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Pivot

Saudi Comedy Festival Controversy, Threads' Major Milestone, and Trump's Movie Tariff

Published September 30, 2025
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About This Episode

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway discuss Donald Trump's proposed 100% tariff on movies made outside the U.S., arguing it would damage Netflix, Hollywood, and global content arbitrage, and then pivot to the Saudi state-backed Riyadh Comedy Festival, criticizing free-speech-branded comedians who accepted contracts barring criticism of the kingdom and religion. They examine consumer backlash that forced Sinclair and Nexstar to restore Jimmy Kimmel, Threads surpassing X in daily active users and changing media consumption habits, Trump's pressure-driven TikTok divestment plan that advantages major donors, his retribution-focused indictment of James Comey, the economic stupidity of tariffs and farm bailouts, and close with wins and fails plus a brief call for tighter limits on AI products for children.

Topics Covered

Comedy Free speech and censorship Tariffs Streaming media industry Social media and online platforms U.S. politics and elections International trade U.S.-China competition Consumer activism AI governance

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Trump's floated 100% tariff on foreign-made movies would undercut Netflix's largely overseas production strategy and raise costs for U.S. consumers while triggering reciprocal tariffs abroad.
  • Kara condemns comedians like Dave Chappelle and others performing at the Saudi state-backed Riyadh Comedy Festival under strict no-criticism clauses as hypocrites given their free-speech posturing.
  • Scott admits he speaks in the Gulf and takes the money, arguing for realpolitik engagement with Saudi Arabia and India while conceding the comics who rail about censorship deserve to be called out.
  • Consumer and advertiser backlash forced Sinclair and Nexstar to quickly restore Jimmy Kimmel Live, which Kara and Scott see as proof of the economic power citizens can wield against political censorship.
  • Threads has surpassed X in daily active users, and both hosts say they now prefer Threads and other platforms like Blue Sky, Reddit, and LinkedIn over X for a healthier, less toxic experience.
  • Scott criticizes Trump's TikTok deal as cronyism and anti-capitalist, carving up a discounted U.S. TikTok stake for Republican mega-donors while likely leaving the CCP's algorithmic leverage intact.
  • They frame Trump's indictment of James Comey as pure intimidation and political vengeance designed to chill opposition rather than achieve legal victories.
  • Scott calls farm bailouts driven by retaliatory tariffs an absurd circular transfer where the government harms farmers with tariffs, then borrows money from the future to partially repair the damage.
  • In closing, both argue that AI and synthetic relationships should be tightly limited for children, with Kara insisting AI should not be in toys and Scott calling for age-tiered restrictions similar to movie ratings.

Podcast Notes

Introduction, tour announcements, and personal health routines

Pivot live tour and banter

Kara and Scott announce they are taking Pivot on the road to seven cities[2:38]
• Cities mentioned: Toronto, Boston, New York, Washington D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles
Scott jokes about badly managed cities and "coming in with rifles" to "clean this shit up"[3:21]
• He compares the tour hyperbolically to events like Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl and Taylor Swift but "much less expensive"

Kara's health changes and running routine

Scott asks Kara what surprising things she has started or stopped doing related to health[3:44]
• Kara says she had a basic regimen and was not a person who tried every new health thing
Kara describes restarting running and enjoying it[4:03]
• She runs three to four times a week with a good new pair of structured shoes
Diet and lifestyle adjustments at home[4:27]
• Kara says her family is in her "crosshairs" because she has pushed to reduce nightly sweets and desserts
• She emphasizes fewer processed foods and more whole foods like steak, potato, and salad, despite not eating much meat
Supplements and basic health habits[4:51]
• Kara says she does not take supplements, not even a multivitamin, but drinks a lot of kefir and avoids overdoing protein
• She mentions sleeping a little better and trying not to get worked up about everything as much

Scott's health regimen and exercise emphasis

Scott lists what he does for health[5:40]
• He mentions taking vitamin A, vitamin D, NAD, testosterone, and Botox
• He has worked out four times a week for the last 40 years
Both agree exercise is the most important element for mental health[6:00]
• Kara says she believes exercise matters most for mental health, and Scott agrees "100%"
Light banter about badminton[6:12]
• Kara muses about playing badminton and suggests she and Scott should play together

Family updates, college choices, and American universities

Scott's family time and college application process

Scott describes returning to London and family activities[6:26]
• He notes good weather, going to a Chelsea football game with his youngest, and that his oldest is home working on college applications
Kara mentions universities asking about Scott's son[7:43]
• She references being at the University of Wisconsin with Jessica Yellen and at the University of Minneapolis, and says people also asked about Scott at Michigan

Scott on favorite colleges his son visited

Top picks and out-of-state issues[7:21]
• Scott says his son was blown away by UNC and UVA but those schools don't like out-of-state students; he also loved Michigan and UW-Madison

American strengths in universities and other sectors

Scott lists sectors where he thinks the U.S. excels[7:48]
• He says America does a small number of things very well: the best weapons, software technology, media, and "hands down" the best universities in the world
• Kara jokingly adds "barbecue" to the list, and Scott agrees

Trump's proposed 100% movie tariff and global content arbitrage

Overview of Trump's movie tariff idea

Kara summarizes Trump's announcement of a 100% tariff on movies made outside the U.S.[8:46]
• She notes he did not explain when it would happen or how it would work and that he made a similar threat in May
• Kara says it would affect Netflix, as many movies are made outside the U.S.

Scott's critique of the tariff as an "own goal"

Scott points out Netflix's dependence on foreign production[9:26]
• He says more than 50% of Netflix's content budget is now produced overseas, and Netflix has fueled Hollywood with record content budgets
Tariff implications for subscriptions and stock prices[9:37]
• Scott argues tariffs would dramatically increase Netflix subscription costs, reduce available content, and gut a top-performing media stock
Impact on Marvel and big studio films[9:56]
• Kara notes almost every Marvel movie has some production component overseas, and Scott agrees all of them do

Geographic arbitrage in media production

Scott explains two core ways to add shareholder value[10:02]
• He defines one as growing top-line revenue and the other as decreasing costs
Streaming wars and content spending[10:26]
• Scott says streaming has driven more subscriptions per household and fueled an arms race in content spending
Cost savings via overseas production[10:30]
• He says Netflix's $18 billion in content is equivalent to $30 billion from 10 years ago because of geographic arbitrage
• He cites Squid Game as an example: estimated at 70% of the cost of producing it in Atlanta and 30% of the cost of producing it in Los Angeles
Los Angeles losing out due to high costs[10:53]
• Scott says Los Angeles has been on the wrong side of arbitrage because it is too expensive
• He notes his own scripted big-tech series tried to film in LA but found it uneconomic and is likely to film in New Jersey and New York for tax reasons

AI as the next production arbitrage

Scott predicts AI will be another form of arbitrage in media production[11:38]
• They reference storyboarding, outfit testing, and other production tasks being accelerated or cheapened by AI tools like Runway
Kara notes states tried to lure productions back but lost ground[12:02]
• She says California and others offered incentives but had previously acted like Hollywood had no alternative locations, which proved wrong when productions moved
Scott doubts Trump's proposal will advance[12:11]
• He speculates Trump is impressed by movie stars and that powerful executives like Ted Sarandos or Reed Hastings will have influence
Reciprocal tariffs and content quotas abroad[13:00]
• Scott notes many foreign firms ship few films into the U.S., but they can impose reciprocal tariffs and local-content rules that hurt American media abroad
• He cites Canada's previous rule requiring a percentage of content to be domestically produced
Scott frames the move as a distraction tactic[13:07]
• He suggests Trump's "AI" might be searching for crazy announcements that command media attention and keep "Epstein" out of the news

Saudi Riyadh Comedy Festival, censorship contracts, and free speech hypocrisy

Background on the Riyadh Comedy Festival and participants

Kara outlines the festival and its political context[13:56]
• She says the state-sponsored Saudi event will feature over 50 comedians, including Kevin Hart, Hannibal Buress, and Dave Chappelle
• She reminds listeners that the Biden administration held Saudi Arabia responsible for the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi

Kara's criticism of comedians accepting censorship clauses

Kara describes the financial terms and gag clauses[14:16]
• She says comics are being offered enormous amounts of money but must promise not to talk negatively about the kingdom
She labels them "free speechers" being paid to avoid speaking[14:26]
• She calls them people who go on about free speech and then accept money not to speak critically

Scott's disclosure about speaking in the Gulf

Scott admits he has spoken in Riyadh and Dubai and cashed their checks[14:40]
• He says he does so openly, wholeheartedly, and without guilt, and mentions being paid a lot to speak to a big tech company in Nashville with some content requests
Distinction between comics and his own role[15:08]
• Scott notes that in Nashville he was asked not to discuss struggles of young men because there were parents in the audience
• Kara stresses comics are different because they publicly lecture others about free speech and then accept censorship

Kara's focus on hypocrisy of "free speech warriors"

Kara frames the issue as hypocrisy, not Saudi policy itself[15:50]
• She says she does not have a problem with Saudi Arabia per se but has a problem with comics who constantly talk about free speech and then agree to censorship for money
Specific contract language restricting comics[18:40]
• Kara reads language saying artists shall not perform material that degrades, defames, or brings disrepute, embarrassment, or ridicule to Saudi Arabia, its leadership, royal family, legal system, government, culture, people, or any religion or religious figure/practice
Examples of comics and reactions[18:40]
• Kara mentions a comic (she thinks Tim Dillon) who joked about taking the money and doing whatever Saudis say, and says he was dropped from the festival for acknowledging the censorship
• She notes Pete Davidson is performing despite his father dying on 9/11 and says he is allowing himself to be censored for their money, calling it his choice but "yuck"

Scott's geopolitical argument about Saudi Arabia and India

Scott emphasizes strategic importance of Saudi Arabia and India[17:51]
• He calls them the "new swing votes" in geopolitics, the largest fast-growing economies that could tilt toward Russia/Iran or toward America
• He argues the U.S. should "bear hug" and strengthen relations with both, and criticizes insulting India and pushing it toward China and Russia
Differentiating Gulf states and their internal politics[19:50]
• Scott says Americans tend to "wrap every country there in the same blanket" but notes differences among Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and their relationships with Iran and the U.S.
Scott concedes Kara is right on hypocrisy of comics[20:00]
• He says if comedians constantly complain about censorship and then sign such contracts, they should be called out, and he had not thought of that angle before Kara raised it

Consumer backlash, Jimmy Kimmel blackout, and economic power

Resolution of the Jimmy Kimmel blackout by Sinclair and Nexstar

Kara recaps the standoff and resolution[25:55]
• She says Nexstar and Sinclair brought Jimmy Kimmel Live back after demanding concessions like donations to Turning Point and an apology, none of which ABC/Disney granted
• She characterizes Sinclair's demands as being generous with other people's money and calls their Turning Point demand "ridiculous"

Scott on the economic power of consumers

Scott describes positive feedback to his "economic strike" idea[27:12]
• He recounts a man thanking him in person for his idea of an economic strike and says he has received a lot of positive feedback about consumers' economic power
He interprets the Kimmel outcome as a victory for coordinated economic pressure[28:08]
• Scott says advertisers and viewers likely cancelled Disney cruises, trips, and ad contracts with Sinclair/Nexstar, and that the companies "backed the fuck down" within about 72 hours
Scott calls this a "co-equal branch of government" via purchasing power[27:40]
• He argues there is effectively no co-equal governmental branch to Trump/MAGA right now, so coordinated consumer action can act as a check

Trump's pressure on Microsoft over Lisa Monaco

Kara explains Trump's demand that Microsoft fire Lisa Monaco[29:11]
• She notes Lisa Monaco is Microsoft's head of global affairs and served in the Biden administration, and Trump is pressuring Microsoft to remove her by name
Kara warns Microsoft against capitulating[28:52]
• She says if Satya Nadella or Microsoft removes her under this pressure, she will talk about it endlessly for years and calls such a firing "sickening" and autocratic
Scott compares left and right pressures to fire people[29:56]
• He notes the left has pressured companies to fire people for offensive speech (citing an actress on The Mandalorian), but says Republicans and Trump have escalated this into weaponizing government against entire industries and threatening jail

Threads vs X and shifting media consumption

Threads surpasses X in daily active users

Kara cites SimilarWeb data on Threads and X[37:45]
• She says Threads has passed X in daily active users, with Threads growing steadily while daily active users on X continue to drop, though users still spend more time on X

Scott's experience with alternative platforms

Scott describes investing in Post, which later closed[37:32]
• He says Post gained traction initially but lost steam and is now closed, and that he has been using both Blue Sky and Threads
He finds Threads more appealing than X[38:54]
• Scott says for his mental health he decided not to "paint that guy's fence" (Elon) and finds Threads seamlessly integrated with Instagram and more positive in what it elevates

Kara on feed quality across Threads and Blue Sky

Kara notes feed quality depends on what you pull in[39:51]
• She says Amanda has a bad Threads feed because she pulls from doomscrolling sources, whereas Kara's Threads feed is pleasant with cooking, refurbishment, and gardening content
She distinguishes news discovery on different platforms[40:46]
• Kara finds Blue Sky better for news consumption and interesting news, whereas Threads is less good for news but strong for enjoyable, light content
Blocking and tone compared with X[41:24]
• Both note it is easy to block people on Threads and Blue Sky, there is less vile content than on X, and most negative interactions there are just irritating rather than scary

Meta's structural advantage with Threads

Scott emphasizes Instagram's installed base[42:29]
• He says Threads has an "unnatural" advantage because 3 billion people are on Instagram, giving it rich data and seamless onboarding for Threads
He notes potential downsides to this integration[42:34]
• Scott says there might eventually be more innovation if these companies were separate, but still admits he really likes Threads

Broader shift in video and news consumption

Scott describes abandoning live TV for social platforms[44:04]
• He says he tried to watch his Smirconish appearance on CNN but could not get streaming set up and realized he has not watched CNN live in a year
• He now gets most of his news from social feeds, where platforms curate articles from outlets like Bloomberg and the New York Times better than the outlets' own sites do
Kara says her TV use has also dropped in favor of phone viewing[46:12]
• She describes choosing to watch a show like The Morning Show on her phone while eating dinner rather than on a television screen
Scott's "ROI vs screen size" rule for media businesses[45:53]
• He argues the larger the screen, the lower the ROI for content creators; he warns against relying on movie theaters and says the best business is monetizing content on phones
• He notes his childhood involved seven hours of TV a day, whereas now he watches maybe an hour to an hour and a half

TikTok divestment, CCP influence, and oligarchic deal-making

Trump's TikTok order and "100% MAGA" comment

Kara recaps Trump's MAGA remark about TikTok[46:26]
• She says Trump claimed he would make TikTok "100% MAGA" but then said it would not work that way and that all philosophies and policies would be treated fairly
Kara's main concern is price and favoritism[47:16]
• She says she is less worried about MAGA content and more concerned about the price and "gimme" nature of the deal for Trump's friends

Scott's critique of the TikTok sale structure

Scott supports banning TikTok but opposes the carve-up[48:28]
• He reiterates he is in favor of banning TikTok but says forcing a ban and then carving it up to give to Republican donors at a discount is anti-capitalist and wrong
ByteDance valuation and U.S. segment underpricing[49:22]
• Scott says ByteDance trades around $300-350 billion in private markets at roughly two times revenues and calls it the most undervalued tech company in the world relative to OpenAI
• He estimates about 20% of revenues come from the U.S., implying a $70 billion value for the U.S. operation, and argues donors are getting about an 80% discount
Algorithm control and CCP influence[50:23]
• Scott says the only way the deal might go through is if Xi Jinping figures out a backdoor into the algorithm, because the algorithm is everything
• He suggests TikTok can dial up pro-Trump content or dial down content about a Taiwan invasion, and that the CCP can shape American youth attitudes

Oligarchy, cronyism, and Democratic response

Scott criticizes Republican mega-donors' role[51:38]
• He names Mark Andreessen, Larry Ellison, and Michael Dell and says they present as free marketers until given a chance to be oligarchs in a rigged deal
He urges Democratic leaders to retaliate politically and legally[53:23]
• Scott says if he were a Democratic leader he would warn these donors that his "reach and memory are long" and that he is "coming for your ass" for engaging in cronyism and oligarchy
• He also suggests telling foreign governments like El Salvador that incarcerating good Americans will have consequences when U.S. leadership changes

Trump's retribution campaign and James Comey indictment

Details of the Comey indictment

Kara recaps charges and legal weaknesses[55:23]
• She says Comey was indicted on two felony counts related to 2020 Senate testimony about the Trump-Russia investigation after Trump put Lindsey Halligan, a former beauty queen with no federal prosecution experience, in charge
• Kara notes Halligan has made multiple errors in filings, the grand jury did not indict on all counts, and lawyers expect the case to be a "slam dunk" for Comey to beat

Scott's view of Comey and the case

Scott says if anyone should resent Comey it is Hillary Clinton[57:17]
• He criticizes Comey's 2016 letter about Clinton emails shortly before the election as violating FBI practice and posing for the cameras
He frames the new indictment as intimidation, not justice[57:45]
• Scott says the case will likely be swatted away but will force Comey to raise millions in legal fees and serve as a warning to others to stay out of Trump's way

Government's role versus generating anxiety

Scott describes what government is supposed to do for citizens[59:48]
• He says elected leaders should remove anxiety by ensuring safety, health care security, crime reduction, and prosperity, allowing people to focus on personal struggles
He contrasts that ideal with current vengeance politics[1:00:16]
• Scott argues current leaders, especially Trump, are focused on increasing anxiety and using government as a party of vengeance rather than preventing tragedies of the commons

Wins and fails: leadership, tariffs, Kimmel, and AI & kids

Kara's fail: Hakeem Jeffries' leadership and social media

Kara criticizes Jeffries' social media presence and strategic choices[1:06:58]
• She calls his social media so bad it makes her want to cry and says he needs a "Gavin Newsom social media intervention" or to get off social media
• She is frustrated he did not endorse Mamdani after Eric Adams dropped out and that he effusively praised Adams, concluding Jeffries is a big "L" for her in contrast to Nancy Pelosi's strategic skills

Kara's win: upcoming movies and fall slate

Kara expresses excitement about fall films[1:09:04]
• She mentions being most excited for Wicked and a new George Clooney film called "Jay Kelly" by Noah Baumbach, which she says looks funny and like Clooney playing himself
• She says she wants to see fun movies and does not have the energy for heavier films like the Leonardo DiCaprio film that others say is outstanding

Scott's fail: farm bailouts and tariff-induced harm

Scott explains the circular logic of tariffs and bailouts[1:11:34]
• He says the U.S. government effectively shoots farmers in the leg with tariffs, then borrows money from future generations to pay their hospital bills via bailouts
• He notes China responded to U.S. tariffs with big tariffs on soybeans, collapsing many farmers' businesses in red states and prompting bailouts
He argues China has structurally shifted purchases away from U.S. farmers[1:11:22]
• Scott says China has built new trade relationships with Brazil and Argentina and "they're not coming back to Iowa"

Scott's win: Kimmel reinstatement as consumer victory

Scott sees Sinclair and Nexstar backing down as a watershed[1:11:34]
• He notes Sinclair and Nexstar cover roughly a quarter of U.S. TV households and only reversed course because of backlash from viewers, advertisers, and advocates
• He calls it proof that when censorship attempts meet economic pressure, distributors will blink, and says it is a good moment showing how to connect overreach with economic punishment

Closing discussion: AI and children

Kara's stance on AI limits for kids[1:13:03]
• After referencing a separate interview about a teen suicide involving ChatGPT, Kara says she is incandescent about these issues and thinks AI should be limited with kids, not in toys or anything targeting them
Scott supports age-based restrictions on AI content[1:13:55]
• He argues we have PG-13 and R content rules and similarly believes character AI and synthetic relationships should not exist for people under 18
Both emphasize synthetic relationships are harmful for kids[1:13:32]
• Kara calls synthetic relationships "bullshit" and stresses that while AI may be fine for things like working on a business plan, it should not be embedded in products for children

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Coordinated consumer and advertiser pressure can be a powerful check on political overreach and corporate censorship when traditional political institutions are ineffective.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your own life could you use your purchasing choices to support or oppose a company's behavior instead of assuming political institutions will handle it?
  • • How might you collaborate with others-friends, colleagues, or online communities-to amplify economic pressure around an issue you care about?
  • • What is one concrete action you could take this month (canceling a service, writing to an advertiser, shifting your spending) to align your money with your values?
2

Publicly championing a principle while privately violating it-whether it's free speech, free markets, or anything else-invites justified scrutiny and can permanently damage credibility.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what areas do your public statements or self-image risk being out of sync with your actual choices or compromises?
  • • How would your decision-making change if you assumed that every contract you sign or deal you accept could become public?
  • • What is one principle you claim to value where you could tighten the alignment between your words and your behavior this week?
3

Tariff- and bailout-driven economic policies often create circular harm: they raise costs and distort markets, then use public money to paper over damage instead of addressing root causes.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How do you currently think about protectionist measures in your industry or country, and where might they be masking deeper structural problems?
  • • When you see a policy proposal that promises to "help" a group, do you pause to ask who's paying the bill and whether it fixes the underlying issue?
  • • What's one situation in your business or personal finances where you are treating symptoms with short-term fixes instead of confronting the structural problem?
4

The platforms and feeds you choose to inhabit effectively become your information diet, shaping your mood, worldview, and even how much time you waste or reclaim.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What patterns do you notice in how you feel after spending 20-30 minutes on each social or media platform you use regularly?
  • • How could you redesign your feed-through unfollows, blocks, or new sources-to tilt it toward information and interactions that actually serve your goals?
  • • What's one specific change you can make this week (time limit, app removal, new platform, or newsletter) to improve the quality of your information diet?
5

AI systems and synthetic relationships aimed at children demand much stricter boundaries than adult-facing tools, and failing to differentiate by age can create serious psychological and safety risks.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are AI-powered tools already intersecting with the children in your life-through toys, homework help, or social apps-and how well do you understand those systems?
  • • How might you apply an age-rating mindset (similar to movies or games) to decide what kinds of AI interactions are appropriate for different ages?
  • • What is one concrete boundary or rule you could establish this week around children's use of AI or chatbots to better protect their mental and emotional well-being?

Episode Summary - Notes by Sawyer

Saudi Comedy Festival Controversy, Threads' Major Milestone, and Trump's Movie Tariff
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