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Huberman Lab

DAVID SENRA: Daniel Ek, Spotify

with Daniel Ek

Published September 28, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Host David Senra speaks with Spotify founder Daniel Ek about optimizing life for impact rather than happiness, arguing that deep, sustained happiness is a trailing indicator of meaningful impact. Ek traces his journey from early financial success and subsequent depression to building Spotify as a long-term mission, emphasizing self-knowledge, founder archetypes, trust, creativity, and energy management. The conversation explores how he learns from other founders, delegates product decisions, focuses on problem-solving, and thinks about quality, longevity, and what it means to truly "live."

Topics Covered

Entrepreneurship Personal Development Leadership and management Creativity Growth mindset Work ethic Problem-first invention Investing Team culture Identity

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Daniel Ek believes sustained happiness is a trailing indicator of impact, and he encourages optimizing life for impact rather than short-term comfort or contentment.
  • Early financial success left Ek depressed and hollow, which pushed him to pursue long-term, meaningful work like Spotify instead of a life oriented around consumption.
  • Ek argues that founders must discover their own entrepreneurial archetype instead of copying famous role models, and build companies that are natural and authentic to who they are.
  • Trust and long-term relationships are core to how Ek operates; he deliberately surrounds himself with people who tell him the truth and act as mirrors.
  • Over time Ek stepped back from directly running product at Spotify, recognizing others were better at it and redefining his value as connecting creators, consumers, and business needs.
  • He actively seeks out "high-temperature" people and ideas-high variance, sometimes messy personalities-because even one brilliant insight can justify a lot of noise.
  • Ek manages his life more around energy than time, structuring his days and habits around what gives him energy and fits his own rhythms instead of conforming to generic productivity rules.
  • He sees quality as the result of focus, simplification, and relentless improvement, often inspired by craftspeople who devote decades to perfecting a narrow skill.
  • Ek views innovation as combining existing ideas in new ways to solve meaningful problems and believes the value of a company is the sum of problems it has solved.
  • He feels a responsibility to honor the sacrifices and drive of his younger self by continuing to push, learn, and "live" fully rather than downshifting into comfort.

Podcast Notes

Show introduction and framing of impact over happiness

Andrew Huberman introduces the new "David Senra" podcast

Huberman describes David Senra and the premise of the show[0:55]
• Says David Senra studies greatness, mainly in business but also creatives, athletes, and other world-class performers
• Explains the show: David sits down with top founders and "extreme winners" to understand drive, creation, overcoming failures, leadership, and tools for success
Episode context and guest identification[0:35]
• Huberman states that episode one is with Daniel Ek, the founder of Spotify
• He calls the conversation "absolutely spectacular" and urges listeners to subscribe to the new podcast named "David Senra"
• Mentions that episode two will be with Michael Dell, but the current episode is Daniel Ek

Origin of the conversation and the idea of optimizing for impact over happiness

How a previous private conversation changed Senra's life and work

Senra describes last year's dinner with Ek as his most impactful conversation of the year[1:19]
• He says Ek's advice and stories changed his approach to work and his life philosophy
• Notes he reads hundreds of biographies and rarely encounters truly novel ideas; Ek gave him one

Dara's story and the phrase "optimize for impact over happiness"

Senra reads an interview with Dara, the CEO of Uber, about taking the Uber job[2:12]
• Dara initially refused the Uber CEO role, thinking the problems were too big and he was happy at Expedia
• He recalls a pivotal conversation with Daniel Ek who told him, "Since when is life about happiness? It's about impact."
• Dara concludes he had to "take a shot" despite knowing it would be uncomfortable, reframing the opportunity in terms of impact

Ek explains his philosophy: happiness as a trailing indicator of impact

Definition of happiness vs. impact[3:33]
• Ek says happiness can occur in small bursts with lots of variance, but true, sustained happiness comes from impact
• He emphasizes that impact is deeply personal and only you can define what it means for you
• He calls happiness a "trailing indicator" of impact rather than something to optimize directly
Using this framework with Dara[4:16]
• Ek observed Dara was not truly happy but content; he had solved issues at Expedia and downshifted into an "easy gear"
• Ek thought Uber was a special company and that Dara could have enormous impact there, including for cities and society
• He advised Dara that taking the Uber role could lead to much more happiness for Dara and others because of the impact

Is optimizing for impact something Ek was taught or self-created?

Ek on self-motivation and adversity[5:26]
• Ek says he "self-motivates" using impact to push himself to do hard things, describing himself as quite lazy by nature if left unchecked
• He notes his greatest joys have come from overcoming big adversities and solving problems no one else had figured out
• He often feels happiness when reflecting back on moments of impact rather than in the moment itself

Feeling like an outsider and building from first principles

Ek's upbringing and outsider identity

Childhood in Sweden and social isolation[6:36]
• Ek grew up in what he calls "the project" in Sweden and did not fit into any social group
• He says he has felt like an outsider his whole life, including among fellow entrepreneurs and in Silicon Valley as a non-American
Building from first principles as a necessity[7:32]
• Ek says he couldn't take lessons from his parents on how to structure a company or navigate his unique circumstances
• Differences between European and American company structures forced him to go back to first principles and find principled answers that worked for him
• He has had to self-motivate for most of his life and only in the last five years realized he might be a better coach than player

Coaching mindset and tailoring advice

Recognizing coach potential[7:50]
• Ek realized that his drive and intensity can be taught and that he can help others by reflecting back their own situation
• He stresses he is not projecting what others should do, but listening and mirroring back what he hears, as he did with Dara
Happiness trails impact as universal, but impact itself is individual[9:20]
• Ek repeats that happiness trailing impact is a universal truth, but what constitutes impact is unique to each person
• Impact might be innate creativity, helping other people, or being a great parent; he especially believes this framing suits entrepreneurial types like him

Early financial success, emptiness, and defining work as production not consumption

Ek after selling his first company at 22

Content but not happy[12:37]
• Ek says "content" is the right word for how he felt after selling at 22; he was not happy
• As a former computer geek who lacked success with women, he expected money and nightclub status to finally make him "the cool guy"
• Though he had fun for a while, he realized relationships built on status and money were hollow
Depression and stepping away to reflect[13:39]
• Ek describes that period as probably the most depressed he has been in his life
• He walked away for over a year, doing nothing, and deeply reflecting on life and what he wanted to do
• He had hit his "magic number" of $10 million at age 22, a target he set at 15 after reading "Rich Dad Poor Dad", expecting to reach it by 40 and then retire
• Because he no longer had to work for money and life centered on consumption, he felt no impact and no real friends in that phase

Loving building things from a very young age

Early entrepreneurial behavior without labels[16:19]
• Ek says from a very young age he knew he wanted to build things, even before he knew the word "company" or concepts like finance or VC
• He was building things and loved computers, confident he would make a living with them somehow

Belief before ability, self-perception, and comparative standards

Ek's belief about his own ability: different but improvable

Not "good" but "different"[17:36]
• When asked when he knew he was good, Ek replies he doesn't know that he's good, but he knows he is different
• He holds an "insane belief" that he can get good at something if he tries hard enough
Comparative set shifts over time[18:09]
• His comparison group evolved from school peers to people in Stockholm, then Europe, and now the most brilliant entrepreneurs of his time
• He does not believe he is as good as those top entrepreneurs, but believes he is slightly different and can make something really great by working very hard

Computers as a "bicycle of the mind" and choosing decade-long problems

Computers as leverage[18:53]
• Ek cites Steve Jobs's phrase that computers are the "bicycle of our mind" and says that's how he felt growing up
• He sees computers as a magic tool to solve problems and create things
Value of a company as sum of problems solved[19:18]
• Ek credits his co-founder Martin with saying "the value of a company is the sum of all problems solved"
• He views his toolbox as the computer and the world as full of problems; the key is which problems he is passionate enough to spend a decade solving

Long-term mission, refusal to sell, and focus vs multiple projects

Why Ek did not sell Spotify early despite offers

Mission over money in acquisition decisions[20:45]
• Ek considered acquisition offers, but not for money since he already had what he needed financially
• His criterion was whether selling would further Spotify's mission and whether the buyer cared about the mission as much as his team did
• He never found such a buyer, so they kept going, without initially realizing it could become a 20-year endeavor

Doing many projects vs. single-minded focus

Multiple companies before Spotify and current experimentation[22:29]
• Before Spotify, Ek had built four or five companies and worked on many things in parallel
• He has recently returned to doing multiple things simultaneously and says the jury is still out on whether that is good or bad
Belief in extreme focus to create greatness[23:31]
• Ek believes that obsessively focusing on one thing, to the point of ignoring much of the rest of the world, is what creates greatness
• He says that's how Spotify came to be: for at least the first 15 years he "literally couldn't care about anything else"

Founder archetypes, self-knowledge, and building a company natural to you

The myth of a single founder archetype

Ek's failed attempts to imitate famous founders[24:51]
• Ek tried to mimic Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, and Howard Schultz in how they managed companies and lived their lives
• He learned from them but felt disillusioned each time because their methods did not work for him
Danger of thinking "I'm not like them, so I can't do it"[27:50]
• Ek imagines young entrepreneurs reading about figures like Mark Zuckerberg or Jensen Huang and thinking, "that's not me, so I must not have it in me"
• He argues that a core challenge for founders is the same as for everyone: finding yourself

Self-knowledge improves entrepreneurship with age

Older founders do their best work because they know themselves[28:13]
• Senra observes that many great founders (Jobs, Walton, Estee Lauder, etc.) did their best work in their 40s or 50s
• He believes they were better because they knew themselves more deeply, which allowed them to build companies that were natural or authentic to them
Ek's current game: being the best version of himself[30:00]
• Ek says the game he's playing now is to be the best version of himself, which he believes will have even more impact than before
• He ties this to authenticity: a company that is most natural to him will be the most impactful

Trust, mirrors, and long-term relationships

Who tells Ek the truth and how he uses them as mirrors

Key truth-tellers in Ek's life[31:37]
• Ek names his mother, a friend Jack, his wife, and Gustav as people who will tell him the truth even when he doesn't want to hear it
• Many of these people have been in his life for about 20 years, and his mother has supported him his entire life
Value of a "normal" parent and non-business perspective[34:03]
• He describes his mom as "the most normal person" who is proud of his accomplishments mainly because he overcame obstacles that mattered to him, not because of impact or status
• When he brings business problems home, her lack of interest in business gives him a mirror that most of life does not revolve around tech or business

Trust as an economic and organizational force

Trust is hard to scale but critical[35:05]
• Ek calls trust one of the most under-talked-about things because it is hard to scale and often the reason organizations break down
• He notes bureaucracies and processes often substitute for trust; with 100% trust you would need far fewer processes and could move faster
Degrees of trust and its fragility[37:00]
• Ek contrasts how people talk about trust as binary with the reality that there are degrees: who you trust with your life vs your bank account, etc.
• He says trust builds slowly, interaction by interaction, but one bad interaction can destroy it or create doubt that erases previous trust
Choosing to be trusting because life is richer with others[39:47]
• Ek acknowledges he is trusting "to a certain degree" and connects this to his loving upbringing by his mother
• He believes life is more fun doing the journey with other people than in single-player mode, even though he values solitude too
• He says he has been burned when trust was broken, but such experiences are maybe 1-2% of cases compared to the positive outcomes

Learning from other founders and delegating product leadership

Shadowing Mark Zuckerberg to learn "large group" leadership

Motivation for shadowing other founders[44:58]
• Ek realized he had never really worked at a company and was learning on the job as Spotify grew
• He saw hires from other companies describing practices he didn't fully understand, such as Facebook's "large group" meeting
Observing Zuckerberg's large group meetings[46:46]
• Ek struggles in groups of 10 people and wondered how Mark Zuckerberg got value from weekly large group meetings of 20-25 people
• He asked to come and learn; Zuckerberg agreed, and Ek spent about a week sitting in almost all of his meetings, taking notes and even getting coffee if needed
• He also interviewed the executive team to internalize the culture and how practices like large group meetings worked in context

Why direct copying of other founders fails without authenticity

Spectrum between taste-driven and data-driven product decisions[49:59]
• Ek rejects the simplistic dichotomy between a purely data-driven Google-style approach and a purely taste-driven Apple-style approach
• He believes Apple under Jobs still sought feedback (e.g., testing ideas on journalists) even if decisions were ultimately taste-driven
Authenticity required to apply another founder's methods[53:38]
• Ek says you can copy specific techniques (like how Elon Musk does things), but if they are not innate to you, they won't have the same impact
• He underscores that methods must be true to your personality and context to work

Stepping back from running product at Spotify

Initial founder-led product and the shift[55:08]
• Ek agrees the founder running product is crucial in the 0-1 stage and that he and Rasmus designed the first Spotify UI largely based on his taste
• As the company scaled, he reached a point where he no longer had the same feedback loop on how users behaved, making sole founder taste insufficient
Gustav's candid feedback and Ek relinquishing product control[56:55]
• Ek describes running product review meetings while Gustav effectively ran product but felt undermined
• Gustav told Ek directly that his contributions in those meetings were "not really that good" and not as helpful as Ek thought
• Ek's first instinct was to be angry and think about firing Gustav, but he recognized this as an emotional reaction
• He agreed to step back from product reviews for three months, after which it was clear Gustav did a great job and the team was happier
Redefining his value-add around creators and later the intersection[1:00:15]
• After stepping back from product, Ek moved closer to understanding creators by spending more time with content and creators themselves
• He made it his mission to know creators' needs and businesses better than anyone else at the company, providing product feedback from that lens
• Later Alex took over some of that work, and Ek shifted again to focus on the intersection of creators, consumers, and a third stakeholder (business/partners)

Unreasonable ambition, "high-temperature" people, and creativity

Unreasonable man quote and resisting conformity

George Bernard Shaw's "unreasonable man"[1:07:00]
• Ek quotes Shaw: the reasonable man adapts to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself; therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man
• He says this resonates because it's tough not to conform, and money and comfort tempt you back into conformity and distraction
Sacrifices of unreasonable focus[1:08:14]
• Ek notes that keeping going and improving requires sacrificing birthdays, social commitments, and not showing up for many things
• Friends know that if he gets an idea or something he must pursue, he may leave a dinner mid-meal and not return

High-temperature people and tolerance for variance

LLMs as analogy for "temperature" in people[1:12:51]
• Ek uses large language models as an analogy: turning up "temperature" yields hallucinations but also more creative, novel ideas
• He says current LLMs are often safety-trained with low temperature, making them less creative but more stable
Corporations optimize for low variance, not brilliance[1:16:03]
• Ek has revised his view of big companies; he now thinks they are very good at doing what they already do and getting better at it
• Public markets and capitalism push large firms to minimize mistakes, waste, and variance, which also minimizes brilliance and radical ideas
Musicians and creatives as models for handling messy idea flow[1:18:03]
• As Ek stepped back from daily operations, he reconnected with music and studio environments
• He observes that musicians know how to throw out many ideas, including terrible ones, to find sparks of brilliance
Seeking people who deliver rare, brilliant insights even amid noise[1:20:37]
• Ek notes that with some of the best people he knows, most of an hours-long conversation might be unhelpful, but a few minutes can contain life-changing insights
• He prefers people who occasionally produce a uniquely brilliant idea over those who reliably produce only decent but never exceptional ideas
• He says most people dislike being around such "high-temperature" individuals, but he loves it and wants to spend more time with them

Energy management, not time management, and designing your own game

Critique of conventional productivity rules

No single right way to structure your day[1:25:29]
• Ek dismisses the idea that success requires waking at 4 a.m. or packing the day with 15-minute meetings
• He knows many successful people with very different sleep and schedule habits
Energy vs. time as the main constraint[1:26:57]
• Ek is more obsessed with managing energy than time, arguing that time without energy produces nothing
• He identifies what gives him energy (e.g., working out before conversations) and what drains it, and structures his day accordingly

Understanding personal rhythms and resisting imposed schedules

Conformity to others' schedules vs. excellence[1:28:45]
• Ek says big organizations push people into average schedules (like 8 a.m. meetings) that optimize for conformity, not excellence
• He urges figuring out your own productive times and designing around them, instead of fitting into generic expectations

Sleep, body signals, and re-learning self-awareness

Historical sleep patterns and environment[1:58:06]
• Ek mentions learning from his 10-year-old daughter that historically people may have slept in two segments and adjusted sleep length seasonally based on light
• He points out that Nordic people likely slept less in summer and more in winter before artificial light, suggesting sleep is context-dependent
Rebuilding sensitivity to hunger and satiety[1:59:53]
• Ek shares he gained about 40 pounds during intense negotiation periods and lost touch with his natural sense of hunger
• A big part of his weight loss involved relearning satiety cues, realizing he only feels full about 20 minutes after eating
• He uses portion sizing based on what he intellectually knows is enough, trusting that his body will register it later

Investing as temperament, concentration vs diversification, and quality through focus

Investing as a mirror of temperament rather than pure technique

Why Ek got interested in investing[2:03:09]
• Ek says his interest in investing began when he suddenly had more money than he knew what to do with and didn't want to hand it to a bank without understanding
• He found investing fascinating because it is more about learning your own temperament and choosing a game that suits you than about specific tactics

Concentration vs. diversification and doing fewer things better

Munger's critique of over-diversification[2:05:21]
• Ek references Charlie Munger's criticism of "diworsification" and notes that many truly great financial outcomes come from concentrated positions (one or a few assets)
Quality as focus and distillation[2:08:33]
• Ek quotes "Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort" and links quality to focus and doing fewer things better
• He notes people often seek "more"-more stuff, more projects-but finds that true quality comes from trimming and getting to the essence
• In communication, he associates quality with saying fewer, clearer things rather than adding complexity

Innovation as problem-solving, combining existing ideas, and the pursuit of impact

Innovation as recombination, not pure novelty

Misconception of innovation as entirely new[1:34:04]
• Ek says people wrongly think innovation means figuring out something entirely new, but historically we build on others' ideas
• He defines innovation as taking two or more existing things and putting them together in a new way
Role of technology curiosity and problem obsession[1:36:52]
• Ek says he likes technology for technology's sake-understanding how things work, from semiconductors to systems
• He also loves solving problems and sees the intersection of deep tech understanding and problem passion as the source of great ideas

Value of a company as sum of problems solved and impact as motivation

Problems as opportunities and value creators[1:40:51]
• Ek repeats his co-founder Martin's line: "the value of a company is the sum of all problems solved"
• He tells his team that hard problems are great because solving them creates a lot of value
Choosing big, meaningful problems with low odds but high payoff[1:42:04]
• Ek says he focuses more on interesting problems than on predefined solutions
• If he finds a problem where there's a 5-10% chance of solving it but success would be huge for humanity or society, he gets very excited

Spotify's origin and impact-happiness loop

Founding Spotify without needing money[1:53:48]
• Ek reiterates that he did not have to work for money when starting Spotify; he did it because he loved music and wanted consumers to get what they wanted while creators got paid
• He says even if all money were removed from the equation, he would still spend his waking time thinking about such problems because that is what gives him impact and happiness

Self-talk, honoring younger self, and desired epitaph

Negative self-talk and growing comfort with self

Ek as a lifelong searcher[2:01:05]
• Ek says he has always been a searcher, attending many different religious meetings (Hare Krishna centers, Jewish centers, mosques) as a teen to explore big questions like where we come from and the purpose of life
• He believes more people should be interested in such fundamental questions
Less harsh inner monologue over time[2:02:57]
• Ek says he is more comfortable with who he is now than 20 years ago, indicating his inner monologue is less harsh
• He acknowledges that as an introvert with different interests from his peers, he used to question himself more
• He has also worked hard on communication because he realized it's necessary to get people to see what he sees and join his efforts

Feeling different yet continuous with younger self

How Ek feels compared to his past self[2:06:10]
• Ek says he feels different in the way any 40-year-old is different from a 10-year-old, being a product of accumulated experiences like travel to ~130 countries and friendships worldwide
• At the same time, traits like drive, long-term orientation, obsession, and seeking win-win outcomes have always been there
Owing something to his younger self[2:08:19]
• Ek is amazed at how young Daniel sacrificed weekends and summers to work and learn, and feels he owes that younger self to keep pushing instead of downshifting into comfort

Epitaph: "He lived"

Choosing one word for his tombstone[2:08:57]
• Asked what single word he would want on his future tombstone, Ek answers "lived"
• He frames this as a self-reflective choice rather than worrying about how others see him

Closing remarks and mutual appreciation

Mutual admiration and role of the conversation

Senra on Ek's lack of self-imposed ceilings[2:09:24]
• Senra says Ek seems to have no self-imposed ceiling on what he can learn or achieve, and that spending time with him transfers some of that belief to others
Ek on being first guest[2:09:51]
• Ek says it's a huge honor to be Senra's first guest in this new series
Senra plugs his other show[2:10:11]
• Senra reminds listeners to subscribe and mentions his other podcast "Founders" where he has read over 400 biographies of entrepreneurs

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Sustained happiness is a trailing indicator of meaningful impact, so orient your life around creating impact rather than chasing comfort or short-term pleasure.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What does "impact" mean to me personally, independent of how others define success or happiness?
  • • In which areas of my life am I optimizing for comfort or contentment instead of long-term impact?
  • • What is one concrete project or problem I could commit to for the next few years that, if solved, would create meaningful impact for others and likely make me prouder in hindsight?
2

Entrepreneurial effectiveness depends on building a company that is natural to your own archetype and temperament, rather than copying the style of famous founders.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How would I honestly describe my own working style and temperament if I stopped comparing myself to my heroes?
  • • Where am I imitating someone else's approach that feels forced or inauthentic, and how is that hurting my decisions or culture?
  • • What is one structural or cultural change I could make in my work this month that would better align how I operate with who I actually am?
3

High trust, candid relationships act as mirrors that prevent self-delusion and enable growth, but they require long-term consistency and a willingness to hear uncomfortable truths.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in my life consistently tells me the truth, even when it's hard to hear, and how often do I seek out their perspective?
  • • In what situations do I react defensively to feedback instead of pausing, sitting with it, and testing whether it might be right?
  • • What is one relationship I could intentionally deepen over the next year by being more reliable, honest, and open to criticism?
4

Managing your energy-what gives and drains it, and when you are naturally most effective-is more powerful than blindly following generic time-management or productivity rules.

Reflection Questions:

  • • During which hours of the day do I reliably feel most focused and creative, and how could I protect that time for my highest-leverage work?
  • • What recurring commitments or habits consistently leave me feeling drained, and how might I reduce, delegate, or redesign them?
  • • What is one energizing practice (sleep, exercise, solitude, or otherwise) I can deliberately prioritize for the next two weeks to see how it changes my output?
5

Quality emerges from focus, simplification, and relentless iteration toward an ideal you may never fully reach, rather than from doing more and adding complexity.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my work am I spreading myself thin across too many projects instead of going deep enough on the most important one?
  • • How could I simplify a current initiative-its goals, design, or communication-so that the essence is clearer and easier to improve?
  • • What is one product, process, or skill I'm willing to commit to improving a tiny bit every week for the next year, treating it like a long-term craft?
6

Innovation rarely comes from pure novelty; it comes from deeply understanding existing tools and problems, then recombining known ideas in new ways to solve meaningful problems.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What important problems do I keep noticing in my industry or daily life that I can't stop thinking about?
  • • Which existing tools, technologies, or concepts do I understand well enough that I could plausibly combine them to address one of those problems?
  • • What small, low-risk experiment could I run in the next 30 days to test a new combination of existing ideas against a real problem?
7

Growth often requires repeatedly redefining your role-letting go of areas where others can surpass you and moving to where your unique perspective adds the most value.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which responsibilities am I still holding onto out of ego or habit, even though someone on my team might be better suited to own them?
  • • How could stepping back from one specific area open space for me to focus on a higher-leverage contribution that only I can make?
  • • What is one concrete experiment I could try over the next quarter to delegate or redesign a part of my role and then evaluate the results honestly?
8

Honoring your younger, driven self means continuing to push and "live" fully instead of downshifting into easy comfort once external success arrives.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If my younger self could see my life today, which choices would they be proud of and which would they see as settling?
  • • Where have I unconsciously shifted into an "easy gear"-choosing comfort over the hard challenges that would stretch me?
  • • What is one bold, slightly uncomfortable commitment I can make this year that would make me feel, in hindsight, that I truly lived rather than coasted?

Episode Summary - Notes by Devon

DAVID SENRA: Daniel Ek, Spotify
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