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We Study Billionaires - The Investor’s Podcast Network

TIP765: What the World's Great Philosophers Can Still Teach Us About Wealth and Wisdom w/ Kyle Grieve

Published November 2, 2025
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About This Episode

Host Kyle Grieve explores how ideas from major philosophers can improve investing decisions, emotional control, and definitions of success. Drawing on Ethan Everett's book 'The Investment Philosophers', he connects thinkers like Spinoza, Nietzsche, Hume, Voltaire, Pascal, William James, Baudrillard, Schopenhauer, Montaigne, Kierkegaard, Camus, Martin Buber, and Bruce Lee to practical investing mindsets and behaviors. The episode blends philosophical concepts with real investing examples from Kyle and well-known investors such as Warren Buffett, Howard Marks, George Soros, and David Einhorn.

Topics Covered

Investing Stoicism Personal Development Risk and uncertainty Behavioral economics Morality and ethics Critical thinking Wealth inequality Capital allocation Stoicism

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Spinoza's ideas about striving, narratives, and emotional self-knowledge help investors focus on intrinsic value and manage harmful emotions.
  • Nietzsche's concept of the inner scorecard and critique of reward-punishment ethics aligns with Warren Buffett's focus on reputation and process over outcomes.
  • David Hume's distinction between healthy and excessive skepticism clarifies how to be contrarian without becoming paralyzed or chronically negative.
  • Voltaire and Pascal highlight how institutions, social conditioning, and luck shape market outcomes and personal fortunes far more than pure skill.
  • William James, Baudrillard, and Soros show how abstractions, models, and simulations can both clarify and distort reality in markets.
  • Schopenhauer, Montaigne, and Kierkegaard emphasize the gap between our abstract self-image and concrete life, especially around money, vocation, and happiness.
  • Poker lessons from David Einhorn illustrate how to separate short-term luck from long-term edge and avoid going on tilt after losses.
  • Camus' absurdism warns against reading false meaning into stock charts or limited experience, such as overgeneralizing from a few trades or one country.
  • Martin Buber's I-Thou vs I-It framework explains why how companies treat shareholders and partners affects both ethics and long-term business resilience.
  • Bruce Lee's 'be water' and 'absorb what is useful' philosophies provide a template for building a flexible, personalized investing strategy.

Podcast Notes

Framing the episode: philosophy as a tool for better investing

Investing is more than numbers and models

Investing depends on how we think, decide under uncertainty, manage emotions, and define success[0:13]
Kyle positions philosophy as a way to sharpen thinking and calm emotions in markets[1:26]

Philosophers previewed in the episode

Spinoza encourages viewing things in the aspect of eternity, helping investors zoom out beyond daily price moves[0:30]
Nietzsche emphasizes integrity and doing what is right even when unpopular, echoed by Warren Buffett[0:35]
David Hume's healthy skepticism counters herd mentality and emotional investing[0:45]
Blaise Pascal highlights the role of luck and the need for humility in finance[0:50]
Voltaire's critique of blind optimism relates to efficient market hypothesis[1:00]
William James' pragmatism helps separate useful from merely theoretical concepts[1:05]
Modern ideas like simulations, market narratives, and Bruce Lee's 'be water' mindset are tied into adapting to changing markets[1:17]

Introduction of the episode focus and book 'The Investment Philosophers'

Episode theme and book being examined

Kyle explains that philosophy is not heavily discussed in most investing circles[2:26]
He centers the episode around the book 'The Investment Philosophers' by Ethan Everett[2:37]
Kyle praises Everett for showing many lessons that philosophy offers to help think about investing in more beneficial ways[2:43]

Spinoza, Benjamin Graham, narratives, intrinsic value, and canatus

Benjamin Graham's use of philosophy and Spinoza

Graham was one of the earliest investors to actively discuss philosophy in investing lectures[2:50]
According to his students, Graham opened courses saying that to make money on Wall Street you must have the proper psychological attitude[3:00]
• Graham quoted Spinoza: one must look at things in the aspect of eternity
Graham had a strong background in philosophy before investing, so it was natural for him to draw on it[3:12]

Spinoza on narratives and Mr. Market

Spinoza believed traditional stories made it easier for laypeople to relate to moral teachings, especially in religion[3:25]
• He recognized the power of narratives as early as the 17th century
Modern studies back Spinoza: storytelling activates rational and emotional pathways, engages memory, and fosters empathy, making lessons stickier[3:45]
Spinoza saw that stories are a good introduction but surface level; deeper understanding requires digging beyond the narrative[3:55]
Everett believes Graham created the Mr. Market analogy to help students grasp the underlying principles guiding markets beyond surface stories[4:20]

Spinoza, eternity, and intrinsic value

Market sentiment is impermanent and changes nearly daily[4:29]
To transcend this impermanence and understand markets deeply, investors must focus on intrinsic value[4:34]
Graham's key gift to investing: separating what an asset is worth from the market's opinion of it[4:43]

Historical context: Dutch East India Company and Spinoza's teacher

Kyle notes that people might guess a modern mega-cap like Nvidia as the most valuable company ever[5:04]
He states that as of September 8, 2025, Nvidia was valued around $4.2 trillion, but this is not the historical record holder[5:04]
The Dutch East India Company at its 1637 peak had an inflation-adjusted market value of about $7.5 trillion[5:17]
Rabbi Menasseh greatly respected the Dutch East India Company and likely gained substantial wealth from its shares[5:32]
Rabbi Menasseh later became Baruch Spinoza's teacher, linking massive commercial success to Spinoza's intellectual environment[5:38]

Spinoza's concept of canatus and corporate alignment

Spinoza used the term 'canatus', derived from Latin for striving, to describe a core principle[5:46]
He wrote that each thing endeavors to persist in its own being[5:55]
Kyle notes that canatus drives everything, especially markets and business leaders[5:59]
Businesses embody canatus by striving to remain in business and continue providing attractive returns to owners[6:09]
Once a business is no longer appealing, its asset value erodes and may become worthless[6:16]
A company's driving force is its striving to maintain competitive advantages and positioning against capitalist forces[6:25]
Spinoza outlined two types of striving: that of the whole of nature and that of individual things preserving their existence[6:39]
These two forms of striving can easily be misaligned within a business[6:44]
• Example: lower-level employees want good jobs and pay, shareholders want good returns, and CEOs may prioritize personal reputation and empire-building
• A CEO focused on empire-building can harm both employees and shareholders
This misalignment underscores why finding management well aligned with shareholders is vital[7:25]
Kyle cites Constellation Software, Topicus, and Lumine as examples where employees receive shares that vest over 3-5 years, creating alignment[7:33]
• When all three parties (employees, management, shareholders) are aligned, canatus can benefit the whole and its parts mutually

Spinoza on emotions and investor self-mastery

Bad ideas can corrupt canatus, and these often stem from irrational emotions[8:08]
Spinoza described 'bondage' as man's lack of power to control emotions, leaving him subject to fortune and often pursuing worse courses despite seeing better ones[8:12]
Kyle observes that while everyone is emotional, the best investors observe themselves and exert some control over emotions[8:31]
Spinoza's remedy is to understand emotions clearly so they become known and more controllable, avoiding becoming passive emotions that dominate behavior[8:40]

Kyle's personal example: emotional journey with a cannabis investment

Kyle owned a business called Simply Sovereignless Concentrates, which he ultimately sold in full[8:55]
Initially, he was impressed with management and their consolidation strategy in the fragmented Canadian cannabis industry[9:05]
His emotions shifted when a planned acquisition fell through, spooking the market, and when a significant accounting adjustment hurt financials[9:18]
In his journal he noted being happily surprised by a price drop as a chance to buy more, but also worried it might be a mistake[9:27]
Three weeks later, after learning about major accounting changes due to auditors, he angrily wrote that he had failed to understand revenue recognition and sold all shares[9:41]
Kyle reflects that emotions both harmed him (adding on uncertainty) and helped him (selling a business he did not fully understand)[9:48]
He believes a better grasp of his emotions at the first sign of material adverse conditions might have stopped him from adding and reduced his loss[10:08]

Nietzsche, Buffett, morality, reputation, and speculative manias

Nietzsche's eternal recurrence and Buffett's inner scorecard

Nietzsche's thought experiment of eternal recurrence asks people to imagine living their life over and over identically, prompting reflection on living an extraordinary life[10:43]
Kyle links this to Buffett's inner scorecard, where Buffett focuses on doing what feels right internally rather than what merely looks right externally[11:36]
Nietzsche critiqued religious reward-punishment systems (heaven/hell) because actions motivated solely by self-interest are not truly moral[11:56]
This underpins why Buffett refuses to justify actions merely because they are legal or common practice[12:34]

Buffett at Salomon Brothers and the primacy of reputation

When Buffett became interim chairman of Salomon Brothers, he aimed to improve its poor image[12:50]
He told employees he would be understanding if they lost money for the firm but ruthless if they lost a shred of its reputation[13:05]
Buffett believed some revenue-generating tactics were in gray areas and wanted to prevent reputational harm regardless of legality[13:11]
In Berkshire's 2010 letter, Buffett urged measuring actions not only by legality but by whether one would be comfortable seeing them on a national newspaper front page written by an unfriendly yet intelligent reporter[13:39]
• He warned that 'everybody else is doing it' is a bad justification, especially in moral decisions
• He advised that if an action causes hesitation about propriety or legality, it is probably too close to the line and should be abandoned
• Buffett said there is plenty of money to be made in the center of the court, away from the line

Nietzsche and Buffett on measuring success and speculation

Neither Nietzsche nor Buffett think success should be measured by wealth alone[14:39]
Buffett says if you reach your 90s and nobody thinks well of you, your life is a disaster regardless of your bank account[14:44]
Nietzsche criticized the folly of nations fixated on producing and becoming as rich as possible, arguing that inner value is thrown away in pursuit of external goals[15:06]
Nietzsche lived through a speculative boom and bust in Germany, with Berlin Stock Exchange listings surging from 72 to 441 companies (about 25% of GDP) before dropping to 387[15:17]
He observed rampant speculation and called many actions legalized fraud and speculation[15:52]
Buffett has similarly criticized speculative behavior, agreeing in spirit with Nietzsche[14:39]
Kyle notes that media glorifies overnight millionaires while ignoring the risk taken, and both Nietzsche and Buffett insist on judging whether value creation methods are right, not just outcomes[16:07]

David Hume and skepticism in investing

Healthy vs excessive skepticism

Hume distinguished healthy skepticism from excessive skepticism[16:50]
Healthy skepticism, if present, will self-correct excessive skepticism over time[17:03]
Excessive skepticism, described as blind argument, never reaches helpful conclusions and cannot produce durable good[17:15]
Hume argued that a thoroughgoing skeptic has no clear purpose or societal benefit, and life would perish if such principles universally prevailed[17:51]
The key is balancing skepticism with common sense and reflection so it remains practical[17:27]

Applying skepticism to investing and consensus

Kyle notes that a stock will rise when market perception eventually aligns with his hypothesis, but timing varies[16:25]
He asks whether investors should try to persuade the market or instead focus on their own analysis[18:21]
Hume wrote to Adam Smith about relying on a few capable people to examine his work, which Kyle likens to sharing ideas with high-quality peers in the TIP Mastermind community[18:45]
• The emphasis is on filtering ideas through people with deep understanding rather than chasing broad consensus
Hume saw consensus as a feedback mechanism to be extra skeptical of one's assertions, similar to value investors eager to sell when price and value converge[18:04]
Kyle warns that chasing consensus breeds emotional comfort, lowers guard, and can lead to costly mistakes[19:09]
Buffett is quoted as saying that public opinion polls are no substitute for thought and that comfort does not come from agreement by important or numerous people[18:21]
Buffett feels most comfortable when a situation is understandable, facts are clear, and the course of action is obvious, regardless of whether it is conventional[18:39]
Michael Steinhardt said being contrarian is easy; the challenge is being a contrarian who is also right[19:40]
Excessive skepticism can make investors cling to wrong contrarian views, which is a 'death sentence' in investing[18:21]
Howard Marks advises skeptics to take opposite positions at extremes: selling and hoarding cash during euphoria, and buying aggressively during fear[18:31]
Healthy skepticism means judging where price and value have disconnected rather than simply reacting with the crowd[19:30]

Voltaire, efficient markets, institutions, and social conditioning

Voltaire, confirmation bias, and efficient market hypothesis

Voltaire's tale 'Candide' centers on humans' inability to change beliefs despite overwhelming contradictory evidence[19:45]
Everett connects this to adherents of efficient market hypothesis (EMH), who claim no one can beat the index so no work beyond indexing is needed[20:40]
Kyle notes EMH offers comforting assurance to index investors[19:30]
He argues it is dishonest to claim no investors can beat the index; those who say this either do not want to put in the work or cannot have an edge[20:40]
Some funds effectively become indexes as they scale and diversify too broadly, losing differentiating factors necessary for outperformance[20:01]

Voltaire on institutions and the stock market

Everett writes that Voltaire rejected the idea that divine providence ensures everything happens for the best[20:54]
Instead, Voltaire believed modern outcomes are shaped by human-built institutions and the traits of people within them[22:00]
He saw the stock market as a powerful symbol of both greed and positive societal functions[21:15]
Kyle lists positives of stock exchanges: access to growth capital, more jobs, higher tax revenues, connecting diverse people, and enabling average individuals to share in business upside[21:15]

Voltaire, socialization, and investor behavior

Voltaire wrote that conscience is shaped by the spirit of the age, example, disposition, and reflection[21:45]
He argued humans are born without principles but with the capacity to receive them, and natural disposition can incline to cruelty or kindness[21:56]
Kyle relates this to why some investors gamble with leverage and trading, while others distrust or trust institutions based on upbringing[22:27]
Recognizing different conditioning helps explain seemingly nonsensical investing behavior and encourages introspection about one's own errors[22:21]

Blaise Pascal, luck, humility, and the fragility of wealth

Pascal's family bond wager and government default

Pascal and Fermat laid groundwork for understanding how luck influences daily life and investment outcomes[21:50]
Pascal's father Etienne placed a lucrative wager on French government bonds in 1634, giving the family a luxurious lifestyle from the income[22:05]
Four years later, the French government defaulted on the bonds to fund the Thirty Years' War, wiping out their value and fortune[23:04]
This showed young Blaise that even bonds are not truly risk-free and fortunes can change in an instant[22:15]

Pascal's parable of the shipwrecked sailor-king

Pascal described a poor sailor whose ship falls apart; he wakes on a foreign shore and is treated like a king because he resembles the missing monarch[23:46]
He realizes over time that his kingship is purely a product of chance: appearance, time, and place, none under his control[24:04]
The story illustrates that status and fortune often result from random events rather than pure merit[22:52]
Pascal's insight is that both wealth and lack of wealth are partly due to luck, not just skill[25:00]
Kyle links this to Buffett's notion of winning the 'ovarian lottery' by being born in America when he was[24:15]

Humility about luck in investing and Kyle's career path

Pascal's lesson for investors is to infuse humility by accepting that success is a mix of luck and skill[25:23]
Investors should avoid getting too high on successes or too low on failures given luck's role[25:23]
Kyle recounts his own path: discovering crypto, failing at it, rediscovering investing during COVID, finding value investing instead of leverage, and developing a love for learning and writing[25:38]
He notes being lucky that his co-host Clay read his writing, invited him into a TIP community, and that Stig listened and thought he was a fit[24:09]
He wonders if his track record is pure luck but concludes reality is somewhere between luck and skill, which he accepts[25:14]

William James, abstractions, value labels, and simulations

William James on pragmatism and vicious abstractionism

Kyle feels drawn to pragmatism because many abstract ideas like EMH and CAPM have little real-world use for practicing investors[26:54]
William James coined 'vicious abstractionism' to describe misusing concepts by stripping away the richness of phenomena and reducing them to labels[25:58]
James warned that overreliance on abstractions can arrest thought, mutilate reality, and manufacture impossibilities instead of aiding understanding[26:34]
Abstractions are tools and shortcuts, not the whole picture; treating them as complete reality distorts understanding[27:08]

Example of vicious abstractionism: value stock label

Kyle describes a 'value investor' who finds a stock at P/E 5, labels it as value, and deems it decent because it is cheap[27:03]
Zooming out may reveal declining industry, poor management, weak competitive position, no moat, disruption risk, and bad capital allocation[27:13]
The 'value' label hides these risks and oversimplifies the investment, exemplifying vicious abstractionism[27:22]
Kyle believes simplicity is crucial in investing, but oversimplification is dangerous[27:27]

Simulations, Baudrillard, and simulacra in markets

Simulations are abstractions but essential tools for evaluating how different narratives and outcomes might play out for a business[27:32]
Everett uses French philosopher Jean Baudrillard to explain simulation as representation of real-world processes via various modalities[27:22]
Baudrillard argued signs and symbols can break free from their referents and interact in their own realm[27:13]
He called these independent signs 'simulacra' and described three orders[28:22]
• First-order simulacra: clear counterfeits that reflect an underlying object
• Second-order simulacra: representations that blur boundaries between sign and reality
• Third-order simulacra: representations that become entirely independent from underlying reality
Everett's first-order example: tracking stocks whose value mirrors a division's performance but do not confer direct ownership of that division[28:32]
Second-order example: common stock, where fundamentals and prices blur; a business growing profits 15% annually faces stock swings of about 50% peak to trough[28:13]
Third-order example: meme stocks like GameStop, where prices detach from fundamentals and take on a life of their own, driven by short squeezes and narratives[28:32]
Baudrillard emphasized that such signs can trade among themselves in a virtual realm independent of underlying businesses[28:54]
He contrasted 1929, where stock market collapse tracked real economic collapse, with 1987's Black Monday, where a 22.6% drop had no clear fundamental catalyst[30:00]

George Soros and reflexivity in relation to simulacra

Everett links Baudrillard to George Soros' concept of reflexivity[29:51]
Reflexivity holds that stock prices are not passive reflections but active ingredients that influence both perceptions and company fortunes[29:49]
If a company's stock trades below intrinsic value, issuing equity to raise capital harms value; if it trades above intrinsic value, equity issuance can be highly accretive[31:01]
Companies have limited control over market perception; sometimes being labeled an 'AI stock' raises prices and lowers cost of capital regardless of fundamentals[30:31]

Schopenhauer, dual life, gambling identity, and learning from poker

Schopenhauer on abstract vs concrete life

Schopenhauer observed that we spend much time in our heads idealizing our lives, but reality presents many obstacles[30:00]
Kyle summarizes Schopenhauer's key idea as humans living a dual life: one in concrete reality and one in abstraction[31:08]

Investor identity as gambler and David Einhorn's poker lessons

Some investors adopt 'gambler' as an abstract identity, which may have negative connotations[31:08]
Kyle notes several good investors have histories with gambling that they say enriched rather than harmed their investing[31:43]
David Einhorn used poker to shape his investing approach: you do not play or win every hand, and you sometimes play marginal hands because you have an edge against opponents[31:40]
Einhorn follows general principles but is willing to go outside them when a clear edge appears, analogous to deviating from usual criteria for a great opportunity[31:47]
He understands that poker outcomes combine skill and luck; in the short term perfect play can still lose[31:43]
The long-term profits accrue to those with the most skill, but a large sample size is needed to reveal the edge[31:43]
Kyle recounts his own online poker experience: playing large numbers of hands quickly, compared to only about 20 hands per hour in live casino play[31:40]
• He estimates that a casino player would need about 10,000 hours to reach the same sample size he had online
From poker he draws the lesson that small samples are highly noisy and anything can happen, while large samples reveal whether you truly have an edge[32:36]
Einhorn transfers this to investing: stock picks will not always go his way; he avoids going on tilt and accepts losses as part of the game[31:58]

Self-reflection, relationships, Montaigne, wealth and happiness

Reflecting on strengths and weaknesses via investment review

Kyle suggests examining best and worst investments and recalling what you were thinking at the time to identify patterns[33:20]
The goal is to double down on strengths and avoid or improve on repeat mistakes[33:28]
He advises reflecting on whether identities you adopt help or hurt success in investing and life[33:36]

Trade-offs between investing success and personal life; Montaigne's anxiety about wealth

Kyle notes many top investors have rocky marriages or strained relationships with children, which affects their happiness[33:51]
He points out that it is nearly impossible to have a long successful investing record without becoming wealthy, but money cannot fix broken relationships[34:40]
Michel de Montaigne observed that wealth created more problems than it solved for him[34:17]
Montaigne felt more anxious about theft, trust, and fear of loss as his wealth grew, and believed owning money brought more troubles than earning it[34:17]
Some contemporaries saw self-focused thought as vain, but Montaigne distinguished between empty self-adulation and productive self-reflection[34:52]
Everett writes that healthy self-reflection can uncover false priorities and allow reorientation toward values that truly improve life[34:52]
Kyle mentions investors from William Green's 'Richer, Wiser, Happier' who invested in intangibles (character, relationships, wisdom) that cannot be taken away[35:22]
Montaigne believed true wealth lies in possessions that exist outside contingency; gains or losses in fortune cannot touch them[35:44]
Kyle says being genuinely content with what you have is a strong measure of happiness, even if it is very difficult to achieve[35:13]

Soren Kierkegaard, money, vocation, and paying to do what you love

Kierkegaard's early financial troubles and later attitude toward wealth

Kierkegaard received a cash allotment at university, overspent on luxuries, and went into debt, then begged his wealthy father for a bailout[35:43]
His father died less than a year later, leaving him a large inheritance[35:51]
Between his father's death and earning his theology master's degree, Kierkegaard seems to have shifted, becoming critical of society's fascination with money[35:48]
In 'Two Ages', he wrote that the ultimate object of desire is money, but it is token money, an empty abstraction[35:48]
He spent much of his life funding his own books and pamphlets against the church, many of which sold poorly, and died with little material wealth[35:37]

Would you pay to do what you do? Process vs money as motive

Kyle poses Kierkegaard-inspired question: would you pay to do what you do today?[36:41]
He guesses only 5-10% of people would answer yes, though his audience might be skewed[36:43]
Everett suggests many great investors are driven primarily by love of forming investment theories and watching them play out, not money alone[37:13]
He compares this to chess grandmasters, who master the game for love of chess itself and the opportunity to prove intellectual and strategic abilities[37:20]
Kyle reflects on his own passion for strategy-heavy games like Madden and Starcraft, which he played purely for love of the game, not money[38:03]
He connects that same love of strategy and high-level mental engagement to why he enjoys investing[37:58]
For him, the main prize in investing is the intellectual victory; money is a strong but secondary benefit[37:58]
Kierkegaard noted that in ancient Greece people had to pay to serve as magistrates; likewise, Kierkegaard effectively paid to be an author by funding his own works[38:03]
Kyle asks whether listeners would pay to keep investing their own money; he notes he has paid out of pocket for subscriptions, books, software, and time[38:13]
He acknowledges that being right is often equated with making money in the long run, but short-term results are murkier[38:31]
He challenges listeners to find a company with a decade of strong per-share growth, no debt, monopoly position, and long runway where the stock did not at least match EPS growth[38:43]

Langley vs Wright brothers and Seneca on time revealing truth

In 1900, Samuel Langley was widely expected to invent the first powered airplane due to his credentials, funding, and media attention[39:26]
Langley's aerodrome debuted in 1903, but both attempts nosedived into the Potomac River, and he quit after media mockery[39:54]
That same year, Orville and Wilbur Wright, self-taught bike mechanics without prestige or funding, achieved the first successful flight with little notice[39:26]
Their process was iterative, each failure bringing them closer to success; recognition lagged the achievement[39:18]
Kyle quotes Seneca: 'time reveals truth', applying it to investments where obvious winners become duds and vice versa[39:47]

Albert Camus, absurdism, pattern-seeking, and mislearning from experience

Camus' absurdism and stock chart patterns

Camus developed absurdism, emphasizing the randomness of life and the paradox of seeking meaning in a world that may lack inherent meaning[39:13]
Humans naturally search for meaning, but often the meanings they find are illusory[39:32]
Kyle compares this to seeing patterns in stock charts: looking at 'wiggles' and assuming lines will keep going up is finding meaning in meaningless patterns[40:27]
He notes that even fundamental investors can misidentify patterns in what led to success or failure[40:53]

Kyle's blanket rule against Chinese equities and potential misattribution

In a TIP Mastermind discussion, a member pointed out Kyle's rule against buying Chinese equities and suggested it might stem from past losses there[40:48]
The member suggested Kyle might be resulting, confusing bad outcomes with analytical mistakes, and drawing an irrational conclusion[40:57]
Kyle notes humorously that stocks he sold in China have risen since, but he has not followed their fundamentals closely[41:26]
His Chinese basket (Alibaba, Tencent, Qfin) has improved somewhat fundamentally, so his negative view may be more about timing than analysis[41:26]
Camus' lesson is to draw lessons only from information that genuinely provides meaning and to skip the rest[41:36]

Martin Buber, relationship ethics, Langone vs Madoff, and shareholders as partners

Ken Langone's decision to reject Bernie Madoff

Kyle recounts Ken Langone being approached by Bernie Madoff with a 19-page pitch for an exclusive deal not offered to existing clients[41:46]
When Langone asked why clients were excluded, Madoff said the deal was not big enough for them and only offered it to him[42:00]
Langone's gut and experience told him that a good deal should go to existing loyal clients first, so he declined[42:05]
Two weeks later, Madoff's multi-billion-dollar Ponzi scheme was exposed[42:21]
The story shows that a deal's quality also depends on its effects on hidden parties, not just direct participants[42:43]

Buber's I-It vs I-Thou framework

Philosopher Martin Buber distinguished I-It relationships (others treated as objects) from I-Thou relationships (others treated as whole beings)[41:52]
I-It relationships are impersonal but not inherently immoral, e.g., analyzing a business solely via financial statements[43:02]
I-Thou relationships involve authentic engagement, presence, and respect for the other as a subject[43:11]
Buber argues that how we relate (I-It vs I-Thou) changes both how we treat others and who we become[43:22]
Kyle interprets Madoff as seeing Langone as I-It: an object, a source of cash who would never see it again[43:36]
Langone took an I-Thou stance, considering existing investors who should be prioritized[43:36]
Kyle connects this to Buffett's idea that companies get the shareholders they deserve[44:18]
If a company treats shareholders as ATMs, it will likely have a disloyal shareholder base[43:22]
If it treats shareholders as partners with honesty, transparency, and aligned incentives, they are more likely to stay through cycles[44:23]
A strong, loyal shareholder base brings tangible benefits like easier funding at good prices and more resilient share prices in downturns[45:01]

Bruce Lee's philosophy applied to investing

Bruce Lee's 'be water' and adaptability

Kyle admired Bruce Lee as a teenager for his films, physique, and philosophical interviews connecting martial arts and life[44:40]
He cites Bruce Lee's line about being formless and shapeless like water that takes the shape of its container[44:56]
This quote emphasizes flexibility and avoiding rigidity, which Kyle relates to jiu-jitsu and investing[45:12]
In jiu-jitsu, beginners rely on strength (rigidity), but good technique trump strength and reduces exhaustion[45:22]
In investing, rigid adherence to labels like 'value investor' in the Graham mold can blind you to opportunities in intangible-rich businesses[45:28]
Kyle admits past rigidity in rejecting technical analysis due to bad experiences trading crypto but now uses charts occasionally for bid placement[45:54]

Absorb what is useful and add what is uniquely your own

Bruce Lee advised to absorb what is useful, discard what is not, and add what is uniquely your own[46:07]
Kyle sees this as a clear description of learning: integrate what works, drop what does not, and personalize your approach[46:07]
He notes investors can customize many dimensions: asset classes, position sizing, holding periods, industries, market caps, quality thresholds, and more[45:34]
No two good investors are identical; each adds their own flair and preferences to their strategy[46:47]
Kyle cites learning from very different investors: Munger on concentration and thinking, Graham on margin of safety and Mr. Market, and Howard Marks on risk, despite not copying their exact styles[46:47]
He concludes that staying open-minded, as Bruce Lee counseled, lets you pick up valuable insights from unlikely sources and improve your wealth[47:12]

Conclusion and invitation for feedback

Kyle's closing remarks and contact information

Kyle ends by inviting listeners to follow him on Twitter at 'IrrationalMRKTS' or connect on LinkedIn by searching his name[47:42]
He welcomes feedback on how to make the podcast better for listeners[47:31]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Understand and manage your emotions consciously, or they will unconsciously manage your investing decisions and often push you toward worse choices even when you see better ones.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you added to or sold an investment primarily because of fear or excitement rather than analysis, and what did that feel like in the moment?
  • • How can you build a simple routine (journaling, checklists, cooling-off periods) to separate your emotional reactions from your actual investment decisions?
  • • What is one current position where you suspect emotions are influencing you, and what specific step will you take this week to reassess it more calmly?
2

Judge your investing process by an inner scorecard of integrity and clarity, not by legality, popularity, or short‑term profits alone.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your financial or professional life are you relying on 'everyone does it' or 'it's legal' instead of asking whether it aligns with your own values?
  • • How might your long-term reputation and self-respect change if you started evaluating every major decision by whether you'd be comfortable seeing it on a front page?
  • • What is one gray-area practice you could stop or tighten up this month to bring your investing or business behavior closer to your ideal inner standards?
3

Cultivate healthy skepticism: be willing to think independently from the crowd, but avoid drifting into reflexive contrarianism or paralyzing doubt.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In which recent decision did you follow the herd without much thought, and in which did you reject consensus just for the sake of being different?
  • • How could you design a small circle of trusted 'high-quality filters' whose feedback you seek before big bets, instead of chasing broad agreement?
  • • What current market view you hold deserves a fresh, skeptical review of both the underlying facts and your own motives for holding it?
4

Recognize the role of luck in your successes and failures so you can stay humble when things go well and resilient when they go poorly.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Looking back at your biggest financial win, what elements were truly under your control and what parts were mostly timing or circumstance?
  • • How would your risk-taking and position sizing change if you assumed that a meaningful portion of future outcomes will be driven by luck rather than skill?
  • • What is one way you can 'pay forward' the benefits of your good fortune, whether in mentoring, generosity, or more thoughtful risk management?
5

Use abstractions, models, and labels as tools-but never let them replace the messy, concrete reality of businesses, people, and incentives.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are you relying on a label like 'value stock', 'growth company', or 'safe asset' instead of digging into actual business quality and risk?
  • • How might your decision-making improve if you explicitly wrote down what each model or metric leaves out before you act on it?
  • • What is one investment or business situation you will re-examine this week by setting aside your usual category labels and looking at the full, detailed picture?
6

Design an investing approach that you would do for its own sake-one that matches your curiosities and temperament-so that the process itself is rewarding regardless of short‑term results.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If you knew you would never become rich from investing, what parts of research, analysis, or strategy-building would you still gladly do?
  • • How could you shift your daily or weekly investing habits to feel more like an engaging game or craft you are mastering instead of a constant scoreboard?
  • • What is one small change you can make this month to align your portfolio strategy more closely with what you naturally enjoy studying and thinking about?
7

Stay adaptable like 'water': absorb what is useful from many teachers, discard what does not fit you, and intentionally add elements that reflect your unique strengths.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which investing principles from others have genuinely worked for you, and which have you copied despite them not fitting your personality or constraints?
  • • How might your results change if you allowed yourself to modify a favorite guru's playbook instead of trying to follow it exactly?
  • • What is one personal strength (analytical, psychological, network-based, or experiential) you can consciously build into your investing framework starting this week?

Episode Summary - Notes by River

TIP765: What the World's Great Philosophers Can Still Teach Us About Wealth and Wisdom w/ Kyle Grieve
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