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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2382 - Andrew Santino

with Andrew Santino

Published September 23, 2025
Visit Podcast Website

About This Episode

Joe Rogan and Andrew Santino discuss the rapid rise of artificial intelligence, from AI-generated music and art to the looming impact on jobs, the economy, and social structures, including potential moves toward universal basic income. They examine recent political controversies around Jimmy Kimmel, Donald Trump, and the fictional assassination of Charlie Kirk, focusing on censorship, media manipulation, bot farms, and how social media inflames division. They also explore broader themes like quantum computing and a "new god" of superintelligent AI, government overreach, crime and civil unrest, conspiracy-laden shootings, wildlife management and mountain lions, overlooked musical talents, and the importance of generosity, community, and keeping perspective amid escalating chaos.

Topics Covered

Artificial intelligence Universal basic income Free speech and censorship Media trust and propaganda Online radicalization Social media addiction Nuclear power UAP Stand-up comedy Violence and self-defense

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • AI-generated music and art are already good enough to create convincing "hit" songs and virtual performers in minutes, unsettling both comics as they debate what it means for human creativity.
  • Rogan argues that most jobs are ultimately non-essential in the long run and will be replaced by AI and automation, forcing society to confront ideas like universal basic income and new forms of meaning.
  • They strongly oppose government involvement in censoring comedians or talk show hosts, warning that using state power against political opponents will inevitably be turned on everyone.
  • The fictional assassination of Charlie Kirk is used to illustrate how bot farms, social media manipulation, and ideological echo chambers can push people into cheering political violence.
  • Rogan likens advanced AI and quantum computing to a new emerging "god" that may surpass human comprehension and require vast increases in electrical power, including expanded nuclear energy.
  • They question official narratives around the Charlie Kirk and Trump shootings, focusing on basic gun mechanics and timelines that, in their view, don't add up.
  • Rogan stresses that real-world brutality-from bot-fueled culture wars to public executions in conflict zones-makes domestic media feuds look trivial by comparison.
  • The conversation repeatedly returns to the value of live performance, the camaraderie among comedians, and simple acts of generosity, like over-tipping, as antidotes to technological and social alienation.

Podcast Notes

Opening and catching up

Reunion and time since last visit

Santino notes it's been around two years since his last appearance and jokes Rogan left him "high and dry" in Los Angeles[0:25]
• They riff that eventually Los Angeles will feel like "Mad Max" and people will be forced to leave

Speculation about Gavin Newsom and national politics

They joke about Newsom becoming president and Kamala Harris becoming governor of California, making it "full communist"[0:40]
Rogan thinks Newsom could win because modern elections are a popularity contest, not about governing competence[1:18]
• He points out that a reality TV host has already been president twice in their fictionalized 2025 framing

AI-generated music, art, and creative disruption

AI bands and virtual artists

Rogan mentions a fully AI-created band with around four million monthly Spotify streams[2:47]
• He recalls an AI-generated "emo" girl artist created in about a minute, with her song made in another minute, which he genuinely liked
They discuss how unsettling it is to enjoy AI-created songs, because it challenges human art[2:42]

AI cover of 50 Cent's "Many Men"

Rogan plays an AI cover of 50 Cent's "Many Men" done in a 1950s/60s soulful, bluesy style sung by a fake human voice[5:41]
• Santino says it gives him chills and feels uncomfortable because it sounds so good yet isn't a real person
Rogan argues the performance would have made a human singer a superstar if people thought it was real[7:58]
• They compare the tone to singers like Aloe Blacc and Charles Bradley, noting AI pulls the best vocal traits from many sources

DIY AI music tools

Rogan says he has experimented with the same AI music tools and made an 80s glam rock track in about five minutes[8:58]
• He notes how trivial it now is to produce a "hit" song with a prompt and a short workflow
Santino admits he hasn't used ChatGPT at all yet and feels behind and a bit scared of the technology[9:01]

AI, jobs, and universal basic income

AI, automation, and political responses

Rogan ties AI and automation to left-wing politicians, suggesting figures like a New York progressive (Mamdani) will push for rent control and higher taxes on the rich as jobs disappear[1:59]
• He argues that some form of universal basic income will become necessary to avoid chaos as most jobs become automatable

Are jobs essential?

Rogan challenges Santino's assumption that jobs themselves are essential, comparing it to obsolete skills like flintknapping arrowheads being replaced by modern materials[13:12]
• He says technology always replaces old forms of work as long as Earth remains relatively stable and avoids catastrophes like nuclear war or asteroid impact
Santino wonders if destroyed jobs will be replaced by other jobs on the "other side" of the transition, such as roles fixing AI-caused problems[12:19]

Meaning, insignificance, and cosmic perspective

Rogan mentions people obsess over "meaning" in life, but says when you look at hundreds of billions of stars, losing a job seems insignificant[16:04]
• He argues that humans are generally inefficient, lazy, and self-important about their office roles, which AI will ruthlessly reveal

Encryption, quantum computing, and money

Rogan explains that current encryption underpins Bitcoin, passwords, and banking, but quantum computing attached to AI will render encryption meaningless[16:40]
• He raises the scenario where only governments initially have quantum supercomputers, allowing them to control and redefine digital money, before such power inevitably proliferates

Live art, performance, and future of human creativity

Enduring appeal of live shows

Santino says he hopes younger generations still value live art-comedy and music-because he loves attending live performances[14:05]
• Rogan reassures him that live performance will always matter because the in-person human connection cannot be replicated by screens or AI
Santino describes seeing Killer Mike at Blue Note with gospel singers and how powerful the live experience was[14:43]
• They speculate that in a robot-dominated world, humans may primarily go out to see live shows as one of the last uniquely human activities

Social media manipulation, bot farms, and culture war

Bot farms and manufactured outrage

Rogan describes bot farms controlling vast numbers of social media accounts used to push narratives on topics like elections, climate, and sports to make people hate each other[26:03]
• He notes that multiple countries-including China, Russia, Iran, Israel, and the U.S.-likely run such operations against both foreign and domestic audiences
He cites a TikTok video of a physical bot farm shared by Andrew Fox as a vivid example of who's really arguing with you online[25:58]

AI-driven bots and extremist personas

Rogan says some accounts were suspended after it was found the Chinese Communist Party was using ChatGPT to run bot farms[26:54]
• He describes how AI bots can be instructed to pretend to be an "unhinged leftist" wanting to kill all white men, provoking real right-wing users and escalating hostility
He connects this to real-life incidents where people cheered the fictional death of Charlie Kirk online, viewing it as evidence that social media is eroding morals and ethics[27:26]

TMZ and public reactions to Charlie Kirk's assassination

Rogan mentions a TMZ clip where people in a room are heard cheering and clapping when they learn Charlie Kirk is dead[27:58]
• He also references a man near the scene cheering that Kirk was shot, noting such people are likely to be doxxed and struggle to find jobs later
They argue that this kind of reaction would have been unimaginable 20-30 years ago, attributing it to the dehumanizing effect of social media[27:35]

Jimmy Kimmel, FCC, censorship, and late-night TV

FCC broadcast rules and evolution of TV

Rogan explains that broadcast TV required an FCC license and banned swearing, but cable and premium channels like HBO eroded those boundaries over time[18:42]
• He notes that FX and others eventually realized they could swear and show more adult content once the cable/pay distinction loosened

Opposition to government censorship of comedians

Rogan is adamant that government should never dictate what a comedian can say in a monologue, calling that "fucking crazy"[19:59]
• He warns right-wing people cheering Kimmel's punishment that empowering the government to censor speech will eventually be used against them

Kimmel's Charlie Kirk monologue and factual issues

They quote Kimmel describing the shooter as part of the "MAGA gang" and criticizing Trump's reaction, including jokes like calling Trump's ballroom construction the "fourth stage of grief"[51:47]
• Rogan argues Kimmel's setup was factually off because by Sunday night officials were already saying the suspect had been involved with hardcore leftist ideologies, not MAGA
They acknowledge the joke itself was strong but say the inaccurate framing on Monday made it a political flashpoint[53:33]

Late-night politicization and Carson comparison

Santino recounts how Johnny Carson refused to get political, viewing his job as putting America to bed rather than giving them nightmares[25:07]
• They argue social media and a perceived cultural war have pushed modern hosts into constant political takes, unlike Carson's era

Kimmel suspension and reinstatement

Rogan predicts Kimmel's show would return after a brief suspension, with lawyers negotiating behind the scenes; later in the episode, they read a statement confirming ABC is bringing the show back[2:15:10]
• The network claimed "ill-timed and insensitive" comments but said conversations with Kimmel led to deciding to resume the show
They suggest the controversy ultimately helps Kimmel by boosting attention and likely ratings upon his return[2:14:37]

Conspiracies and inconsistencies around the Charlie Kirk and Trump shootings

The odd "decoy" suspect and child porn arrest

Rogan describes an older man at the Kirk shooting scene who reportedly shouted "I did it" and took his pants down, and who had also appeared at 9/11 and the Boston bombing[31:10]
• He says this man was then arrested for child porn, speculating that this conveniently prevents him from being widely interviewed as internet sleuths would question his presence at multiple major events

Feasibility of the alleged shooter's marksmanship

Santino questions whether a 22-year-old of seemingly limited experience could pull off the shot attributed to him[33:09]
• Rogan, with firearms experience, says a 200-yard prone shot with a properly zeroed rifle is achievable with a day of competent instruction for a novice

Disassembly and reassembly of the Mauser rifle

Rogan plays a video of an experienced gunsmith breaking down a Mauser rifle, noting it takes multiple tools (Allen key, Torx key) and focused fine motor skills[35:03]
• He finds the official claim that the shooter disassembled the rifle, shot Kirk, then quickly reassembled it to escape with adrenaline-pumped hands highly implausible

Line-of-sight, rooftop access, and security failures

Rogan questions how security failed to monitor accessible rooftops in direct line-of-sight to the event or deploy drones to check roofs[37:21]
• They note video exists of someone jumping off the roof, but question whether that person was truly the shooter or a patsy

Comparisons to the Trump assassination attempt and JFK

Rogan recalls uncertainty over whether the Trump shooter used a scope or iron sights at around 140 yards, saying iron sights would be much harder[38:39]
• They pivot to JFK, discussing the "magic bullet" and the implausibility of a pristine bullet causing multiple wounds and turning up intact on a gurney
Rogan argues the JFK headshot at Dealey Plaza was an easy shot distance-wise, despite narratives claiming it was impossible[1:21:52]

AI power demands, nuclear energy, and quantum computing as a new "god"

AI's massive electricity needs and nuclear deals

Rogan reads a thread claiming major tech CEOs met at the White House primarily to secure electricity for AI before it "runs out"[1:04:55]
• He cites a reported Microsoft deal to lock up all the power output of Three Mile Island for 20 years to power data centers, and notes the plant melted down decades ago
They conclude that to compete in AI, the U.S. will have to dramatically expand the grid, especially nuclear power, with some projects already linking new reactors to AI workloads[1:06:47]

Quantum computing capabilities and multiverse speculation

Rogan cites investor Marc Andreessen's claim that a quantum computer solved in minutes an equation that would take every atom in the universe, if turned into a supercomputer, longer than the universe's remaining lifespan[1:07:56]
• He says some speculate this is evidence of a multiverse, where parallel quantum computers across dimensions share computation
Rogan jokes that this might be how God "comes back"-through an unimaginably powerful superintelligent quantum AI[1:08:49]

Generosity, tipping, and social safety nets

Tipping as a "love bomb"

Rogan advocates leaving large tips when you can afford it, describing it as dropping a "love bomb" on someone's day[59:20]
• He argues that if you're doing well financially, you won't miss the extra money, but the recipient will feel a huge positive impact
They mention that tipping culture doesn't exist the same way in Europe, but Rogan still feels people should be paid a living wage rather than relying on tips[59:35]

Welfare, social safety nets, and education

Rogan shares that his family was on welfare when he was a kid, arguing that social safety nets are necessary to prevent hunger in a wealthy country[57:31]
• He supports free education through college level and criticizes a system where people go broke trying to get educated while the government subsidizes things like corn for corn syrup instead

Wildlife, hunting, and mountain lion management

Overpopulation of animals and hunting realities

Rogan says animals near suburbs would be wiped out quickly if the power grid failed and people had to hunt pigeons and deer to survive[1:51:52]
• He notes passenger pigeons once darkened the sky but were driven extinct by human hunting, underscoring how fast urban wildlife would disappear

Mountain lions near Los Angeles and safety

Rogan recounts incidents of mountain lions in Southern California killing pets and potentially threatening children, including a recent attack on an 11-year-old at home[1:58:01]
• He criticizes what he calls "suicidal empathy" toward apex predators like P-22 near the Hollywood sign, arguing some lions must be killed to protect humans and livestock
They reference a Malibu alpaca farm where a mountain lion killed multiple alpacas in a surplus killing event, leading to a depredation permit and subsequent public backlash against the owner[1:58:01]

Hunting, moose, and deer biology

Rogan talks about shooting a moose and being on a magazine cover holding a moose leg, emphasizing how gigantic moose are compared to other deer species[2:04:47]
• He explains how deer in colder climates grow larger bodies than desert species like Coues deer, due to thermal adaptations
He warns that if you see a moose in the wild, you should not approach, because they may charge and stomp you to death[2:05:55]

Security, surveillance tech, and Pegasus spyware

Phone backdoors and Israeli spyware

Rogan brings up a claim about Samsung's "app cloud" and asks Jamie to investigate; Jamie's AI query frames it as bloatware/adware rather than a known espionage tool[2:27:26]
• Rogan says a security expert friend told him with tools like Pegasus 2, all an attacker needs is your phone number to access your device, making specific app backdoors less important

Jeff Bezos, WhatsApp exploit, and Tucker Carlson

Rogan recalls that the original Pegasus infected phones via a malicious WhatsApp link, allegedly used to compromise Jeff Bezos's device[2:30:30]
• He adds that Tucker Carlson said government officials told him they had read his Signal messages about arranging an interview with Putin, which shocked him because he thought Signal was secure

Civil unrest, Nepal protests, and overthrowing governments

Nepalese youth uprising via Discord

Rogan says young people in Nepal recently overthrew their government after it tried to control online speech, organizing via Discord[2:34:14]
• Jamie pulls up reports showing officials fleeing by helicopter from parliament buildings amid large street protests
Rogan notes this story initially seemed inspiring until Mike Benz later framed such events as sometimes being orchestrated through U.S.-funded NGOs like USAID, making them less organic[2:34:17]

Wealth, oligarch yachts, and U.S. seizures

Russian oligarch superyacht seizures

They discuss U.S. and allied authorities seizing massive Russian oligarch yachts after the Ukraine invasion, including a $300 million vessel named Amadea[2:36:58]
• Jamie reads that the U.S. argued the yacht belonged to sanctioned billionaire Suleiman Kerimov, while another Russian, Eduard Khudainatov, claimed ownership on paper
Rogan points out seized yachts must be maintained at huge cost, and questions who really benefits when governments impound private luxury assets[2:40:44]

Music deep cuts, talent, and overlooked artists

Ghostface Killah's child and rap genetics

Rogan plays a track by Infinite Coles, said to be related to Ghostface Killah, noting the song was rumored as a diss but later clarified it was not[2:02:43]
• He marvels at how strong the flow is and suggests musical ability can be partly genetic

Sam Cooke's brother and "Put Me Down Easy"

Santino introduces L.C. Cooke, Sam Cooke's brother, and his song "Put Me Down Easy", calling it one of his favorite songs[2:05:09]
• He explains the lyrics are about knowing a breakup is inevitable and begging for it to be quick rather than drawn out

Johnny Thunder's "I'm Alive" and lost careers

Rogan plays "I'm Alive" by Johnny Thunder from 1969, a cover of a Deep Purple song, and calls it so good that Thunder should have become a superstar[2:07:08]
• They later note Johnny Thunder died in 2024 at age 93, and his song has since been used in commercials, but he never had the massive career the track seemed to promise

Identity, twins, and eerie coincidences

Mirror twins and psychic connections

Rogan explains "mirror identical" twins, whose right and left sides are reversed, arise when the fertilized egg splits unusually late (9-12 days after conception)[1:46:09]
• He wonders whether such twins have especially strong psychic connections, like thinking the same thing simultaneously

Brady Feigl baseball doppelgängers

They discuss two unrelated baseball players both named Brady Feigl, red-haired, same height, same surgery, who look almost identical despite no known family connection[1:47:43]
• Rogan jokes about a horror plot where one kills the other while camping and takes over his life, and no one notices because they look so alike

Comedian community, mental health, and stepping away from social media

Value of the comedy community

Rogan recalls Doug Stanhope's line that he could quit comedy but never quit comics, emphasizing how the camaraderie is more rewarding than the career itself[2:12:08]
• He and Santino reminisce about hanging out with other comics in Austin and Chicago, calling those days some of their best experiences

Online obsession and sanity

Rogan says he's largely left social media for 7-8 months, only posting about shows, and avoids reading anything about himself[2:19:45]
• He warns that some people spend all day on Twitter arguing, making response videos, and living in perpetual outrage, which he views as a waste of life and a threat to mental health
He criticizes the expectation that anyone with a big platform must comment on every issue, mocking accusations that silence implies loving "boot leather"[2:20:34]

Closing reflections on division, violence, and perspective

Condemning celebration of political violence

Rogan stresses that celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination is morally wrong, especially given he was a 31-year-old husband and father, regardless of disagreement with his views[2:19:06]
• He notes he did not agree with everything Kirk said and acknowledges problematic statements, but insists that does not justify cheering his death

War zones vs. domestic media feuds

Rogan references a graphic video from Gaza showing three blindfolded men executed in the street for alleged collaboration with Israel, contrasting that brutality with petty U.S. media fights[2:16:15]
• He uses this to argue many online controversies are trivial compared to real suffering, and that Americans need more perspective and less manufactured outrage

Appeal for unity and cooler heads

Rogan reiterates that the United States should function as a community where people can disagree without demonizing each other as fascists or enemies[2:13:58]
• He warns against sliding toward civil war or large-scale domestic conflict, cautioning that both sides underestimate the destructive potential of real violence

Outro: Special promotion and departure

Santino's special and schedule

They mention Santino's special "White Noise" on Hulu and joke about Hulu's "Hularious" marketing label[2:33:00]
• Santino says he is doing Kill Tony that night but has to fly out the next day for a show, so can't extend his stay in Austin

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Technological change, especially with AI and quantum computing, is accelerating beyond anyone's control, so clinging to existing job structures or creative hierarchies is less useful than adapting and finding new ways to create value.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What parts of your current work or craft are most vulnerable to automation over the next five to ten years?
  • • How could you use emerging tools like AI to augment your abilities instead of competing directly with them?
  • • What specific new skill or experiment could you start this month to future-proof your role in a rapidly changing landscape?
2

Giving the government or powerful institutions the authority to censor speech might feel satisfying when it's used against your perceived enemies, but that same power will inevitably be turned on you or people you care about.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where have you quietly supported speech restrictions simply because you disliked the speaker or their politics?
  • • How might your perspective on censorship change if you imagine your own views being the ones labeled "dangerous" or "vile"?
  • • What is one concrete way you can advocate for consistent free speech principles, even when it's uncomfortable?
3

Social media and bot-driven outrage machines can push otherwise normal people toward celebrating violence and dehumanizing opponents, so consciously limiting exposure and prioritizing real-world interactions is a critical form of mental hygiene.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How often do you find your mood or opinions shifting based on what you see online rather than your own direct experiences?
  • • In what ways could you replace an hour of scrolling each day with in-person conversations or creative work that grounds you?
  • • What boundaries or rules around social media usage could you set for yourself this week to reduce manipulation and improve your mental health?
4

Small acts of generosity-like tipping beyond what you notice-can meaningfully improve others' lives while reinforcing your own sense of abundance and connection.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you gave a little more than necessary, and how did it make both you and the recipient feel?
  • • Where in your daily routine could you consistently add a small "love bomb" of generosity without impacting your financial stability?
  • • Who in your life or community could benefit from an unexpected, concrete act of generosity this week, and what might that look like?
5

Community and real human relationships-like the camaraderie among comics-provide resilience and meaning that no amount of online attention or career success can replace.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which in-person communities or friendships most reliably make you feel grounded and understood, and how often are you investing in them?
  • • How might your priorities shift if you measured success more by the quality of your relationships than by online metrics or professional milestones?
  • • What is one specific step you can take in the next seven days to strengthen a real-world community or friendship you've been neglecting?

Episode Summary - Notes by Jamie

#2382 - Andrew Santino
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