Get Your Weekly Digest

Receive the best podcast summaries and insights delivered to your inbox every week.

We respect your privacy. Unsubscribe anytime.

The Mel Robbins Podcast

Feel Better Now: Neurosurgeon Reveals the New Science of Healing Your Body & Stopping Pain Today

with Sanjay Gupta

Published October 16, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Mel Robbins speaks with neurosurgeon and CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta about the new science of pain, why chronic pain develops, and how it can often be reduced or prevented. They explore how pain is generated in the brain, the role of factors like sleep, mood, stress, and prior pain experiences, and why movement, meditation, and other non-drug approaches can change the brain's pain circuits. Gupta shares research-backed strategies such as the MEAT protocol, virtual reality, nerve blocks, and pain journaling, along with his wife Rebecca's long journey with chronic pain, to offer hope and practical tools for listeners.

Topics Covered

Chronic pain Neuroplasticity Meditation Sleep Mental health Anxiety Stress management Inflammation and CRP OxyContin and opioid crisis Back pain

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Chronic pain is extremely common, affecting over 50 million adults in the U.S., and for many it becomes a daily, life-altering experience.
  • Pain is an integrated brain-based experience influenced not just by tissue injury but by sleep, mood, stress, prior pain, and overall life context.
  • Addressing "baggage" such as depression, anxiety, poor sleep, and past pain is often as important as treating the physical site of pain.
  • Movement and early mobilization (the MEAT protocol) after many injuries can reduce the risk of chronic pain more effectively than prolonged rest and icing.
  • The body has its own endogenous opioid system that can reduce pain, dampen painful memories, and improve mood, and can be activated by approaches like virtual reality and meditation.
  • Meditation in controlled experiments has reduced pain and unpleasantness scores to an extent comparable to a low dose of OxyContin during painful stimuli.
  • Opioids can reduce pain yet worsen mood and strengthen painful memories, which may help explain why they can entrench chronic pain rather than resolve it.
  • Understanding that all pain is processed in the brain-without dismissing its reality-opens up new avenues for retraining pain circuits and reducing chronic pain.
  • Keeping a detailed pain journal can help identify triggers, patterns, and contexts that worsen or improve pain, making you an active partner in treatment.
  • Once serious structural problems are ruled out, graded movement, stretching, and activity are generally helpful and not harmful, even if pain initially makes you fearful.

Podcast Notes

Intro: Mel's personal pain and framing the conversation

Mel describes her current shoulder and nerve pain

She explains that in the past pain made her feel helpless and worried[0:20]
Now she feels empowered because she understands what is happening and what to do, thanks to the upcoming conversation[0:33]

Introduction of Dr. Sanjay Gupta and episode focus

Mel introduces Dr. Sanjay Gupta as one of the world's most respected neurosurgeons and medical experts[0:37]
She frames the episode as revealing new frontiers in healing, pain management, and feeling better in your body starting today[0:50]
Mel highlights that the conversation will be relevant whether listeners have new pain like hers or long-standing issues[1:11]
She promises a list of simple, free lifestyle changes that research shows can eliminate chronic pain over time[0:57]

Formal show opening and detailed guest background

Welcome to new listeners and introduction of topic

Mel welcomes new listeners and those referred by friends, inviting them into the "Mel Robbins Podcast family"[4:37]
She previews that listeners will learn the new science of healing the body, stopping pain, and feeling better now[4:50]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta's professional credentials and history

Gupta is a board-certified neurosurgeon who completed his neurosurgery residency at the University of Michigan[4:57]
He serves as associate chief of neurosurgery at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta and professor of neurosurgery at Emory University School of Medicine[5:03]
For over 20 years he has been CNN's chief medical correspondent, breaking down major medical stories[5:15]
Mel and Gupta first met as colleagues at CNN and became friends[5:21]

Examples of Gupta's service and commitment to patients

After the Haiti earthquake, Gupta continued flying down on weekends for two years to perform surgeries, then returned to work on Mondays[5:39]
When Mel's father needed life-saving brain surgery at the University of Michigan, Gupta checked in with her frequently as a friend[5:45]
He turned down an invitation to become U.S. Surgeon General because he wanted to keep practicing as a neurosurgeon[5:57]
He has written five New York Times bestselling books and is now in Boston to unpack new science from his book "It Doesn't Have to Hurt: Your Smart Guide to a Pain-Free Life"[6:21]

Setting expectations: What could change if you apply this science?

Gupta on what could be different in listeners' lives

Gupta says most people will experience pain at some point, but it does not have to become chronic[7:16]
He describes chronic pain as a "memory loop" in the brain that keeps getting replayed, and notes that in the last decade we've learned a lot about preventing that[7:32]
If he could extend his book title, he would say "It Doesn't Have to Hurt as Much or as Long"[7:50]

Understanding pain: acute vs chronic and types of chronic pain

Definitions of acute and chronic pain

Gupta defines acute pain as pain felt in the moment, such as touching a hot pan or stubbing a toe[8:00]
Chronic pain is pain that lasts beyond the initial insult, when there is no ongoing injury but pain continues[8:10]
A common medical benchmark: pain every day for three months, or every other day for six months, is considered chronic[8:24]

Examples of chronic pain conditions

From head to toe, chronic pain can include migraines and headaches[8:40]
Facial pain examples include trigeminal neuralgia and TMJ[8:48]
Most joints such as shoulders, elbows, hips, knees, and ankles can be sources of chronic pain[9:00]
The back and neck are major chronic pain sources, often in body areas that move a lot but then stop moving because of pain[9:00]

Prevalence and impact of chronic pain

Gupta was surprised by the magnitude of the problem: chronic pain affects about 1 in 5 to 1 in 4 people in the U.S.[9:14]
Over 50 million adults are dealing with chronic pain defined as pain every day for more than three months[9:36]
For many, the pain lasts decades and becomes a daily negotiation that dominates their lives[9:51]
Around 17 million people have chronic pain that completely interferes with their ability to work, go to school, or maintain relationships[10:13]

Why chronic pain matters even if you don't have it now

Chronic pain as a fast-growing condition

Gupta states that chronic pain is now the fastest growing condition in the United States[11:05]
It is growing faster than dementia, diabetes, and cancer[11:05]
He notes that although some people may never develop chronic pain, the likelihood is increasing[11:16]

Pain as a reflection of the body's integrated system

Gupta explains that pain reflects the entire integrated system of the body, not just a local injury[11:26]
He describes nociceptors (pain receptors), tendons, spinal cord pathways, and brain processing as a fully integrated network[11:43]
If that system is not working well, you are likely to hurt more[11:53]
He notes that the same hammer injury to a finger could feel very different from one day to the next depending on sleep, stress, weather, past pain, depression, or anxiety[12:15]

Lifestyle and context change pain experience

Mel restates his point with an example: hitting her thumb on a "good" day versus a stressed, sleep-deprived day[12:11]
Gupta confirms that evidence shows if you are not optimized in your life, the exact same injury will hurt more[13:20]
Given two patients with the same x-ray finding, other factors can predict who will feel more pain and who is more likely to develop chronic pain[13:30]

Holistic optimization as part of pain treatment

Gupta argues that we should think of chronic pain like other chronic diseases such as diabetes or heart disease[14:44]
Factors like overall inflammation, physical activity, strength of muscles and tendons, and mental health affect how much an injury hurts[15:14]
He highlights that the idea that lack of depression leading to lower pain is a newer revelation for many[13:46]
He quotes another doctor: "Chronic pain hardly ever occurs in isolation. It always comes with baggage attached."[15:43]
By "baggage" he includes depression, anxiety, and poor sleep, and emphasizes you must address the baggage as much as the pain[15:56]
Many pain clinics have psychologists on staff, sometimes as the first clinician to see chronic pain patients[16:06]
He says traditional care often keeps treating chronic pain like acute pain (meds and procedures) without addressing the accumulated baggage[16:26]

Psychological dimensions of pain, baggage, and controversial ideas

Two-way relationship between pain and "baggage"

Gupta notes the bi-directional nature: more baggage increases pain, and more pain increases baggage[17:26]
Sleep is a clear example: people say they don't sleep because of pain, but poor sleep also heightens pain[17:48]
When asked how to untangle whether sleep or pain comes first, he says you must address both rather than just pain[17:51]

Monotherapy vs multi-factor approaches

Gupta criticizes a "monotherapy" culture that tries to identify and treat a single problem elegantly[18:02]
Studies show that treating sleep as a primary focus can greatly reduce pain scores in chronic pain patients[18:26]
He underscores that simply improving sleep, independently of pain medications, can measurably lessen pain[19:08]

Cultural attitudes, opioids, and over-treatment of pain

Treating symptoms vs root causes

Gupta says society treats symptoms far more than root causes, and pain is the best example[18:48]
He notes that the U.S. is less than 5% of the world population but uses 90% of the world's pain medications[19:01]
This suggests a cultural "deep disdain" for pain and a willingness to do almost anything to eliminate it[19:15]

High rates of spinal surgery

The U.S. did 1.2 million spinal operations in the last year referenced, while the UK did about 50,000 despite having a quarter of the population[19:26]
Adjusting for population, the UK performs spinal surgery at roughly one-sixth the U.S. rate[20:51]
Gupta concludes that the U.S. over-treats pain, over-operates, and culturally behaves in ways other places do not[20:51]

Opioid epidemic and pain as fifth vital sign

Although his book is not about the opioid epidemic, he says you cannot discuss pain in the U.S. without addressing it[19:56]
He recalls that 80-90% of global opioid consumption was in the U.S.[20:06]
Pain became the "fifth vital sign" and was given equal status with measures like heart rate and respirations in ER evaluations[20:19]
Patients were asked about pain even when they came in for issues like colds, driving a surge in opioid prescribing when it wasn't always necessary[20:26]

Optimistic reframing of chronic pain treatment

Mel reframes Gupta's case: many have been over-medicated and impacted by pain, but new research offers additional options beyond what they've been told[21:10]
Gupta agrees and emphasizes that there are exciting, hopeful developments for people in pain and their loved ones[21:16]

New frontiers in pain treatment: high-tech and rediscovered modalities

Two broad areas Gupta is excited about

First, high-tech innovative work in neuroscience and pain modulation that he found mind-blowing even after 25 years in the field[22:07]
Second, non-opioid modalities that existed for a long time but were underused because opioids "sucked up all the oxygen" for 25 years[22:18]
He notes opioids were given for almost everything-kidney stones, dental procedures, hip fractures-so other treatments were neglected[22:26]

Nerve blocks for acute injuries

He gives the example of hip fractures: such patients historically almost surely received opioids[22:56]
Now many ERs use nerve blocks around the hip, which take about 10 minutes and can drop pain scores to zero[23:07]
Effective nerve blocks can eliminate the need for opioids afterward because they remove the acute pain syndrome[22:56]

Opioid-optimized ERs and virtual reality for pain

Gupta visited Maimonides Medical Center in Brooklyn, a level one trauma center that champions "opioid-optimized" ERs[23:26]
"Opioid-optimized" means opioids are a last resort rather than first-line treatment, though not completely eliminated[23:39]
They use virtual reality for pain: a 76-year-old woman with severe knee pain used VR goggles for 20 minutes and her pain dropped from about 8 to 3[23:50]

How virtual reality may work for pain relief

Gupta says many attribute VR's effect to distraction, but he thinks there is more going on[24:13]
Being immersed on an Indonesian beach in VR likely lowers stress and releases feel-good hormones[24:26]
He explains the body has an endogenous opioid system-its own ability to make opioids-which inspired pharmaceutical opioids[24:37]
He contrasts "opioids you take" with "opioids you make": taken opioids reduce pain but enhance memory of painful experiences and decrease mood[24:56]
People addicted to opioids often take them not to get high but to avoid feeling terrible, showing how opioids lower mood[24:56]
In contrast, natural endogenous opioids reduce pain, inhibit memory of painful experiences, and improve mood[25:46]
He believes modalities like VR likely work by activating the body's own opioid system, helping the body do its job[26:00]

Placebo effect, expectation, and meditation as powerful pain modulators

Endogenous opioids and the placebo effect

Gupta notes that many refer to the endogenous opioid system as part of the placebo effect[27:20]
He argues that placebos can work: people given a sugar pill may improve because they expect relief[27:35]
Expectation that something will help leads the body to create substances that make you feel better, likely via the endogenous opioid system[28:08]

Meditation experiment for pain relief (MORE protocol)

Gupta became interested in meditation as a pain intervention and visited researchers at UC San Diego led by Eric Garland[28:36]
They attach heating filaments to the arm that become extremely hot-close to burning but not actually causing burns[28:43]
Participants sit pre-meditation while pain and unpleasantness scores are measured, then undergo a specific guided meditation[29:12]
The protocol is called MORE: Mindfulness Oriented Recovery Enhancement[29:18]
Participants continue meditating as the heat stimulus is applied again, and researchers compare pain and unpleasantness scores[29:26]
Gupta personally experienced his pain score drop from 7.4 to 2, and his unpleasantness from 5 to 1.8 during meditation[29:41]
Garland's team compared this relief to other known treatments and found it comparable to 5 mg of OxyContin[30:19]
Gupta clarifies that meditation's pain relief, like OxyContin's, doesn't last forever, but during use it can significantly lower scores[30:19]
He emphasizes that meditation changes the brain measurably and is an option within reach for many people[31:03]

Pain lives in the brain: memory loops and phantom pain

Clarifying "all pain resides in the brain" vs "it's all in your head"

Gupta stresses that saying all pain resides in the brain is not the same as dismissing it as "all in your head"[36:13]
He states plainly that pain is in the brain: if the brain does not decide you have pain, you do not experience pain[36:32]
The flip side is also true: the brain can decide you have pain even when there is no limb or ongoing injury[36:36]
Examples include phantom limb pain (pain in a missing limb) and complex regional pain syndrome, where hands or feet hurt without obvious trauma[36:55]

Why the body might keep replaying pain loops

Gupta references Bessel van der Kolk and "The Body Keeps the Score" to suggest that something else in a person's life may underlie persistent pain loops[37:38]
He notes that such contributing events may not be in conscious awareness, while the person focuses only on the symptom (e.g., jaw pain)[37:55]
He highlights that people often try to treat symptoms instead of causes, and may be unable to identify causes themselves[37:38]

Empowering reframe: working on memory loops, not just body parts

Mel says people naturally want to "defend" their pain because it feels real, but asks listeners to consider that part of the solution may be in addressing the brain's memory loop[38:25]
She points out that this opens access to treatment avenues beyond just fixing a back, leg, or neck[38:19]

Gupta's written description of pain circuitry and brain rewiring

Mel reads from page 9 of Gupta's book: the brain creates pain from a wide array of stimuli-biological, psychological, social, emotional, environmental, and cultural[38:47]
The passage notes that as we now know the brain can be nurtured and optimized at any age, evidence also shows it can rewire its pain circuitry[39:06]
The book claims growing evidence that neural circuitry for pain can be changed to reduce intensity or duration, and potentially eliminate pain altogether[39:13]

Neuroplasticity, pain circuits, and brain changes in chronic pain

Neuroplasticity as neutral and dependent on focus

Gupta explains neuroplasticity using the phrase "neurons that fire together, wire together" from Hebb[39:51]
He emphasizes neuroplasticity is neutral: not inherently good or bad; it follows what you repeatedly focus on[39:55]
Hyper-focusing on pain repeatedly fires those neurons together, strengthening the pain-related circuits and memory loops[40:05]

Brain regions involved in pain and how they change

Pain circuits travel through many brain areas including the amygdala (emotional center), prefrontal cortex (judgment), and hippocampus (memory)[40:20]
In chronic pain patients, the amygdala tends to be larger and the prefrontal cortex tends to be smaller, affecting emotion and judgment[40:25]
The hippocampal involvement means past pain experiences are strongly remembered and can amplify current pain episodes[40:40]
Gupta has seen patients seemingly jump from low to high pain while just sitting in his office, illustrating how internal circuits can suddenly amplify pain[41:42]

Purpose of pain and the brain's decision-making process

Pain as warning and lesson vs chronic glitch

Gupta describes acute pain as a teaching signal or warning system: don't drop a vase on your foot, don't touch a hot pan, don't stub your toe[41:50]
He likens the brain to a user scrolling a social media feed, rapidly deciding if a stimulus is real, serious, and how much to care about it[42:11]
The brain factors in whether this has happened before, how much it hurt last time, and whether there is depression or anxiety[42:31]
Pain serves as an alarm that prompts action-moving away, seeking help, or enlisting others if the threat is serious[43:16]

Dramatic demonstration: the dummy hand experiment

How the fake-hand illusion shows pain is brain-generated

Gupta describes an experiment where your real hand is hidden and a dummy hand is placed in front of you[44:33]
Researchers touch both the dummy and real hand synchronously so that the brain maps the dummy hand as its own[44:26]
Once the illusion is established, the experimenter suddenly hits the dummy hand with a hammer, and participants react with pain and pulling back[44:46]
Gupta says this tricks the brain and demonstrates that all pain exists in the brain: the brain decided it hurt even though the dummy hand wasn't the real hand[45:03]

Structural vs non-structural pain and the example of Rich Roll

Structural problems continuously triggering pain receptors

Gupta distinguishes between pain from true structural problems (like a disc problem or arthritis) and pain without ongoing physical insult[49:16]
Structural problems continuously activate pain receptors, making them different from conditions where no injury is visible[49:30]

Rich Roll's spine surgery and chronic pain baggage

Gupta describes Rich Roll as an Ultraman athlete who had severe spine problems that required front and back surgery[49:54]
Rich had chronic pain since around 2012, and Gupta notes that 13 years of chronic pain accumulated a lot of baggage[50:20]
Even someone extremely fit and resilient like Rich experienced prolonged post-op pain recovery because the baggage wasn't addressed earlier[50:14]
Gupta believes Rich is now intentionally addressing that baggage and starting to get more pain relief[50:44]

What counts as "baggage" that worsens or maintains pain

Key categories of baggage associated with chronic pain

Previous history of pain is a major factor; people with past pain have a relationship with pain that can amplify future experiences[51:42]
Depression: about 40% of people with chronic pain also have depression[51:53]
Anxiety is another frequent co-factor, often untreated or partially treated[51:58]
Poor sleep is both a consequence and a cause; pain worsens sleep and poor sleep worsens pain[52:12]
Gupta also emphasizes how we move, how we nourish ourselves, and how we rest as important for chronic diseases and pain[52:47]

Movement vs rest: challenging the usual advice

He notes that people with pain are often told not to move and to stay still, but data show this is usually not right[52:55]
He clarifies if you have a clearly broken limb you'll need to protect it, but for most other issues movement is beneficial[53:14]

MEAT protocol vs RICE: reconsidering acute injury management

Definition of MEAT and contrast with RICE

RICE stands for Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation, commonly advised after sprains[53:31]
MEAT is a countermeasure acronym: Mobilizing, Exercising, Analgesia, and Treatment (e.g., physical therapy)[53:53]
MEAT focuses on continuing movement and active care rather than immobilization[53:44]

Why less inflammation at injury time predicted more chronic pain

Gupta sought to answer which patients are more likely to develop chronic pain after injury[54:19]
Researchers found that patients with the lowest inflammation levels at the time of injury were most likely to develop chronic pain[54:19]
Although people assume reducing inflammation is always good, this data suggested that robust early inflammation was protective[54:39]
He explains that inflammatory swelling reflects healing molecules being sent to the injury, and the body is good at this if allowed to do its job[56:16]
By aggressively reducing inflammation with rest, ice, compression, and elevation, we may spread pain out over weeks or months instead of resolving it sooner[55:22]
He summarizes the tradeoff: you will hurt a certain amount; MEAT may mean hurting more in the short term but less likely to develop chronic pain[55:49]

Movement, stretching, and everyday stiffness

Gupta describes movement as getting up, walking around, and not overly resting the injured area[56:06]
Mel connects this to common experience: sitting makes stiffness worse, stretching and movement quickly make the body feel better[57:16]
Gupta agrees and notes that older adults who keep moving are far less likely to have chronic pain[57:28]

Retraining the brain: pain journaling and identifying triggers

Using a pain journal to map patterns and triggers

Gupta says you are the best judge of how to retrain your brain and recommends paying close attention to pain patterns[57:44]
He suggests keeping a pain journal to identify when pain spikes, what times of day are worse, and what makes it better or worse[58:32]
Mel suggests another benefit: noticing when you are not in pain, rather than assuming you hurt all the time[57:56]
Gupta emphasizes finding correlations: e.g., if pain always worsens after a stressful phone call, that is critical information[58:39]
He mentions triggers such as pain being worse in the morning vs night, or improving during certain activities[58:32]

Brain training via meditation and other tools

Gupta reiterates he was initially skeptical as a neurosurgeon that meditation could meaningfully change pain[1:00:17]
He notes that research now shows meditation objectively and measurably changes the brain, including thickening areas that help reduce chronic pain[59:56]
He underscores that such brain training can both provide immediate relief during practice and lower pain long-term[59:59]

Back pain: sitting, axial loading, and safe movement

Back pain evaluation and general advice

Gupta advises first getting back pain evaluated to rule out structural problems like the kind Rich Roll had[1:00:17]
He says that in 90% of patients he sees, scans (x-rays, MRIs) come back normal[1:00:35]
People in pain often sit more, but sitting increases axial loading on the spine and can worsen back pain[1:00:22]
He suggests applying the MEAT principles: mobilization, exercise, and understanding nothing "toxic" is happening if serious pathology is ruled out[1:01:05]
He stresses that once structural issues are ruled out, you are not damaging your back by walking; in fact, movement recruits healing molecules to the area[1:01:23]

Addressing fear of movement

When Mel raises the fear of worsening injury, Gupta says he understands and it's a common way of thinking[1:02:28]
He cites studies showing that simply explaining to patients that pain is not from a continuously toxic process can increase their willingness to move[1:02:35]
He recalls data suggesting close to 60% benefit in changing approach and willingness to move when people understand they are not damaging themselves[1:02:42]
He points out that with chronic pain, the alarm system is malfunctioning: something hurts but there is no ongoing structural damage[1:03:04]
Gupta reiterates that if a doctor has said movement is safe, patients should consider moving despite fear, to avoid reinforcing the glitch[1:04:08]

Reframing back pain as a brain glitch once structural issues are ruled out

Distinguishing back pain from the brain's pain center

Mel restates that unless there is an acute injury or confirmed structural issue, the back is just the location but the pain center is in the brain[1:03:35]
She calls the ongoing pain a "glitch" in the brain that can prevent people from doing beneficial movement[1:04:52]
Gupta agrees and notes that evolutionarily it made sense to treat pain as an alarm and rest, but chronic pain was not expected to persist after healing[1:04:55]
He says people in earlier times would have been mystified by pain that stayed after the body had healed[1:05:17]

TMJ, rising jaw pain, and societal drivers

Mel's TMJ experience and evolution over time

Mel shares that she has TMJ and once had surgery 20 years ago because her jaw pain was so bad her jaw would lock[1:06:07]
She notes that as she's prioritized sleep, movement, and stress management, she grinds less and her jaw hurts less[1:06:25]

Gupta on TMJ prevalence and possible causes

Gupta explains TMJ stands for temporomandibular joint and that more than 10 million people in the U.S. have jaw pain per NIH[1:06:43]
He notes TMJ cases have increased significantly over the last couple of decades[1:07:01]
He argues the increase is likely not due to major changes in food but to similar factors driving many diseases: stress and social issues[1:07:35]
As an example, he mentions that socially isolated people have more heart disease even if they eat well, and that isolation can trigger pain centers in the brain[1:07:23]
He suggests that many of the same societal ills driving chronic disease also drive chronic pain, including TMJ[1:07:41]

Seeing a psychologist to help jaw pain

Gupta notes that someone might see a psychologist not just for mental health but specifically to help fix their jaw pain[1:08:47]
Mel calls this a paradigm shift: working on mindset, stress, and resilience could cure or greatly mitigate jaw pain[1:09:33]

Dedication of Gupta's book and his wife Rebecca's pain journey

Reading the book's dedication

Mel reads Gupta's dedication to his three daughters, expressing a desire to prevent them from seeing loved ones in pain and to give them parents who live pain-free, active lives[1:09:21]
The dedication to his wife Rebecca acknowledges that she has lived with physical pain and inspired him to dig deep into what is possible[1:09:28]
He thanks Rebecca for listening, encouraging, and helping make the book the best it could be[1:09:47]
He also dedicates the book to millions of people with chronic pain, recognizing their often invisible challenges and expressing confidence that a path of action, hope, and healing exists[1:10:02]

How Rebecca's pain affected Gupta

Gupta says that with his wife and his mother, pain "came home" and hijacked the lives and identities of people he deeply knows[1:10:19]
He recalls asking Rebecca to rate her pain and realizing his questions seemed silly given her description of immeasurable pain[1:11:26]
He remembers Rebecca showing him one small area on her body and saying that was the only place that did not hurt[1:11:44]
Her journey lasted years, with the medical system trying medications for months at a time due to slow trial cycles in autoimmune and pain treatments[1:12:20]
He describes a cycle where they tried a medicine for months, saw it wasn't working, then went back to try another, repeating this several times[1:12:18]
He notes that at one point her pain was so severe he had to carry her up the stairs when he came home from work[1:14:46]

From severe pain to triathlon: integrating new approaches

Gupta says it wasn't just meditation that helped Rebecca, but a combination of things including movement[1:14:58]
He recalls traveling to many hospitals around the country; most focused on TNF blockers, pain meds, and autoimmune therapies, but she was still in pain[1:15:16]
He concludes the baggage wasn't being addressed and he often felt helpless, which motivated him to explore other approaches including meditation and movement[1:14:58]
Eventually, Rebecca improved enough to participate in the Malibu triathlon with him[1:15:36]
He uses this as evidence that integrating these strategies can work over time, even in severe cases[1:15:24]

Hope and advice for people in chronic pain and their loved ones

Message to discouraged chronic pain sufferers

Gupta acknowledges that about 50 million people raise their hand to say they're in chronic pain, and many more may not due to stigma[1:15:52]
He tells them there is an off-ramp from pain, though no one can say how many exits away it is for a particular person[1:16:15]
He emphasizes that this does not have to be the rest of their life, as long as structural problems are ruled out and ignored factors are addressed[1:16:32]
He calls for addressing all the other things that got ignored, which greatly increases the likelihood of relieving pain[1:16:38]

Key first step: becoming the narrator of your pain

When asked for one thing to start with, Gupta recommends journaling about pain and leaning into understanding it[1:17:07]
He suggests tracing pain (e.g., in the thigh), identifying hot spots, and using many adjectives to describe its quality[1:17:39]
He mentions that some people even draw their pain to better understand its nature and distribution[1:17:49]
He urges people to note what makes pain better or worse (apart from medications) and check for baggage like depression and anxiety[1:17:55]
He frames the human body as a fantastic integrated operating system with a parallel operating system of consciousness, so all these elements must be addressed together[1:18:15]
He concludes that patients are the most reliable narrators of their pain and should embrace an active partner role, not a passive participant role[1:18:29]

Closing reflections and encouragement

Gupta's parting message

Gupta reiterates the core message: "It doesn't have to hurt"[1:18:49]
He adds that while relief requires work, pain does not have to hurt as long or as badly as it currently does[1:18:45]

Mel's closing encouragement and legal disclaimer

Mel thanks listeners for caring enough about themselves to learn this material and expresses excitement about the impact on their lives[1:19:03]
She tells listeners she loves them, believes in them, and believes in their ability to create a better life by prioritizing health[1:19:29]
In a legal disclaimer, she clarifies the podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes, she is not a licensed therapist, and it is not a substitute for professional advice[1:21:01]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Chronic pain is not just a lingering injury in a body part; it is a brain-based memory loop shaped by your entire life context-sleep, mood, stress, past pain, and more-so effective relief often requires addressing these broader factors, not just the hurting area.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What patterns do I notice between my sleep, stress, mood, and the days when my pain feels worst or best?
  • • How might my past experiences with pain be influencing how intensely I experience similar sensations now?
  • • What is one non-physical factor (like sleep, stress, or emotional health) I could start tracking this week alongside my pain levels?
2

Movement and early mobilization after many injuries help the body complete its healing work and can reduce the risk of chronic pain, whereas excessive rest and inflammation-suppression may feel good short term but can prolong or entrench pain.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my life am I defaulting to rest or avoidance when gentle movement might actually support healing?
  • • How could I safely test a small increase in movement-after medical clearance-so I can experience whether it improves or worsens my pain over a week?
  • • What specific daily movement or stretching routine could I commit to for the next 14 days to see how my body responds?
3

Your expectations and attention can powerfully modulate pain through the brain's own endogenous opioid system-tools like meditation, virtual reality, and reframing can measurably reduce pain and unpleasantness without drugs.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What do I currently expect will happen when my pain flares-and how might those expectations be shaping my actual experience?
  • • How could a short, consistent meditation practice fit into my day as a way to experiment with changing my relationship to pain?
  • • What 10-15 minute mind-based practice (such as guided meditation, visualization, or relaxing imagery) could I schedule daily for the next week to test its effect on my pain levels?
4

Pain journaling and detailed self-observation turn you from a passive sufferer into an active investigator, helping you and your clinicians identify triggers, effective strategies, and overlooked "baggage" like depression, anxiety, or poor sleep that need attention.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If I kept a daily pain journal for two weeks, what variables (time of day, activities, emotions, interactions) would I track to better understand my pain?
  • • How might having clearer data on my pain patterns change the conversations I have with my doctors or therapists?
  • • What simple format (paper notebook, phone notes, spreadsheet) could I start using today to log my pain and its possible triggers?
5

Once serious structural problems are ruled out, fear of movement can itself become part of the pain loop, so learning that safe activity is not damaging-and then gradually increasing it-is essential to breaking the cycle.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways has fear of making things worse stopped me from trying gentle, medically-cleared movement that might help?
  • • How would my daily routine look different if I truly believed that carefully graded activity was safe for my body?
  • • What is one small, doctor-approved physical action (like a short walk or gentle stretch) I can take today despite some fear, and how will I evaluate its impact afterward?
6

Addressing "baggage"-such as depression, anxiety, isolation, and chronic stress-is not a side issue but a central part of effective pain care, and involving mental health professionals can be as important as medications or procedures.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which emotional or psychological factors (like low mood, anxiety, or loneliness) seem to flare up alongside my pain episodes?
  • • How might working with a psychologist or counselor specifically to improve my pain, not just my mood, change the way I view getting help?
  • • What is one concrete step I can take this month to reduce a source of chronic stress or isolation that may be feeding into my pain?
7

Because neuroplasticity is neutral, repeatedly focusing on pain can strengthen pain circuits, while deliberately cultivating alternative experiences-relaxation, positive movement, absorbing activities-can help rewire the brain away from pain dominance.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How much of my mental bandwidth is currently devoted to monitoring and worrying about pain, and what else could I be focusing on instead?
  • • In what ways could I introduce more absorbing, enjoyable, or calming activities into my days to give my brain different patterns to wire around?
  • • What specific activity that usually makes me feel absorbed or relaxed could I schedule during times when I typically ruminate on pain?

Episode Summary - Notes by Micah

Feel Better Now: Neurosurgeon Reveals the New Science of Healing Your Body & Stopping Pain Today
0:00 0:00