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Planet Money

TikTok's Trojan Horse Strategy

with Dallas Taylor, Afrik Lennon, Roscoe Williamson

Published October 22, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Planet Money teams up with sound design podcast 20,000 Hertz to explain how TikTok created and deployed one of the most effective sonic logos of the last decade. Sound designers Afrik Lennon and Roscoe Williamson describe TikTok's brief, the months-long creative process, and how they arrived at the distinctive boom-bling sound built around an 808 kick, an E major 7 chord, and even an accidental dog bark. The episode also details TikTok's covert "sonic sticker" rollout and how automatically attaching the logo to downloaded videos turned it into a Trojan horse that spreads across rival platforms.

Topics Covered

Sonic branding Branding and naming Digital advertising Marketing and customer education Social media and online platforms User-generated content Streaming media industry Pre-awareness marketing Data-driven decision-making Content creation

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • TikTok commissioned Massive Music to create a sonic logo that would feel joyful and welcoming while appealing to a broader, older audience beyond Gen Z.
  • Sound designers Afrik Lennon and Roscoe Williamson iterated through more than 2,000 versions before landing on the final logo built around an overblown 808 bass hit and a bright E major 7 chord.
  • Consumer testing showed that a slightly unresolved E major 7 chord felt less childish and more appealing and memorable than a straightforward E major, helping to sell it internally.
  • An accidentally retained, heavily processed dog bark under the chord gave the logo extra character, and removing it made the sound feel flatter.
  • TikTok and Massive Music pre-seeded short "sonic stickers" derived from a longer blueprint track onto the platform under an alias so creators would use them before the official sonic brand launch.
  • TikTok automatically appends the sonic logo to downloaded and cross-posted videos, effectively embedding a mini TikTok presence inside competing platforms like Instagram and Reddit.
  • The success of TikTok's sonic identity illustrates how treating sound strategically, with both artistic intuition and scientific testing, can create a powerful, cross-platform branding asset.
  • Instagram later introduced its own sonic ID that now plays at the end of downloaded Reels, following TikTok's lead in attaching brand sound to exported content.

Podcast Notes

Cold open: Viral videos and a shared TikTok sound

Introductions and setup of the sound-focused collaboration

Kenny introduces Dallas Taylor from 20,000 Hertz[0:19]
• Kenny identifies Dallas as host of one of his favorite podcasts, 20,000 Hertz, which covers all things sound and sound design.
• Dallas greets Kenny, establishing him as a guest voice on Planet Money.
Description of the "internet video" game format[0:40]
• Kenny and Dallas agree to surprise each other with a video they are currently into from the internet.
• Kenny notes the game is partly to prove a point that will connect to the episode's theme.

Dallas's video: Connecting Shredder's voice to a sitcom actor

Dallas describes the Instagram video and his 80s nostalgia[0:47]
• Dallas says he is a child of the 80s and got the video from Instagram via a friend.
• The video's premise is to connect the voice of Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to a popular sitcom actor.
Kenny listens and discovers Shredder is voiced by Uncle Phil[1:32]
• Dallas plays clips: first Shredder speaking, then a clip from a sitcom.
• Kenny realizes the voice is Uncle Phil from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and reacts with surprise.
• Dallas confirms the voice actor for Shredder is Uncle Phil and plays more juxtaposed lines.
• Both admit they were big fans of Ninja Turtles and Fresh Prince but had never connected the voices.

Kenny's video: The Potluck Courtroom on Reddit

Kenny explains the potluck video trend[2:04]
• He describes a trend where people post videos introducing themselves and what dish they brought to a potluck.
• He gives example lines like "I'm Kenny and I brought seven layer bean dip" and "I'm Dallas and I brought ambrosia salad."
Introduction of Shay and the Potluck Courtroom[2:26]
• Kenny introduces a content creator named Shay who plays a judge in what they call the Potluck Courtroom.
• Shay edits themselves into other potluck videos, humorously rendering judgment on each dish.
Examples of Shay's comedic judgments[2:28]
• A person introduces cheesecake croissants from Costco, and Shay responds that they did not make it and sentences them to "25 years in the hole, no parole."
• Another person brings root beer floats and Shay jokes that they will "float with the fishes" and be given a pirate's burial.
• Shay casually adds punishment for another person with "give her the thumbscrew," which Kenny notes is an actual 17th century torture device.

Revealing the shared TikTok sonic logo

Both videos include the same closing sound[3:26]
• Kenny points out that although Dallas found his video on Instagram and Kenny found his on Reddit, both videos end with the same sound.
• The sound is identified as the TikTok sonic logo.
Framing the episode's focus on the TikTok sound[3:26]
• Kenny says the backstory of this audio logo is the focus of the episode.
• He explains that TikTok realized its users made viral videos that spread to other platforms like Instagram and Reddit, and TikTok wanted a way to get credit and draw people back.
• Dallas characterizes the problem as effectively placing an ad on other platforms to signal viewers that the content originated on TikTok.
Dallas evaluates the effectiveness of the TikTok sonic logo[4:18]
• Dallas, as a professional sound designer, is asked how effective he thinks TikTok's boom-bling sound has been.
• He states that it is the most effective sonic logo of the past 10 years.

Formal introduction: Planet Money x 20,000 Hertz and sonic branding context

Show introductions and episode framing

Planet Money and 20,000 Hertz collaboration[4:46]
• Kenny welcomes listeners to Planet Money and introduces himself.
• Dallas introduces himself as host of 20,000 Hertz, noting that this episode is produced in conjunction with that sound design podcast.
• They describe the episode as the backstory to one of the most successful audio branding campaigns in recent history.
• They frame it as a tale of guerrilla marketing and the power of sonic suggestion, plus how sound designers actually come up with such a sound.
• Dallas teases that there is a hidden animal sound inside the TikTok logo.

What is a sonic logo? Examples and industry background

From visual logos to sonic identities

McDonald's jingle as an iconic sonic logo[6:55]
• Dallas notes that just having an amazing visual logo, like McDonald's golden arches, is no longer enough.
• He plays the McDonald's "I'm lovin' it" jingle and comments it will take weeks to get out of his head, which is the intent.
Definition and goals of sonic logos[8:06]
• Dallas explains that this type of sound is called a sonic logo.
• He says it's important for a sonic logo to become an earworm, easily remembered and potentially sung or hummed.

Introduction of sonic branding experts

Afrik Lennon and Roscoe Williamson's roles[7:29]
• Dallas introduces Afrik Lennon, who spent almost a decade at Massive Music, working alongside Roscoe Williamson.
• They helped design sonic branding for companies, including work related to TikTok.
Rise of sonic branding[8:06]
• Afrik says sonic branding has become more popular in the last decade.
• She cites the rise of smart speakers, streaming, and podcasting as drivers for more sound-focused brand identities.
Planet Money's own sonic logo[8:06]
• The familiar Planet Money sonic logo plays.
• Dallas jokes he is glad Planet Money does not use the clichéd old cash register "cha-ching" sound from the 1930s.

TikTok's brief and strategic goals for a sonic identity

TikTok's scale and lack of sonic identity

TikTok's popularity and music features[8:24]
• Dallas notes that around 2020 TikTok already had over 700 million users.
• A key part of TikTok's appeal was how easy it was for users to add music to their videos.
• Despite this, TikTok did not yet have a sonic identity or logo.
Massive Music wins the TikTok sonic logo project[8:31]
• Massive Music was already consulting with TikTok when TikTok decided to commission a sonic logo.
• Afrik describes a six-month, grueling pitch process, culminating in a final pitch right after Christmas.
• She says many team members worked through the Christmas holidays, but they were proud of the pitch and won the project "fair and square."

Brand positioning: aging up and "last sunny corner"

Desire to broaden beyond Gen Z[8:54]
• TikTok knew it had captured the Gen Z market but wanted to broaden its appeal.
• Afrik says TikTok did not want the sonic logo to skew too young because there was a big drive to engage older users.
Joyful, welcoming, and safe brand tone[9:28]
• In stakeholder interviews, someone described TikTok as "the last sunny corner of the internet."
• They wanted the sound to express a welcoming nature and a sense of safety on the platform.
Need for non-irritating, durable sound[9:35]
• Afrik says the logo needed to survive huge exposure without becoming annoying or jarring.
Encouraging community engagement and remixing[9:53]
• They wanted to create a sound that could be known, loved, embraced, and even remixed by the TikTok community.

Design process: From "TikTok" onomatopoeia to melodic motifs

Massive iteration and early experiments

Sheer volume of ideas explored[10:12]
• Roscoe estimates they went through over 2,000 iterations for the logo.
Leveraging the name's onomatopoeia[10:03]
• Early on, they focused on the onomatopoeia of the name "TikTok" and thought of the logo as a two-beat structure.
• They experimented with everyday objects around the house and office to find a tick-tock sound, even mimicking it with the mouth.
Prototype using user-generated content (UGC) sounds[10:43]
• An early version had a percussive "tick" sound followed by a UGC sound on the "tock" side, which to Dallas sounded like someone saying "Ow!"
• UGC stands for user-generated content, and they were using sounds from TikTok videos that had been cleared for use.

Concept of a constantly evolving logo: "Never the Same Twice"

Idea of a changing sound identity[11:09]
• They conceived an "ever-evolving" sonic logo concept they called "Never the Same Twice."
• The question was how to define the sound of a brand that constantly leans into changing musical trends.
• In this idea, each logo version would use a different UGC sound on the back half, while still maintaining a recognizable tick and tock structure.

Role of the 808 kick drum in early ideas

Choosing the 808 as the "tick"[11:26]
• For the initial tick sound, they liked using a kick drum from the iconic 808 drum machine as a homage to hip hop and bass music associated with the platform.
• In the "Never the Same Twice" concept, the 808 tick would stay fixed while the UGC-based tock changed.
• They demoed versions where, for instance, a UGC exclamation served as the changing second sound.
Abandoning the evolving logo in favor of consistency[12:07]
• They realized TikTok needed a more consistent asset that could become an iconic association with the brand.
• The constantly changing logo concept was dropped, but they kept using the 808 kick as a foundation.

Further prototypes and the dog bark

Blown-out 808 plus processed sounds[12:14]
• Roscoe plays an early version with a blown-out 808 on the front and an unidentifiable UGC sound on the back, which he recalls might be a heavily processed dog bark.
• They acknowledge they are being somewhat coy but confirm the dog bark recollection.
Shifting toward more melodic approaches[12:38]
• After hundreds of iterations, they began to hone in on something more melodic.
• They preview a version where the back half uses a recognizably similar melodic motif, but in a toy piano timbre, with a likely reversed 808 on the front.
• Roscoe says that version lacked the right front-end cut-through and the back end was not bright enough.

Creative fatigue and moment of discovery

Exhaustion from micro-iterations[12:38]
• Roscoe describes reaching a point where they felt they were going insane from listening to two-second clips over and over.
• He says their minds felt like they were coming out of their ears, describing a "pit of despair" wondering if they would ever find the right sound.
The version that "popped out"[13:32]
• Suddenly a version "popped out" that made everyone on the call stop and ask to hear it again.

Anatomy of the final TikTok boom-bling logo

Front half: Overblown 808 as divider

Function of the sub-bass hit[13:56]
• Roscoe says the tick is a sub-bass 808, which nods to the platform's musicality and acts as a functional divider.
• Stress testing showed the 808 works as a divider between whatever music users had in their content and the closing chord.

Back half: Ascending, sunny chord motif

Expressing joy and "last sunny corner" idea[14:28]
• The ascending melody on the back end was chosen to instill a sense of joy, linked to TikTok as the "last sunny corner" of the internet.
Choice of timbre: Sine wave and marimba[14:40]
• The chord's timbre is created by layering a sine wave with a marimba.
• Roscoe notes marimbas have been very successful in branding for decades because they are warm and cut through well.
• He mentions people recognize marimbas from music, media, and commercials, and that they are widely used for good reasons.

Harmonic choice: E major 7 versus E major

Explaining the E major 7 chord[15:12]
• Roscoe states the chord is E major 7, consisting of root, major third, perfect fifth, and major seventh.
• He explains the major seventh adds an unusual flavor and is used in jazz, R&B, hip-hop, and pop to give a sense of wonder.
Internal pushback favoring simple E major[15:53]
• Roscoe says a prominent stakeholder insisted it had to be an E major chord because E major is bright and happy.
• He demonstrates E major and contrasts it with E major 7, explaining the difference lies in the fourth note: the 7th versus a higher root.
• He plays both chords in the context of the full logo so listeners can hear the difference.
Consumer testing and decision to keep E major 7[16:37]
• Afrik and Roscoe strongly favored the E major 7 and ran consumer tests in key markets to compare versions.
• Testing indicated the resolved E major version came through as more childish, which TikTok wanted to avoid.
• The unresolved E major 7 was perceived as more appealing and more recallable, aligning with the goal to age up the brand sound.
• Audience data helped convince stakeholders and get final buy-in for the E major 7 chord.

Hidden dog bark: the accidental ingredient

Discovery of the embedded bark[17:46]
• Beneath the chord, there is another subtle sound which, when isolated, is revealed to be a dog bark.
• Roscoe confirms it's the same dog bark from an earlier UGC-based prototype.
How the dog bark stayed in[17:46]
• Roscoe calls the bark a mistake left in by accident after 2,000 logo versions left their minds like jelly.
• They only noticed it after the logo had been signed off and debated whether to remove it.
• When they took the bark out, the logo lost character and felt weaker, so they decided to keep it.
• The dog bark became the accidental final ingredient of the sound.

Nicknaming the finished logo "Boom Bling"

Internal label for the TikTok sonic logo[18:31]
• Internally, Africa and Roscoe started calling the final logo "the Boom Bling" to reflect its bass boom and bright chord.
• They now had a completed logo with bass hit, ascending chord, and hidden dog bark.

Trojan Horse rollout: Sonic stickers and incognito seeding

Beyond a logo: Full sonic system and blueprint song

Scope of a typical sonic branding delivery[18:31]
• Kenny explains that when a company pays for a sonic brand, they usually get more than just a logo: they receive chord progressions, melodies, motifs, and sound design elements.
• These elements are extensions of the sonic brand into music, forming a holistic identity.
TikTok's blueprint track[18:24]
• Massive Music stitched TikTok's sonic elements into a single blueprint song that contains the entire new sound identity.
• Kenny plays a portion of this blueprint song for listeners.

Creating and deploying "sonic stickers"

From blueprint song to short stickers[18:53]
• Dallas says they remixed the blueprint into short 10-15 second tracks called "sonic stickers."
• He plays stickers like "Boom," "What?", and "Aww" as examples.
Seeding stickers inside TikTok's sound library[20:14]
• These stickers were added to TikTok's sound library for creators to use in their videos.
• Roscoe says they started seeding them onto the platform before the official launch of the sonic brand.
• They launched them incognito under an alias called "Sonic Collective."
Trojan horse strategy and creator adoption[20:38]
• Dallas characterizes this as using the stickers as a Trojan horse to introduce users to the new branded sounds.
• They observed creators starting to pick up the stickers and make content with them, such as a tracer admiring graffiti art or someone showcasing $1.25 items.
• After the sonic brand officially launched, TikTok announced these sonic stickers were official TikTok sounds.
• People did not realize they had already been engaging with the sonic identity before launch.
Scale and ongoing use of sonic stickers[21:50]
• Roscoe notes that, at the time of recording, around 30,000 pieces of content had been created using these sonic stickers.
• He describes the sonic identity as a living, breathing system rather than a static asset.
• Dallas comments that it's usually hard to get people to engage with a sonic brand, making this sticker approach particularly clever.

Embedding TikTok's sound across the internet

Automatic attachment of the boom-bling logo

How TikTok appends the logo to downloads[22:13]
• Dallas explains that when you download a TikTok video (if the creator allows it), TikTok automatically adds the sonic logo to the end.
• The same happens when reposting a TikTok video to Instagram or YouTube; the logo is baked in so viewers know where it originated.
Perceptual effect on other platforms[22:26]
• Dallas notes that when he hears the boom-bling on another app, he feels like he is consuming TikTok content.
• He describes it as if TikTok embedded a mini version of their app inside competitors.

Competitors' lack of prominent sonic identities

Comparison with YouTube and other apps[22:44]
• Dallas observes that other social apps lack a meaningful sonic logo.
• He notes YouTube has a sonic logo, but he only hears it when opening YouTube on his television.
Impact of TikTok's cross-platform sound presence[22:58]
• TikTok's strategy means their sound is heard widely, including by people who are not TikTok users.
• After launch, they quickly saw results indicating the strategy's success, which amazed the sound designers.
• Roscoe states that hearing about the widespread adoption made them feel they had done their job.

Sonic branding as a blend of science and art

Obviousness in hindsight and competitive advantage

Retrospective view on TikTok's first-mover status[25:28]
• Dallas remarks that in hindsight it's hard to believe TikTok was the first social platform to add a sonic logo to its videos.
• He says it's one of those ideas that seem obvious after the fact.
• He frames this as what happens when sound is treated both as a science and as an art.

Afrik and Roscoe's scientific and musical backgrounds

Roscoe's path from chemistry to sonic branding[25:51]
• Roscoe says he originally studied chemistry at university.
• He then got into playing in bands, leading his parents to question what he was doing with his life.
• He discovered sonic branding as a perfect blend of science and art.
Afrik's neuroscience of music focus[25:55]
• Afrik says she studied biomedical science and later specialized in the neuroscience of music and sound.
• She is obsessed with understanding how music impacts the mind and behavior.
• She has always been a musician and singer, and sonic branding excites her as a blend of science and art that gets her up in the morning.

Instagram's sonic ID and episode wrap-up

Instagram follows TikTok with its own sonic logo

Timing and Kenny's awareness[26:20]
• Kenny returns to provide an update that about two years after TikTok released its sonic ID, Instagram released its own.
• He admits he had never heard the Instagram sonic ID before preparing this update.
Behavior of Instagram's sonic ID on Reels[26:59]
• Kenny says the Instagram sonic logo has apparently existed for more than a year.
• They tested it and found the Instagram sonic logo does play at the end of a video when you download someone's Reel.
Comparative listening and listener feedback request[27:49]
• Kenny replays TikTok's sonic ID and then introduces the Instagram sonic ID, which is played for listeners.
• He invites listeners to share their thoughts on the comparison by emailing planetmoney@npr.org.

Promotion of 20,000 Hertz and production credits

Encouraging listeners to follow 20,000 Hertz[27:13]
• Kenny suggests listeners follow 20,000 Hertz for more stories about sound.
• Dallas is invited to take the credits and does so.
Joint episode production credits[27:25]
• Dallas states that 20,000 Hertz is produced out of the sound design studios of DeFacto Sound.
• He credits Nicholas Harder as writer and producer, with story editing by Casey Emmerling and Andrew Anderson and help from Grace East.
• He names Brandon Pratt as sound designer and mixer.
• Kenny notes that the Planet Money adaptation was produced by James Sneed and edited by Jess Jang, with Alex Goldmark as executive producer.
• Kenny and Dallas sign off together, followed by the NPR tag line "This is NPR" and thanks for listening.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Treating sound as a core brand asset, not an afterthought, can give a company a distinct, memorable presence across platforms far beyond visual logos alone.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your own work or business could a consistent audio cue make your presence more recognizable and memorable?
  • • How might investing in a carefully designed sound or short jingle change how people perceive and recall your product or message?
  • • What is one touchpoint this week where you could deliberately experiment with adding a simple, consistent sound to reinforce your brand?
2

Pre-seeding new ideas in low-key, "incognito" ways can build familiarity and acceptance before a formal launch, making adoption feel natural instead of forced.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What new initiative or product are you planning that could benefit from a quiet, early test with a subset of real users?
  • • How could you introduce elements of your next project under a neutral or experimental label to gather honest usage data and reactions?
  • • In the next month, where could you run a small, low-risk pilot that lets people experience your idea before you announce it publicly?
3

Combining creative intuition with structured testing-like A/B testing variations-helps resolve subjective debates and leads to choices that actually resonate with the intended audience.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which current decision in your work is stuck in opinion-based debate that could be informed by a simple, structured test?
  • • How can you design a quick experiment to compare two or three options with real users instead of relying purely on internal preferences?
  • • What is one decision this week where you will commit to gathering objective feedback before locking in your choice?
4

Designing for long-term exposure means prioritizing subtlety and non-irritating qualities, so assets like sounds or messages can be encountered thousands of times without causing fatigue.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What recurring touchpoints (emails, notifications, sounds, messages) in your environment might be slowly irritating or tiring your audience?
  • • How could you soften, shorten, or simplify an element you expect people to encounter frequently so it remains pleasant over time?
  • • When you next create something meant to be repeated, what criteria will you use to ensure it stays engaging rather than annoying?
5

Cross-platform thinking-designing assets that travel well and retain your attribution-can turn other people's ecosystems into amplifiers for your own brand or message.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are your ideas or content currently being shared without any clear link back to you or your organization?
  • • How might you embed subtle but unmistakable attribution (visual, audio, or structural) so that when your work travels, people know where it came from?
  • • What is one asset you already produce that you could tweak this week to carry your identity more clearly when it is shared elsewhere?

Episode Summary - Notes by Sage

TikTok's Trojan Horse Strategy
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