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TED Talks Daily

Wicked's costume designer on how to tell stories with clothes | Paul Tazewell

with Paul Tazewell

Published November 18, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Host Elise Hu introduces Oscar-winning costume designer Paul Tazewell, who explains how clothing functions as a subconscious storytelling language that shapes our perceptions of heroes, villains, and marginalized people. Drawing on his work in Hamilton, West Side Story, and Wicked, he shows how design choices around color, silhouette, and texture can reinforce or challenge cultural narratives about power, identity, and "wickedness." A brief Q&A touches on how costumes will continue to evolve in the sequel Wicked for Good and hints at his future work on Broadway and film.

Topics Covered

Storytelling Art and creativity Identity Race relations Film adaptation Perception Costume design Personal narrative Creativity

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Quick Takeaways

  • Paul Tazewell views costume design as a form of storytelling that shapes audience perception before a character speaks a word.
  • In Hamilton, he used period silhouettes on Black and brown bodies with restrained color, contrasted against a fully ornate King George III, to reframe who owns American history.
  • For West Side Story, he rejected the idea that the Jets and Sharks are simple mirrors, instead giving each group distinct visual identities while letting their colors blend in shared spaces.
  • His work on Wicked uses the familiar green-and-black versus pink-and-glitter contrast not to reinforce stereotypes, but to question who decides who is labeled wicked or worthy.
  • Tazewell argues that design is never neutral; everyday objects and clothing carry memory, bias, and cultural narratives that can either entrench or redesign perceptions of wickedness.
  • Costumes can show emotional arcs through details like fit, fraying, and fabric breakdown, silently tracking growth, conflict, and resolution.
  • As a Black gay man who has experienced being othered, Tazewell is drawn to stories about marginalized characters and challenges surface-level judgments.
  • He confirms that Wicked for Good will further evolve the lead characters' costumes as their stories continue, aiming to keep the fantasy world emotionally real and relatable.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and episode setup

Host Elise Hu introduces the show and guest

Identification of podcast and host[3:05]
• Elise Hu states that the listener is tuned in to "TED Talks Daily," which brings new ideas to spark curiosity every day.
Context of Wicked for Good release[3:07]
• Elise notes that the following week is the global release of "Wicked for Good," described as the sequel to the wildly popular movie Wicked.
• She frames the episode as being shared ahead of that big premiere.

Introduction of Paul Tazewell and talk theme

Guest identification and credentials[3:20]
• Elise introduces the speaker as the film's Oscar-winning costume designer, Paul Taswell (later identified as Paul Tazewell).
Main idea of the talk[3:43]
• Elise says he will take listeners inside his thinking around the subconscious language of clothing.
• She summarizes that clothing shapes who we view as heroes and who we view as villains.
Examples of his notable work[3:31]
• Elise cites his work on the period silhouettes of Hamilton.
• She mentions his blending colors in West Side Story.
• She refers to the visual dualities in Wicked as another example.
Claim that design is not neutral and Q&A teaser[3:41]
• Elise says Tazewell makes the case that design is never neutral.
• She tells listeners to stick around after his talk for a short Q&A with TED's Monique Ruff-Bell.

Paul Tazewell's talk: What makes someone wicked and the language of costume

Opening questions about wickedness and judgment

Provocative framing questions[3:54]
• Paul opens by asking, "What makes someone wicked?"
• He questions whether wickedness is determined by the color of a person's skin, the story we have been told, or what they wear.
• He asks how we make those judgments and what clues we rely on.
• He highlights that we carry assumptions, sometimes without realizing it.

Defining the role of a costume designer

Common misconceptions about his job[4:15]
• Paul notes that people often assume his job is all about fabric, sequins, dresses, buttons, and maybe a good hat.
His actual focus: perception and storytelling[4:31]
• He states that in truth, his job is about perception.
• He identifies himself as a storyteller whose medium and language is clothing.
Tools of his storytelling language[4:36]
• Through silhouette, color, and texture, he shapes how the audience sees someone before they speak a word.
• He says he decides whether the audience leans forward with curiosity or pulls back with suspicion.
• He explains that putting a character in scarlet, velvet, or sharp black lines is a way of asking the audience to feel something about them instantly and silently.

Costume as parallel storytelling and emotional arc

Seeking a thematic hook[5:16]
• Paul says he seeks out a thematic hook in every project, something human that allows him to find himself in the story.
• He emphasizes that he is not just decorating a character but telling a parallel story that lives in the clothing.
Costumes as dynamic, evolving elements[5:36]
• He notes that costumes are not static: they move with the body, they evolve, and sometimes they even tell lies.
• He says costumes reflect growth, conflict, and resolution.
Showing emotional arcs through physical details[5:51]
• Paul explains he can telegraph an entire emotional arc in the fit of a jacket, the fraying of a hem, or the way fabric breaks down under stress.
• He claims that audiences feel these signals even if they don't consciously realize it.
Costume as subconscious language and manipulation of perception[6:05]
• Paul calls costume a subconscious language and says he uses the audience's power of perception to lead them through the story.

Case study: Hamilton and reframing American history

Hamilton as an "us versus them" story

Core conflicts in Hamilton[6:18]
• He describes Hamilton as fundamentally a story of "us versus them": colonists versus empire and immigrants versus the establishment.
Lin-Manuel Miranda's radical brief[6:27]
• Paul recounts that Lin-Manuel Miranda told him, "I want the audience to see our founding fathers through today's lens."
• He frames this as a radical instruction, creating a design challenge.

Design choices for Hamilton's costumes

Modern bodies in period clothing[7:26]
• He describes the challenge as presenting Black and brown bodies in 18th-century coats and breeches, rapping about revolution.
• He characterizes this as history being reimagined in real time.
Use of period silhouettes with restraint[6:50]
• Paul says he designed period silhouettes but with restraint.
• He used neutral tones on much of the ensemble while allowing their skin to show through.
• He wanted the power of their voices to ring true at center stage.

Contrast with King George III and visual duality

King George III as embodiment of the old world[7:10]
• In contrast, King George III appears in full regalia, bewigged and jeweled.
• He is painted in perfect detail based on his portraitist.
• Paul explains that King George represents the old world, while the revolutionaries represent the new.
Using visual duality to support the story of democracy[7:24]
• He notes that the visual duality of modern bodies in period shapes versus a single man preserved in his pomp makes the story of democracy unfolding compelling.
• He says this takes something historically familiar to frame a modern perception of how the nation was formed.

Making Thomas Jefferson a rock star

Creative decision for Jefferson's character[7:45]
• Paul recalls that he and director Tommy Kail decided, "let's make him a rock star."
• He describes Jefferson in flamboyant purple, modeled after a pop icon.
• He emphasizes that this was not by chance but was a deliberate statement.
Purpose behind Jefferson's styling[7:53]
• Paul says the statement was that history isn't dry or static; it is alive, charismatic, and complicated.

Hamilton versus Burr: color palettes and final balance

Setting up a visual duel through color[8:23]
• He notes a subtle contrast between Hamilton's vibrant green suits and Burr's muted raisin palette.
• He describes this as planting seeds and setting up a visual duel.
Final image of equality in tragedy[8:35]
• At the end of the show, Hamilton and Burr stand together in black capes.
• Paul says they are equal in power and tragedy, balanced not in life but in history's memory.
Costumes as commentary on ownership of history[8:43]
• He states that the costumes were not decoration but commentary.
• They were a way to ask, "whose history is this and who gets to own it."

Case study: West Side Story and dignity across divides

Reframing Jets vs. Sharks conflict

Us versus them in 1950s New York[8:58]
• Paul explains that Steven Spielberg's West Side Story again presents an "us versus them" dynamic: Jets versus Sharks, white versus Puerto Rican.

Visual identity of the Jets

Blue-collar toughness[9:08]
• For the Jets, he leaned into blue-collar toughness.
• He used denim, polos, and sneakers, describing this as the uniform of boys rooted in concrete.

Visual identity of the Sharks

Latin textiles and aspirational elegance[9:19]
• For the Sharks, Paul turned to Latin textiles, vibrant florals, and colors inspired by sun and sea.
• He says these were cut with elegance and aspiration, showing young men and women dressing for a life they had yet to claim.

Rejecting simple mirroring and handling iconic elements

Rejecting mirror-image gangs[9:37]
• Paul explicitly says he rejected the impulse to treat the two gangs as mirror images separated only by language and skin color.
Respecting and twisting iconic pieces[9:47]
• At the same time, he clung to what was iconic, such as Anita's dress.
• He notes that he gave that iconic dress his own twist.

Dance at the gym and blending cultures

Visual blending in shared spaces[9:55]
• In the dance at the gym scene, where the two worlds collide, he let the colors bleed together.
• He describes warm tones crossing cool and fabrics echoing across lines.
• He uses this to argue that even in conflict, cultures mix and borders are never as fixed as we pretend.

Avoiding stereotypes and defining the true antagonist

Design as a tool against stereotyping[10:12]
• Paul says that design in West Side Story could have perpetuated stereotypes, but his goal was to dismantle them.
• He aimed to give both sides dignity, authenticity, and complexity.
Identifying the city as antagonist[10:30]
• He argues that the tragedy of West Side Story isn't that the two sides were so different.
• He identifies the real antagonist as the city itself and a system of development and displacement tearing their neighborhoods apart.
• He notes that both gangs were fighting for ground they would lose regardless.
Costume underlines the beauty in blending[10:44]
• Paul says costume allowed him to underline the truth that the beauty wasn't in separation but in the blend.

Case study: Wicked and challenging labels of good and wicked

Familiar color codes in Wicked

Traditional visual coding of Elphaba and Glinda[10:51]
• Paul notes that Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West, has green skin and wears black.
• He mentions that Glinda sparkles in pink and glitter.
• He says these colors confirm who is good and who is wicked, based on the familiar Wizard of Oz story.

Reinterpreting the characters through the script

Elphaba as misunderstood rather than evil[11:20]
• After reading the script more closely, Paul realized Elphaba is intelligent, compassionate, and misunderstood.
Complexities of Glinda[11:28]
• He observes that Glinda, on the other side, isn't always kind.
Designing questions instead of stereotypes[11:34]
• Paul states that he was not designing stereotypes; he was designing questions.
• He poses questions like who decides who is worthy of respect and who is shunned, who is cherished and who is ostracized, who belongs and who is cast out.

Personal connection: being othered and interest in marginalized characters

His identity and experience of othering[12:49]
• Paul shares that as a Black gay man entering a field that wasn't always comfortable with his presence, he knows what it feels like to be othered.
• He describes being misjudged at first glance.
Attraction to stories of marginalized characters[12:07]
• He suggests that this experience may be why he's drawn to stories about marginalized characters.
• He says Wicked is not just about a witch but about anyone who has been judged without speaking a word.

Broader reflections: design, memory, and perception of wickedness

Why costumes matter: clothing as memory and culture

Objects as carriers of memory[12:22]
• Paul asks why so much care should be put into costumes and answers that clothing carries memory.
• He says a dress, a chair, a lamp hold the fingerprints of their makers.
• He explains these things capture a culture at a particular moment in time and embody both aspirations and biases.
Everyday design elements as "costumes"[12:45]
• Paul asserts that the clothes we wear, the furniture we sit on, and the art we hang on our walls are costumes too.
• He says these elements shape our identity and create culture.
Design is never neutral[12:54]
• He explicitly states, "Design is never neutral."

Revisiting the question of wickedness and perception

Rejecting superficial markers of wickedness[13:24]
• Paul returns to his earlier question, asking again what makes someone wicked.
• He answers that it isn't the color of their skin, the story that we've been told, or what they wear.
Perception and inherited "costumes" as the real issue[13:08]
• He argues that wickedness is rooted in our perception.
• He describes perception as the costume we've been handed and whether we choose to believe it.
Possibility of redesigning wickedness[13:24]
• Paul says his job and joy is in making audiences reimagine the answers to those questions about wickedness.
• He concludes that wickedness can be designed and redesigned, and suggests that if it can be designed, then perhaps together it can be redesigned.
• He ends his talk with a "Thank you."

Post-talk Q&A with Monique Ruff-Bell

Question about costume evolution in Wicked for Good

Monique's question on inspiration and evolution[13:42]
• Monique Ruff-Bell says it was beautiful to see Paul's journey of inspiration.
• She asks whether, with the release of Wicked for Good, there will be an evolution in the costumes of the lead characters as the story evolves.
Paul's answer on continued evolution[13:55]
• Paul replies "Absolutely," confirming that there will be evolution.
• He says it is a continuation of how the characters evolve.
• He connects this to his earlier point that creating a reality even within a world of fantasy helps people relate to the story.

Question about his future work after Wicked for Good

Monique asks what is next[14:39]
• Monique asks when audiences will see the magic of his handiwork again after Wicked for Good.
Paul's expectations for future projects[14:32]
• Paul responds "Oh, gosh. Who knows?" indicating some uncertainty.
• He suggests people should look to Broadway first.
• He then adds that hopefully his work will appear again on the big screen.
Closing the Q&A[14:38]
• Monique thanks Paul.

Outro and credits

Identification of speaker and event

Naming the talk and venue[14:49]
• Elise says, "That was Paul Tazewell at TED Next 2025."

Mention of TED's curation information

Directing listeners to curation guidelines[14:46]
• Elise invites listeners who are curious about TED's curation to find out more at TED.com slash curationguidelines.

Credits for TED Talks Daily production

Integration in TED Audio Collective[14:50]
• Elise notes that TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
Fact-checking and production team[14:56]
• She says the talk was fact-checked by the TED Research Team.
• She credits producers and editors Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Lucy Little, and Tansika Sangmarnivong.
• She notes that the episode was mixed by Lucy Little.
Additional support and sign-off[15:04]
• Elise mentions additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo.
• She signs off as Elise Hu and says she will be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for the listener's feed.
• She thanks listeners for listening.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Clothing and visual design form a subconscious language that shapes how others perceive characters and people before a single word is spoken.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What first impressions might your everyday clothing and environment be silently creating for others about who you are?
  • • How could you adjust your visual presentation to better align with the values and story you want to communicate?
  • • What is one specific change you could make this week to your appearance or workspace that would more accurately reflect your intentions?
2

Design choices can either reinforce stereotypes and power structures or dismantle them by giving complexity and dignity to all sides of a story.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your work or life are you unintentionally repeating familiar stereotypes instead of questioning them?
  • • How might you redesign a process, image, or message you control so that it gives more nuance and dignity to people who are usually simplified or marginalized?
  • • What is one concrete situation coming up where you can choose a design, framing, or language that challenges, rather than confirms, a harmful assumption?
3

History and identity are not fixed; by reframing visuals and narratives, we can invite people to see old stories through a modern, more inclusive lens.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which stories about your organization, community, or family are still being told in a way that centers only one perspective?
  • • How could you re-stage or re-present a familiar story in your life so that new voices and viewpoints become visible and central?
  • • What is one tradition, presentation, or narrative you could update this year to better reflect who you are now and who you want to include?
4

Our judgments about who is "good" or "wicked" often come from inherited perceptions-the "costumes" we've been handed-rather than from a person's true character.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what situations do you find yourself making snap judgments about others based mainly on appearance, background, or reputation?
  • • How could you pause and interrogate your own initial perceptions before deciding what role someone plays in your story?
  • • What is one relationship or group you could revisit with fresh eyes, asking what assumptions you might redesign in your own mind?
5

Objects and environments-from clothes to furniture to art-carry memory, culture, and bias, so curating them thoughtfully can help create identities and spaces that support your values.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Looking around your home or workspace, what stories about you are your surroundings currently telling?
  • • How might rearranging, replacing, or adding a few key objects change how you and others feel in that space?
  • • What is one area-a room, desk, or digital profile-you could intentionally redesign this month to better embody the culture you want to build?

Episode Summary - Notes by Charlie

Wicked's costume designer on how to tell stories with clothes | Paul Tazewell
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