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SmartLess

"Kirsten Dunst"

with Kirsten Dunst

Published October 6, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Kirsten Dunst joins the SmartLess hosts for a wide-ranging conversation about her life as a former child actor, her evolving relationship to auditions and awards, and her current slate of films including "Roofman" and Ruben Östlund's "The Entertainment System is Down." She talks about balancing a dual-actor household with parenting two young sons, her preference for a low-key life in the Valley, and an acting process that includes "dream work" to deepen characters. The group also digresses into food, TV habits, SNL memories, and why she now craves doing a big, fun comedy next.

Topics Covered

Acting craft Fame and celebrity culture Parenting and child development Relationships Comedy Independent film production Travel and tourism Personal narrative Sleep Television history

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Kirsten Dunst describes how early awards attention, including a Golden Globe nomination at 12, was emotionally confusing and taught her not to tie her worth to winning.
  • She still occasionally auditions and describes a recent self-taped improv for Ruben Östlund's plane-set film as one of the most exciting wins of her career.
  • Dunst and her husband Jesse Plemons juggle two active acting careers with raising two young sons, which often means solo-parenting stretches and a very local, homebody lifestyle.
  • Her acting process now includes "dream work," where she asks her unconscious for character insights through dreams and then integrates them into her performances.
  • After a run of intense, dramatic roles and challenging shoots abroad, she is eager to do something big and fun-ideally a comedy-while noting that audiences currently flock to darker fare like horror.

Podcast Notes

Intro banter and Sean's return from London

Hosts joke about glasses and show billing

Jason, Will, and Sean compare who is wearing glasses on camera[2:14]
• Sean points out that Jason and Will are the only two in glasses, then fumbles the order of their names, which becomes a billing joke
Will jokes about being introduced with extra fanfare[2:22]
• He mock-demands to be introduced as "and introducing Will" and even prefers "the Will" in the intro

Sean's jet lag, weight loss, and sleep apnea

Sean just returned from doing a play in London and is extremely jet-lagged[3:37]
• He describes getting back at 1 p.m., going to bed at 8 p.m., waking at 1 a.m., then finally getting up at 7 a.m., totaling about 12 hours of sleep
Sean lost significant weight while away[3:58]
• He says he left at around 179-180 pounds and returned at 165 pounds, shocking the others
Breakfast of pasta and cake due to jet lag and birthday[4:08]
• Sean explains that at 9:30 a.m. his body thinks it's dinner time, so he had a bowl of pasta and two pieces of cake for Scotty's birthday
Update on his CPAP and sleep apnea[4:42]
• Sean says he no longer uses his CPAP machine because losing weight and avoiding sleeping on his back have alleviated the need
• He mentions trying to avoid sleeping on his back as part of his strategy
Tennis ball trick for back sleeping[5:12]
• Sean describes having read that people used to strap a tennis ball to their back (e.g., inside a shirt) so if they rolled onto their back in sleep it would be uncomfortable and they'd roll off
• Will and Jason mock the idea and Sean's citation of "research" found via Google

Banter about Sean's dog and homecoming

Sean's dog returning after months

Sean hasn't seen his dog in three months and is waiting for him to return later that day[6:51]
• He predicts the dog will react with excitement and a desire to play and get treats, not with resentment
Joke about who will poop in the bed[7:02]
• When Will asks if the dog will poop in the bed, Sean jokes that he himself will be the one to do that as a "welcome home" bit

Introducing Kirsten Dunst

Lead-up and guessing the guest

Will tees up the mystery guest as someone Jason already knows and will be nervous around[8:14]
• He describes her as a "super wattage megatown" star he's still a bit starstruck by
Early Golden Globe nomination and body of work[8:30]
• Will notes she was nominated for her first Golden Globe at age 12 for "Interview with the Vampire"
• He lists some of her early and notable films, including "Jumanji" and "Spider-Man"
Jason correctly guesses Kirsten Dunst[9:01]
• Jason blurts out "Kirsten Dunst" as a guess and is surprised he actually got it right for once

Kirsten appears and initial greetings

Kirsten greets the hosts and says she's happy to be on the show[9:16]
• They joke about whether people call her "KD"; she says yes and that she has many nicknames

Toronto encounter and TIFF context

Will recalls meeting Kirsten at the Toronto International Film Festival[9:27]
• He was playing the mayor ("in charge of the government") in Toronto for a project, walked by her table, and she popped up to say she was about to be on SmartLess, which was meant to be a secret
They were each promoting different projects at TIFF[9:49]
• Will notes they were there for "Black Rabbit" while she was there promoting "Roofman"
• Will says he saw "Roofman" the following day and describes it as "killer," "freaking awesome," and like a perfect Christmas movie

Kirsten's recent and upcoming films

Civil War and scheduling conflicts

Will mentions they had tried to have her on the podcast earlier around the release of "Civil War" but had to cancel due to one of the hosts being sick[10:47]
• They compliment her performance in "Civil War"; Kirsten says she loves that movie and thinks it's really cool
Jason is afraid to watch "Civil War"[10:31]
• He compares his reluctance to see it with his refusal to watch "United 93" because he hears it's so effective it feels like actually being on a crashing plane

Ruben Östlund's "The Entertainment System is Down"

Kirsten reveals she did a movie set on a plane called "The Entertainment System is Down"[11:44]
• She confirms it's directed by Ruben Östlund, who also made "Triangle of Sadness" and "Force Majeure"
Clarifying the premise of the film[11:25]
• Kirsten says it's not sci-fi but more like "human doomsday" on a plane, where the entertainment system and Wi-Fi are down so passengers must deal with each other
• Sean only fully understands when Will likens it to the bar on Tatooine in Star Wars in terms of a mix of characters interacting

Early career and first Golden Globe experience

Being nominated at age 12 and losing

Kirsten recalls being 12 and nominated for a Golden Globe for "Interview with the Vampire" while she was working on "Jumanji"[13:00]
• Everyone around her kept telling her she was going to win, which set up expectations
Emotional impact of not winning[13:20]
• She did not win and remembers crying under the table next to Jane Seymour from "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman"
• She paints a picture of a little girl crying at an NBC-televised event while adults around her are drunk on champagne

Perspective on awards and competition

Awards outcomes feel arbitrary compared to the experience of making a film[14:11]
• Kirsten says awards stuff is strange because the films and performances artists love often don't get nominated or win
• She concludes that all you really have is the experience of making the work itself
Weirdness of competition in acting[14:22]
• Jason notes it's odd to compete when actors are all playing different characters, unlike a standardized race where everyone runs the same distance

Auditioning again for Ruben Östlund and views on auditions

Audition as a major "win"

Kirsten had to audition for "The Entertainment System is Down" and says she hadn't been so excited to get a role since "Interview with the Vampire"[14:32]
• She describes landing that role via audition as "crazy" and the true win

Self-tape improv process

She did a self-tape alone on her iPhone because Jesse was away[15:11]
• The audition was entirely improvised based on a scenario Ruben gave her
The given improv scenario on the plane[15:52]
• She plays a woman bored on a plane next to her sleeping partner and son, who uses face recognition to unlock his phone and discovers he's been cheating
• In the improv, she finds a "memory" video set to "Cotton-Eyed Joe" that reveals his infidelities with multiple women
• She goes through emotional beats silently, wakes him up, then gets angry and ends the scene by getting up and shutting off her phone
Her approach to the self-tape[16:58]
• She did two takes, didn't watch them back, and just sent the tape in
• She placed Jesse's film camera nearby as a symbolic stand-in for him while she performed

Childhood auditioning and growing up working

Life at Oakwood Apartments and schooling

Kirsten's family stayed at Oakwood Apartments during pilot season when she was a kid[18:14]
• She lived there with her mom, brother, and grandmother while coming out from New Jersey
She attended regular school in Los Angeles[18:02]
• She went to Laurel Hall in the Valley, where she met her best friend, and says she was never home-tutored

Early auditions and disappointments

She auditioned for "Interview with the Vampire" and "The Secret Garden" around the same time[17:47]
• She did not get "The Secret Garden" and remembers sobbing over that loss

Transition to not auditioning as much

After success from "Interview with the Vampire" she didn't have to audition frequently[17:53]
• She auditioned for "Little Women" and later for "Spider-Man," which she jokes she did, in fact, get

Money, family support, and emotional stakes

Financial role in her family

Initially she framed her earnings as "fun" money or future college funds[20:56]
• After her parents divorced, she was making the most money, and the dynamic shifted
Current support for her mother[20:47]
• Kirsten says her mom lives in her back house now and she describes herself as a good daughter for that

Parenting, single-parent stretches, and schooling choices

Solo parenting while Jesse works

Kirsten admits she sometimes reaches a limit solo-parenting and will go to a friend's house to parent in company[24:49]
• She says one evening she "just couldn't" parent alone and brought the kids over to her friend's place instead of leaving them at home
Her sons and their ages[25:05]
• She has two boys, ages four and seven, and notes that two boys at those ages are "a lot"
Heartbreaking drawing slipped under the door[25:26]
• While getting ready for the podcast, one son slid a drawing under the door showing her in a room with the door closed and him outside sad, with the caption "I need you"
• She interprets it as him expressing sadness that she had the door shut while preparing for the show
Letting kids sleep in her bed and shared TV[25:49]
• When Jesse is away she lets the boys sleep in bed with her and describes herself as very indulgent about that
• They watch "Lego Masters" together, which she calls a fun, calming family show

Homeschooling vs. regular school

Kirsten rejects the idea of homeschooling for her kids[27:00]
• She says she doesn't want her kids to be "weird" and stresses the importance of them being around other kids for social interaction
• She acknowledges she knows parents who homeschool successfully but personally benefited from escaping adults and being with kids when she wasn't working

Lifestyle, travel for work, and nesting in the Valley

A difficult shoot in Budapest

Kirsten did not enjoy working in Budapest due to a family medical crisis[29:57]
• Her son had appendicitis requiring emergency surgery, then developed a blockage, so much of her time there was spent dealing with that ordeal
• She mentions people told her to drink the water; afterward she worried whether the water might have contributed, though she doesn't know
This health scare colored her view of Budapest[30:35]
• She sums up her Budapest experience as "horrible" and notes that the first part of their year was pretty bad overall

Preference for staying local

Kirsten says she's a nester who rarely leaves her neighborhood[32:10]
• She mainly stays within a radius defined by school drop-off and nearby restaurants and jokes that she doesn't leave the Valley

Food, junk food preferences, and pizza habits

Bob's Big Boy, Five Guys, and valley food spots

They mention Bob's Big Boy and other classic valley burger and pizza joints[36:17]
• Kirsten says she likes going to Bob's Big Boy for the car nights but doesn't necessarily want to eat there

Last-meal junk food choices

Jason chooses pizza and well-done fries as his final junk food meal[38:29]
Sean leans toward spaghetti as his comfort food and wants vanilla ice cream[38:44]
Kirsten picks In-N-Out as her ultimate junk food choice[39:10]
• Her specific order is a cheeseburger with extra spread, no onions, and a chocolate shake; she does not go for the Double-Double
Will's pizza details[38:40]
• Will would choose pizza with sausage and onions, emphasizing a crispy undercarriage on the crust, and a chocolate shake

Pizza crust and peanut butter habit

Kirsten reveals a college habit of saving pizza crusts to dip them in peanut butter later[39:30]
• The hosts react with mock horror and humor, with Will jokingly calling her a "fat fuck" with affection

Protecting In-N-Out burger heat

Kirsten has a specific routine to keep In-N-Out burgers hot and avoid soggy buns[39:51]
• She insists takeout bags should be tightly wrapped and the car's air conditioning turned off so the burgers stay warm and the bun doesn't get ruined

Acting craft: routines, line learning, and dream work

Line memorization challenges and no interest in a one-woman show

Kirsten admits she's getting worse at remembering lines[40:55]
• She says reading a script where the character talks a lot now makes her doubt if she can handle the memorization
Reluctance to do theater, especially a solo show[41:26]
• When asked if she'd do a one-woman show on Broadway, she replies "oh hell no" and notes she doesn't like the idea of doing a play in general right now

Dream work as an acting tool

Kirsten describes a practice she uses called "dream work" with a coach[41:56]
• She writes herself a note at night with questions about her character, asking her unconscious for information
• Whatever she dreams, she writes down and then discusses with her coach to see how it might be implemented into the script and character
Closing out a character[42:31]
• When a film is done, she writes herself another note stating she's finished with the character and signs out, as a way of psychologically closing the role

Saturday Night Live memories

Hosting SNL and childhood appearances

Kirsten says hosting SNL was one of the best times of her life because she grew up watching the show[43:07]
• She now watches SNL with her kids, who request specific sketches like Bill Hader's puppet sketch, and she shows them classic bits like Chris Farley in the decaf Colombian coffee sketch
Her early background work on SNL[43:32]
• As a child, she played Dana Carvey's grandchild in a George Bush couch sketch, sitting next to him eating popcorn as an extra
• She also appeared in one of Victoria Jackson's spoof commercials as a kid
Legacy feeling of returning to SNL[44:47]
• When she hosted, they showed her old clip on the air and she notes that a still of her and Dana Carvey on the couch is displayed in the main hallway at SNL, making it a family legacy

How she spends downtime and TV-watching habits

Day off routine

On a recent free day she dropped the kids off, went to Pilates, and then just lay in bed and watched TV[44:32]
• She emphasizes she doesn't want to make TV, she wants to watch it when she's off

Watching TV in bed vs. on the couch

Kirsten confirms she watches TV in bed and has a bedroom TV[45:59]
• She says Jesse also uses the bedroom TV but they don't fall asleep with it on as a rule
Jason contrasts his and Amanda's habits[46:23]
• He notes Amanda watches TV in bed on an iPad while he prefers the couch, and if they have devices on simultaneously at night, she uses headphones

Directors, PTA anecdote, and manifestation joke

Wanting to work with Paul Thomas Anderson

Kirsten names Paul Thomas Anderson as the one major director she still really wants to work with[47:11]
• She mentions his upcoming movie looks great and believes it will be huge
PTA recommended her for "Melancholia"[48:23]
• She says PTA recommended her to Lars von Trier for "Melancholia," which she counts as a meaningful connection

Strange phone call from PTA about another actor

She recalls PTA calling her saying he needed to talk to her about something, making her think he might be offering her a role[48:34]
• After extensive phone tag, they finally connected and he simply asked what it was like working with a particular actor he was considering, which she describes as "mean" in a teasing way
Awareness of the pressure PTA interactions create[49:04]
• She notes it must be so much pressure for him, since every actor he contacts is hoping this is "their moment" to get cast by him

Manifestation banter

Will jokingly defends manifestation and the idea of putting things out into the universe[49:24]
• Kirsten says her attitude is often, "Why not me?" about opportunities, which they tie into manifestation talk

Meeting Jesse Plemons and their relationship

First meeting and strong early connection

Kirsten and Jesse met on season two of "Fargo"[50:53]
• She vividly remembers seeing him at LAX for the first time; it's a rare first meeting she can picture so clearly
On-set chemistry and feeling drawn to him[50:53]
• Working together, she felt they were "soulmate enmeshed" in their characters and process and didn't want to be away from him, even at lunch
• She would casually ask what he was doing for lunch just to keep being around him

Respectful timing and eventual relationship

Both were in relationships while filming "Fargo"[51:19]
• She says they both "kind of knew" but remained totally respectful while still in their respective relationships
They got together a year later[52:19]
• They kept in touch after the show, only starting their relationship about a year later when they were both single, with their first hang-out at South by Southwest
Length of relationship and marriage timing[51:44]
• They've been together about 10 years and married after having kids, roughly three years prior to this conversation

Roofman film discussion

Plot overview based on true story

Jason outlines the premise: it's based on a real person who robbed about 45 McDonald's via the roof[55:54]
• The title "Roofman" comes from his method of entering through roofs during robberies
Notorious Toys "R" Us hideout[56:00]
• Jason explains that the real man hid out in a Toys "R" Us for six months, which is dramatized in the film

Tone and warmth of the movie

Jason praises the film's tone as warm and winning despite being about a serial robber[56:13]
• He says it never becomes overly dark or sappy and maintains a delicate tone that he describes as a "high wire act"
Derek Cianfrance's directing[56:35]
• Jason credits director Derek Cianfrance for sustaining that spirit and handling the material with warmth without manipulation
Kirsten's co-star Channing Tatum[56:40]
• Kirsten confirms Channing Tatum co-stars and calls him "a real one" and a genuinely good person

Why she took the part

She says she would have done anything with Derek Cianfrance due to how much she values working with him[57:51]
• She admits this particular role might not be one she'd normally gravitate toward, but the chance to collaborate with him was the deciding factor
Desire to work with him again[57:58]
• She declares she wants to work with Derek again, saying the experience was everything she hoped it would be

Career direction and desire for comedy

Choosing next projects

Kirsten doesn't have a rigid long-term plan; she tends to wait and see what comes to her[58:58]
• She acknowledges she has done a lot of intense, small, character-driven films recently

Craving something big and fun

She explicitly says she wants her next project to be something fun, ideally a comedy[59:10]
• She mentions wanting to do "something big and fun" after heavier experiences like the Budapest shoot

State of studio comedies and audience appetite

They lament the scarcity of big, fun studio ensemble comedies in the current marketplace[59:19]
• Kirsten predicts studios will eventually have to bring them back because the world is so dark and people will crave that lightness
Jason notes current success of darker films[1:00:23]
• He observes that scary movies are doing particularly well, referencing a film called "Weapons" that he praises

Moviegoing preferences and what her kids watch

Preferring theaters over home viewing

Kirsten says she prefers going to the movie theater over watching films at home[1:00:33]
• When she watches movies at home, she tends to fall asleep, so theaters help her stay engaged

Her kids' taste in movies

Her four-year-old likes the first "Venom" movie[1:00:57]
• Kirsten acknowledges she probably shouldn't have shown it to him at that age but notes that she herself saw "The Exorcist" very young
Four-year-old's fascination with "Jaws"[1:01:22]
• Her younger son begged to watch "Jaws," so she and Jesse showed him the first ten minutes, trying to explain that the girl being pulled around was actually on a rope
• Despite that, he still went into the ocean afterward, though she jokes he might avoid Santa Monica Pier

Wrap-up and post-interview host reflections

Closing with Kirsten

They thank Kirsten for coming on, calling her a great mom, wife, and artist and expressing excitement for "Roofman" and "The Entertainment System is Down"[1:02:26]

Hosts debrief on her visit

Jason mentions a bonus moment when Kirsten's boys came into the room at the end[1:02:55]
• Will did his Lego Batman voice for them, which Jason says blew their minds and was very cute
Admiration for her career and future[1:03:18]
• They note that despite a long, impressive career, she's "not even halfway done" and is just getting warmed up

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Awards and external validation are unpredictable, so grounding your satisfaction in the experience of making the work is more sustainable than chasing wins.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my life am I overly focused on winning or external recognition instead of valuing the process itself?
  • • How would I approach my current project differently if I treated the experience as the real reward?
  • • What is one area where I can deliberately shift my attention from the outcome to the craft this week?
2

Auditioning or competing for opportunities can be reframed as a meaningful victory in itself, especially when it reconnects you with the excitement of earning something.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What recent situation did I view as a "test" that I could instead reframe as an opportunity to grow or prove something to myself?
  • • How might seeing each interview, pitch, or audition as a potential win change the energy I bring into it?
  • • What is one upcoming opportunity I can prepare for in a way that makes the attempt feel like a success regardless of the result?
3

Maintaining a sense of normalcy and social connection is crucial when working in unusual or high-pressure environments, both for yourself and for your kids.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways could I be more intentional about creating "normal" routines or spaces in the middle of chaotic work periods?
  • • How might my family or close relationships benefit if I prioritized their social and emotional needs alongside my career demands?
  • • What is one concrete habit I can add or remove this month to make everyday life feel more grounded for myself and those around me?
4

Tapping into your unconscious-through dreams, reflection, or quiet inquiry-can deepen creative work and reveal character or problem insights you might not access rationally.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What big question about my work or life could I pose to myself before bed to invite deeper, subconscious thinking?
  • • How could I build a simple morning habit of capturing dreams, loose ideas, or intuitions before they fade?
  • • Where in my current project could I experiment with stepping back from analysis and instead letting ideas surface more organically?
5

Career seasons change, and it's healthy to periodically reassess what kinds of projects or challenges you need next-whether that's something heavier, lighter, riskier, or more fun.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If I look at the last few years of my work, what "tone" or theme dominates the kinds of challenges I've taken on?
  • • How do I actually want my next professional chapter to feel-lighter, more ambitious, more collaborative, more stable?
  • • What is one type of project, role, or responsibility I can start saying no to so I can make room for the kind I want more of?
6

Strong partnerships often start with mutual respect and patience about timing, especially when both people have demanding careers and existing commitments.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my relationships do I need to practice more patience instead of pushing for immediate clarity or change?
  • • How might I better align my own timing and responsibilities with someone else's in a way that respects us both?
  • • What boundary or principle am I not willing to compromise on, even if it means waiting longer for something (or someone) I want?

Episode Summary - Notes by Rowan

"Kirsten Dunst"
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