want for their kids, most parents say they want them to be happy, and only secondarily mention rich and successful
He points out parents implicitly recognize the difference between rich and happy[41:16]
• He suggests parents know from their own experience that money and happiness are not the same and that moderate material success can still be paired with a good life

Why we spend: Two buckets for every dollar

Morgan's two buckets for spending decisions

He asserts every dollar you spend falls into one of two categories[42:03]
• Bucket one: spending that makes you and your family happier; bucket two: spending to impress other people, most of whom are strangers
Examples of each spending bucket[42:07]
• Buying food is clearly for you and your family; buying new clothes or a car is often heavily about impressing others

Valet parking story: People notice the car, not the driver

Morgan's experience as a valet at a five-star Los Angeles hotel[43:52]
• As a 19-year-old valet, he loved driving Ferraris and Lamborghinis and observing wealthy guests' behavior
Key realization: People project themselves into the driver's seat[44:15]
• He remembers admiring fancy cars but never thinking "that driver is cool"; instead he imagined himself in the car and assumed others would admire him
• He concludes that no one is thinking about you as much as you are; they're thinking about themselves

What actually impresses the people who matter

Morgan notes his wife doesn't care what car he drives or jeans he buys[45:09]
• What she cares about is whether he is a good dad, spouse, and friend-patient, understanding, and helpful
He argues that if you want strangers to be impressed, it will be by your kindness and helpfulness, not your possessions[45:46]

Breaking bad spending habits and reclaiming your future

Diagnosing bad spending: What hole are you trying to fill?

Morgan recommends starting with the question "Why do I have bad spending habits?"[47:11]
• He suggests asking what emotional hole you're trying to fill and what past purchases actually did for your happiness
Binge spending as stress relief that backfires[47:49]
• He says binge spending is often a relief valve where people momentarily think "if I bought these things, my problems would go away" but it rarely fills emotional holes

Debt as selling your future vs. savings as buying independence

Debt payments outlast the short happiness of new purchases[48:02]
• Morgan notes that a new sweater might give days of pleasure, but debt to finance it can linger for months, years, or decades
He reframes each dollar of debt and each dollar of savings[49:06]
• Every dollar of debt is a piece of your future someone else owns; every dollar of savings is a piece of your future that you own
• He says since age 17 he has viewed each dollar saved, even $1, as a dollar of future independence gained

Investing, compounding, and using money to sleep at night

Investing after debt: fear of losing money

Mel shares that after climbing out of $800,000 in debt over 15 years, she now feels fearful of risk[1:00:26]
• She describes the grind as years of clawing at bills, saving more than she spent, and lowering expectations
Morgan says it's still appropriate to invest, but the key question is "How much?"[1:01:08]
• He shares that he likely has around half of his net worth in the stock market, less than many advisors would recommend, because he has a strong worst-case-scenario mindset

Maximizing for sleep vs. maximizing returns

Morgan's primary goal is to sleep well at night[1:02:02]
• He says he has no desire for his tombstone to say he outperformed an index; he wants money to help him and his family sleep well
He keeps significant amounts in cash and bonds as a cushion[1:03:25]
• He notes that during crashes like 2008 and 2020, he was relatively unaffected emotionally because he was never fully invested

Morgan's simple investment approach

He invests mainly in low-cost index funds and holds for life[1:04:51]
• He owns index funds that hold practically all public companies, invests every month or quarter, and has never sold in any significant way
His net worth is intentionally simple[1:05:43]
• He says his net worth is essentially a house, cash, broad index funds, and shares of Markel (where he is on the board of directors)
He warns that more complex portfolios are harder to stick with long term[1:06:48]

Compounding and the power of average returns over long periods

Morgan explains compound interest in simple terms[1:06:23]
• He uses an example of $100 earning 10% to become $110, then $121, with gains growing because you earn returns on prior gains
Warren Buffett as a compounding example[1:08:26]
• Morgan notes that about 99% of Buffett's net worth was accumulated after his 60th birthday, highlighting how time magnifies compounding
Average investor + long time horizon can beat experts[1:09:16]
• He says if you can be an average investor for an above-average period of time, you can achieve incredible returns and even beat professionals
His parents' 40-year investing example[1:10:40]
• His parents, with no special financial knowledge, have invested a bit every month for 40 years and rarely sold, putting them in the top tier of returns compared to professional managers

Investing risk as the "fee" for higher returns

Morgan frames volatility and uncertainty as the price of admission[1:12:14]
• He says the "fee" for long-term high returns in the stock market is tolerating ongoing volatility and not knowing when returns will show up
He contrasts this with stable but low-return assets[1:12:38]
• Savings accounts have no volatility but low returns; these are the returns you "deserve" for avoiding risk

Rich vs. wealthy and the Vanderbilt cautionary tale

Morgan's definitions: rich vs. wealthy

Being rich means having enough income to pay for your current lifestyle[1:14:02]
• He describes rich as having money in the bank to make mortgage, car, and lifestyle payments
Being wealthy means having independence through unspent assets[1:14:30]
• Wealth is savings and investments not being spent-money that buys you the ability to live on your own terms

Vanderbilts vs. Anderson Cooper

The Vanderbilt heirs as an example of rich but not independent[1:14:10]
• Cornelius Vanderbilt's fortune (adjusted to about half a trillion dollars) was largely passed to heirs who were expected to live the most ostentatious lives possible
• Morgan says biographies show those heirs were almost uniformly miserable despite extreme riches
Anderson Cooper as the first heir with no major trust fund[1:16:16]
• Morgan notes that Anderson Cooper, whose mother Gloria Vanderbilt was the last with a big trust fund, has talked about how being forced to make his own way was likely a good thing
• He suggests Anderson may be one of the happiest of the line because he had to build his own career and identity

Getting started: habits, saving, and the paycheck rule

The problem is often ignorance, not intelligence

Morgan observes that many people simply don't know what they earn and spend[1:17:54]
• He says if you ask most people their monthly income and expenses, they either can't answer or will answer incorrectly

Daily bank balance check as a foundational habit

He recommends checking your bank account balance every day[1:18:56]
• He frames it as a 10-second habit that builds awareness of money flowing in and out, similar in effect to balancing a checkbook

Financial independence exists on a spectrum

Morgan rejects the idea that independence is all-or-nothing[1:19:54]
• He argues that every dollar you save moves you incrementally toward independence, offering slightly more cushion against layoffs, medical bills, or car breakdowns

Treating savings as a mandatory expense

Morgan says he views savings like an expense similar to rent or food[1:20:48]
• He warns that if you treat savings as a "nice to have" optional extra, you will almost certainly skip it
He links the need for savings to life's fragility[1:22:38]
• He points out that income, careers, the economy, and geopolitics are more fragile than we admit, so saving is mandatory rather than optional

Mel's 10% rule to build the savings habit

Mel suggests saving 10% of any money you receive[1:23:44]
• Examples include saving $5 from $50 in tips or $10 from $100 for dog-sitting
Morgan emphasizes that anything is better than nothing[1:23:39]
• He recalls transferring as little as $5, $10, or $15 from checking to savings as a teenager and seeing that as future meals and security

Automation to remove emotion from saving and investing

Morgan recommends automating transfers to savings[1:25:02]
• He argues that because everyone is emotional and biased, automation increases the odds that saving and investing actually happen consistently

Role models of small savings and behavior-driven wealth

Ronald Read: Janitor and gas station attendant turned millionaire

Morgan tells the story of Ronald Read's unexpected fortune[1:25:27]
• Read came from a very humble, possibly impoverished background and worked as a janitor and gas station attendant his whole life
• When he died, he left millions of dollars to charity, shocking people who wondered how he had accumulated such wealth
Read's simple strategy: save a little, invest, and wait[1:27:00]
• Morgan explains that Read saved small amounts ($10, $20, maybe $100), invested in the stock market, and left it alone for around 70 years
• He says this story proves that with the right behavior and mindset, you don't need high income or special knowledge to build meaningful wealth

Enough vs. more, gratitude, and changing your money story

Desiring less vs. gaining more money

Mel reads from "The Art of Spending Money" about desiring less[1:29:17]
• The passage says desiring less can impact well-being as much as gaining more money and that contentment lets you truly enjoy your home, clothes, and vacations
Morgan clarifies that "enough" doesn't mean no ambition[1:29:04]
• He wants to work hard and earn more each year, but equally wants to manage his expectations and be appreciative of what he already has

Gratitude and Stephen Hawking's expectations reset

Morgan cites therapists' emphasis on gratitude[1:29:57]
• He notes that despite sounding "mushy," gratitude and controlled expectations are extremely powerful in psychology
Stephen Hawking's quote on expectations reduced to zero[1:30:35]
• Hawking, despite severe disability, said his expectations were reduced to zero at 21, so everything since has been a bonus, which Morgan frames as a powerful reorientation

House fire story: Realizing what truly matters

Morgan shares a story of a family who lost their home to fire[1:31:55]
• After their house burned down, the mother told her husband and kids that everything they needed to be happy was still there in the room-their family
He uses this to illustrate that many of the tools for happiness are already present in people's lives[1:32:37]

Changing your story about money

Morgan's core money story: tool vs. yardstick[1:29:10]
• He says money can make you happier, but not in the way or to the extent people expect, and stresses using it as a tool for a better life rather than a status metric
He warns against equating net worth with self-worth[1:29:47]
• He describes the "broken and damaging" story that society often tells: that your net worth equals your self-worth

One key action: realizing others aren't thinking about you

Morgan's single most important takeaway[1:30:17]
• He advises listeners to internalize that other people are not thinking about them nearly as much as they think, because others are consumed with their own concerns
He ties this directly to controlling expectations and escaping status-driven spending[1:30:35]

Closing reflections and disclaimer

Mel's closing encouragement

Mel thanks Morgan and reiterates the themes of independence and freedom[1:31:17]
• She tells listeners that applying Morgan's simple advice will increase both independence and a sense of freedom "here" (mentally)
She expresses personal belief in listeners' ability to create a better life if they apply the lessons[1:31:27]

Legal disclaimer about the podcast's purpose

Mel clarifies that the podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes[1:32:41]
• She states she is not a licensed therapist and that the podcast is not a substitute for professional advice from physicians, coaches, psychotherapists, or other qualified professionals

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Financial success is driven primarily by behavior-patience, controlled expectations, and consistent saving and investing-rather than intelligence, education, or income level.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What specific financial behaviors (not knowledge gaps) are currently holding me back the most?
  • • How could I structure my day or week so that patience and consistency with money become easier to practice?
  • • What is one small behavior change I can implement this month (like automating a transfer or setting a savings target) that would meaningfully improve my financial trajectory over the next year?
2

Constant comparison and moving goalposts keep you feeling behind; managing your expectations and defining "enough" for yourself is essential to feeling wealthy and content.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my life am I most likely to compare myself to others and feel like I'm falling behind financially?
  • • How might my daily emotions change if I shifted my focus from what I don't have to being grateful for what I already do have?
  • • What would a clear, personal definition of "enough" look like for me in housing, lifestyle, and income over the next five years?
3

Every spending decision either serves your and your family's genuine well-being or attempts to impress others who are mostly not paying attention, so aligning spending with your own values is critical.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When I review my recent purchases, which ones were truly for my well-being and which were mainly about how I hoped others would see me?
  • • How could I pause or create a simple question to ask myself before purchases so I can better separate "for me" from "for appearances" spending?
  • • What categories of spending would I immediately reduce or eliminate if no one else could ever see what I owned or where I vacationed?
4

Savings and long-term investing are best understood as buying pieces of your future freedom and peace of mind, not just as delayed consumption.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If I thought of every saved dollar as a small increase in my future freedom, how would that change my motivation to save right now?
  • • In what situations over the next few years would I most want the security of having savings or investments to fall back on?
  • • What specific amount or percentage could I start saving from each paycheck-no matter how small-that I can realistically maintain for the next 12 months?
5

Using money as a tool to maximize independence and quality of life, rather than as a yardstick for status, leads to better decisions and less anxiety.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What does genuine independence look like for me (e.g., schedule control, location flexibility, fewer financial obligations)?
  • • How might my financial choices shift if my primary goal were "more freedom" rather than "more visible success"?
  • • Which current expenses or financial commitments are reducing my independence, and what is one step I could take to start loosening their grip?
6

Small, simple habits-like checking your accounts daily, automating savings, and investing in broad index funds-are powerful when sustained over decades.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which single money habit (daily balance check, automatic transfer, or regular investment) would be easiest for me to start this week?
  • • How could I simplify my financial setup so it becomes easier to stick with for 10-20 years without constant tinkering?
  • • What reminder, system, or automation could I put in place in the next seven days to make my chosen habit happen without relying on willpower alone?

Episode Summary - Notes by Micah

The Best Financial Advice You'll Ever Hear
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