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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2406 - Russell Crowe

with Russell Crowe

Published November 5, 2025
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About This Episode

Joe Rogan talks with Russell Crowe about Crowe's new film "Nuremberg" and the psychological, historical, and moral questions raised by portraying Hermann Göring and the Nazi leadership at the post‑war trials. They range across topics including gambling and addiction, alcohol and social media use, war and political polarization, Crowe's intense recent work schedule and burnout, and his long‑term project restoring and rewilding his Australian farm. The conversation also examines invasive species and land management, media consolidation and propaganda, healthcare systems, and the need for nuance when understanding both historical figures and contemporary issues.

Topics Covered

War and empire Lottery and gambling Social media addiction Media trust and propaganda Relationships Travel and tourism Veterans mental health Invasive species Nazism and World War II Environmental restoration

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Quick Takeaways

  • Crowe's film "Nuremberg" focuses on Hermann Göring and the Nazi leadership, emphasizing that many perpetrators were apparently rational men, which makes their crimes more disturbing.
  • Both Rogan and Crowe worry about how slowly shifting norms, dehumanization, and political polarization can lead societies toward horrific outcomes without obvious "big jumps."
  • Crowe believes he has a strong genetic and psychological susceptibility to gambling, which he manages by largely abstaining, while still recognizing that many forms of life and career risk are gambles of a different sort.
  • They see modern phone‑based gambling, constant betting ads, and easy app access as dangerously normalizing gambling for young people who don't understand the risks.
  • Crowe describes burning himself out by making five films in rapid succession and emphasizes the importance of retreats to his remote Australian farm to reset his mind and body.
  • Both men argue that exposure to real war footage and historical atrocity, like Holocaust films from Nuremberg, is important to remind people what war actually means beyond rhetoric.
  • They discuss how invasive species introductions and poorly thought‑out ecological interventions (like cane toads and wild horses) can spiral into massive, nearly unfixable environmental problems.
  • Crowe is using regenerative and anti‑inflammatory medical treatments plus careful training to rebuild function in damaged joints, preferring these approaches over major joint‑replacement surgery.
  • They criticize the U.S. healthcare and pharmaceutical system for bankrupting citizens and saturating media with drug ads, contrasting it with Australia's system where people do not go bankrupt from medical bills.
  • Crowe argues that understanding the human, even charming, sides of monstrous historical figures is crucial if we want to recognize how ordinary people can participate in evil.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and discussion of Russell Crowe's new film "Nuremberg"

Opening greetings and film release timing

Crowe greets Rogan and thanks him for praising his movie[0:00]
Crowe states the film releases in the United States on November 7th with staggered releases elsewhere over about six weeks[0:22]

Holocaust and trial footage in the film

Rogan calls the movie "heavy" and asks if the trial and Holocaust footage (including plows) is real[0:35]
Crowe explains the Holocaust footage is real and some of it had not been seen since 1946; access to it was a key reason director Jamie decided to make the film[0:42]

How the director makes dry subject matter accessible

Crowe notes court cases can seem like a dry, unexciting topic from the outside[0:54]
He says the director disarms the audience by letting them be amused by interpersonal dynamics before "locking" them into the courtroom for the heavy material[1:15]
Crowe describes a humorous scene where a prison commandant berates two mental health experts for getting into a fistfight[1:23]
• He calls this approach a fascinating development device that charms the audience before confronting them with the grim reality of the trial and Holocaust films

Psychology of evil and incremental descent into atrocity

The psychiatrist's unpopular conclusion about Nazi leaders

Crowe says the film is also a psychological tape from psychiatrist Dr. Kelley's perspective[1:59]
He explains Kelley concluded that all human beings are capable of horrific acts, which was an unpopular view at the time[2:14]
Kelley's conclusion led to his removal from the process because the War Department wanted a narrative that Nazis were crazy and uniquely ruled by a madman[2:30]
Crowe notes that in interviewing 22 major Nazi figures, Kelley found most were rational men, which he calls the scary part[3:01]

Incrementalism, "boiling frog" and loss of rights

Rogan asks how rational men end up making such horrific decisions[3:08]
He and Crowe agree the process is gradual: it starts as "just a war" and incremental pushes lead to an unbelievably horrific place[3:18]
Crowe likens it to taking away people's rights and personal power bit by bit until the average person suddenly wonders how they got to the current point[3:48]
• He uses the boiling frog metaphor to describe how small changes are harder to detect than gigantic jumps

Dehumanization and binary political identities

Rogan calls dehumanization-turning others into something less than human-one of the most dangerous aspects of human beings[4:09]
Crowe sees this dehumanization everywhere, with people being forced into simplistic "red" or "blue" camps[4:45]
He argues humans are far more nuanced and can't realistically be split into two camps without destroying subtlety in discussion[4:55]
They agree this binary framing makes communication less and less available[5:03]

Two‑party systems and corporate influence

Rogan says the U.S. only has two major parties, both essentially financed by enormous corporations, and calls the whole system a ruse[5:12]
He describes how social issues get attached to each side and politics devolves into "you're with us or against us" with no good outcome[5:27]
Crowe notes Australia also has a two‑party system but says Australians grow up "looking out" at the world, whereas Americans grow up "looking in"[5:57]
• He contrasts international‑focused sports like rugby, cricket, and soccer with American‑only leagues like NFL and much of baseball

Cricket, rugby, and cultural differences in sport

Cricket vs baseball and global popularity

Crowe explains that representing one's country is the pinnacle in Australian sports like rugby union, rugby league, cricket, and soccer[6:42]
He observes that baseball fans love minutiae and statistics and says cricket fans are the same, making it odd that the fan bases rarely overlap[7:12]
Crowe explains a "six" in cricket is equivalent to a home run: hitting the ball over the fence without bouncing yields six runs[7:42]
He outlines formats: T20 (20 overs per side), one‑day matches, and five‑day Test matches where each side bats and bowls twice[10:08]
• He describes Test matches as the "gentleman's war" with complex ebbs and flows over five days that can completely change momentum
Crowe shares that two cousins, Martin and Jeffrey, captained New Zealand's cricket team; Martin was once called "the Michael Jordan of world cricket" by Sports Illustrated[10:03]

Rugby league, American football, and refereeing

Crowe distinguishes rugby union (15‑a‑side, frequent contests for the ball) from rugby league, which has more defined offense/defense phases and is easier for Americans to understand[12:53]
He reveals he co‑owns the South Sydney Rabbitohs in Australia's National Rugby League, founded in 1908[13:18]
Crowe notes rugby league's subjective refereeing frustrates American viewers, as similar hits can draw different penalties week to week[14:01]
He praises the NFL for appearing to strive for across‑the‑board fairness and consistent officiating decisions[14:27]
Crowe believes most NRL officiating issues stem from natural bias, as many refs grew up supporting particular clubs[15:58]
Rogan raises the possibility of corruption when large sums are gambled and referees have leeway, referencing a current American basketball and poker scandal[16:59]
• They mention allegations of player and coach gambling on player props and using inside information, though details are described as ongoing and not fully known

Gambling, addiction, and Crowe's personal experiences

Crowe's early Reno gambling scare and family history

Crowe recalls his first U.S. trip in the early 1990s when he drove to Reno with only a few hundred dollars and no credit card[20:36]
He won several hundred dollars at single‑deck $5 blackjack, then lost it all at roulette after having one beer too many, ending up with only $25 and a quarter tank of gas[20:44]
Realizing he might be stranded, he carefully returned to blackjack, slowly built his money back to about $190, then stopped so he could afford gas and food back to LA[21:36]
Afterward he shook uncontrollably in the hotel car park, called his mother collect in New Zealand, and learned his great‑grandfather had been a professional gambler who once gambled away the family house[21:55]
• Crowe says that single impulsive act kept the family poor for two generations and makes him feel gambling is "in him," requiring conscious avoidance

Genetics, inclination, and discipline around gambling

Rogan raises the idea that gambling tendencies might have genetic components or inherited inclinations beyond a blank‑slate upbringing[23:29]
Crowe says it feels like gambling is in him and he must work against it, and is grateful he had enough discipline in Reno to stop when he did[24:06]
He clarifies he largely avoids gambling now, though he may put a bit of money on Australia's Melbourne Cup horse race as a rare exception[23:33]
Crowe notes he takes plenty of other life gambles, like becoming an actor or buying a football team, but sees casino gambling as a system where the odds are inherently against the player long‑term[24:06]

Team blackjack strategy and Tom Cruise story

Crowe describes that with a disciplined group occupying all seats at a blackjack table, players can tilt odds slightly against the house, which casinos dislike[24:36]
He credits Tom Cruise with teaching him a team system: first and last seats make decisions, others follow strict rules like standing on 12 and above[26:17]
Crowe recounts a mid‑1990s trip where Steve Wynn flew him, Cruise, and Nicole Kidman to Vegas on a comped jet, comped them at Shadow Creek golf, a luxury lanai, food, and then they won over $25,000 playing blackjack as a team[25:46]
• He calls it a "perfect day": comped jet, comped golf, comped suite, comped food, table win, and finishing the New York Times crossword on the flight home

Degenerate gambling, "Uncut Gems," and pool‑hall culture

Rogan praises the film "Uncut Gems" as perhaps the best gambling movie ever, depicting Adam Sandler as a degenerate gambling junkie whose behavior causes intense viewer anxiety[27:42]
He says he spent years in pool halls in his 20s and 30s around addicted gamblers whose physical appearance and behavior made their addiction look like a hard drug problem[30:16]
Rogan has friends who wager millions on fights, which he finds terrifying regardless of their wealth because losses or wins both entrench problematic behavior[30:43]

Normalization of gambling and debate over freedom vs. regulation

Gambling ads, kids, and Crowe's talk with his sons

Crowe criticizes how normalized gambling has become in Australia, noting that national sports news routinely includes betting odds[33:41]
He recalls seeing his two sons and a friend checking bets on their phones and having a serious conversation that every dollar they have comes from his work and is not for gambling[3:11]
He warns them that small bets of $5 or $10 can easily escalate to hundreds or thousands and that they must see gambling for what it is, not harmless fun[35:32]

Rogan's stance: personal freedom with education

Rogan says he likes that gambling exists and, if he didn't work for the UFC, would enjoy betting modestly on fights as a knowledge‑based edge[36:24]
He insists he can handle gambling and has never had a problem, comparing it to how some manage alcohol or cigarettes while others can't[37:19]
Rogan argues for freedom of choice with robust education: explaining how thrills can take over a life, especially for those genetically or psychologically susceptible[38:22]
He likens banning gambling to banning fast cars because some people crash; he believes better understanding of risk and self‑management is the answer[39:32]

Odds, sports debates, and gambling as added "juice"

Rogan explains how odds around fights or games foster debates among fans about skills, size, tendencies, and style matchups[39:52]
He cites betting odds around the Canelo Alvarez vs. Terence Crawford boxing match and how Crawford being a slight underdog despite his skill made the discussion compelling[40:35]
They acknowledge that app‑based gambling stacks addiction on top of phone addiction, especially for kids rotating between social media apps and betting apps[5:12]

Social media algorithms, overwork, and Crowe's burnout

TikTok, algorithms, and dating app ads

Crowe admits he spends a lot of time scrolling TikTok and notes his feed shows many dating app ads even though he's not on any dating apps[43:03]
He suggests not everything in the algorithmic feed is purely organic interest; some things are pushed, like promoted dating apps[43:03]
Rogan and Crowe agree the algorithm shapes feeds so that nearly everything presented is something the user has some interest in, making it harder to pull away[43:31]

Crowe's intense work run: five movies in eight months

Crowe says that between December and August he made five movies and was on the set of a sixth, leaving him completely drained[43:59]
He feels like he "broke" his brain around August and hasn't been able to fully recover due to continuing responsibilities[44:16]
He looks forward to returning home to Australia for three months without a scheduled departure, where he can decompress in the bush and wake with the birds[44:43]
• Crowe views this unscheduled time at his rural property as essential to refilling what he emptied during his heavy work period

Highlander remake and Henry Cavill's injury delay

Crowe was preparing to play Ramirez (Sean Connery's role) in a remake of "Highlander" with Henry Cavill but felt empty and texted his agent about possibly withdrawing[47:26]
The same night, the director called to say Cavill had ruptured his Achilles and the film would be pushed, which secretly relieved Crowe because it allowed him to go home and recover[46:54]

Long connection with Henry Cavill

Crowe met Cavill as a schoolboy filming "Proof of Life" at Stowe School; he noticed Cavill's intelligence on the rugby field and gave him an autographed "Gladiator" photo with advice about journeys beginning with a single step[47:26]
Years later they met again in a gym near Chicago while making "Man of Steel"; Crowe realized this was the same Henry from the school[5:12]
Cavill insisted Crowe must play Ramirez in "Highlander," giving their collaboration a third stage that Crowe is excited about once production resumes[49:48]

Crowe's recent film projects, schedule clustering, and sleep issues

Independent film timing and stacked schedule

Crowe explains that many of his films are independent and take years to finance; he agreed to do "Nuremberg" in 2019 but it didn't shoot until 2024 and collapsed three times before that[50:38]
He says multiple projects he had agreed to years earlier all suddenly landed back‑to‑back like air‑traffic‑controlled planes, giving him only a few days between sets[50:59]
He likens each new set to starting at a new school, meeting hundreds of people and working out costume, makeup, and character details rapidly[52:26]

Overview of the five films shot in that run

He mentions "The Beast in Me," an MMA movie originally planned with the UFC but ultimately done with ONE Championship, set in Australia and Thailand; he rewrote it and expects his first writing credit[52:21]
Crowe describes "Bear Country," a comedic crime film where he plays an Albanian money launderer, with a strong ensemble cast and a director he also worked with on "Unhinged"[53:02]
He lists other projects: "Billion Dollar Spy" (playing a Russian scientist selling secrets), "Unabombe" (as a Harvard professor who ran experiments involving Ted Kaczynski), and a film shot in Germany but set in Portland with Ethan Hawke[54:03]
Crowe frames this cluster as a rich run for film fans, especially with a rare adult comedy in the mix, at a time when studios seem wary of comedies[56:01]

Sleep disruption and need for bush retreat

Crowe says that for about a month he has been unable to sleep between midnight and 5 a.m. regardless of time zone, which he connects to having "broken" his head with too much work[57:26]
He calls his bush property "the panacea," saying it can fix all ills if he submits to its rhythm: waking before the birds, going deep into the bush, checking cattle and water systems[58:00]
Crowe credits his 31-32‑year‑old self for using early earnings to buy 100 acres of bushland in 1996 instead of an apartment, giving him a long‑term "battery" and sanctuary[59:24]
• He says that beyond his farm gate he stops being "Russell Crowe" the brand and is just a son, brother, uncle, dad, and boss of the farm operation

War, remembrance, and the illusion of war as a solution

Growing up with Vietnam footage and expectation of soldiering

Crowe recalls watching Vietnam War coverage on nightly news as a child while surrounded by older relatives who had fought in WWI and WWII[1:02:06]
He says that as a boy of six to eight he and classmates believed they would become soldiers because Australia was again at war in Vietnam[1:02:41]
He participated in army cadets in high school, sometimes wearing jungle greens instead of school uniform and handling self‑loading rifles at age 13[1:03:21]

Suppressed images of war and purpose of Anzac Day

Rogan criticizes U.S. restrictions during the Iraq War on photographing flag‑draped coffins, arguing that citizens should see such images to understand the consequences[1:03:57]
Crowe explains Anzac Day (Australia and New Zealand's Memorial Day) commemorates soldiers but is also meant to remind people never to repeat such wars[1:04:58]
He calls WWI and WWII ultimately pointless slaughters where those who start and benefit from wars are rarely the ones mourning at gravesides[1:05:48]
Both men lament how casually modern rhetoric invokes attacking or invading other nations despite humanity's technological sophistication[1:07:17]

Social media, bots, and propaganda

Early optimism about Twitter and later manipulation

Crowe recalls joining Twitter around 2009-2010 and initially loving the ability to speak directly for himself after decades of being filtered through others[1:07:57]
He says that once individuals began using social media power to criticize companies or tell uncomfortable truths, interests moved to "shut that down" via manipulation[1:09:41]
Crowe argues that running bots to pervert people's understanding for self‑benefit should be a prison‑worthy offense[1:10:29]
Rogan notes it's possible to propagate complete lies via networks of bots and AI, inflaming debates with no accountability and often with untraceable origins[1:11:38]

Violent content and desensitization

Rogan observes that social platforms are flooded with real violence: fights, assaults, accidents, and falls, which he sees as highly desensitizing, especially for 13‑year‑olds[1:13:30]
Crowe admits he enjoys some slapstick "falling down a hole"‑type clips but not content where people are seriously hurt[1:14:32]
They emphasize that while adults can rationalize what they see, kids growing up with constant violent clips or gambling ads may come to see them as normal[1:14:50]

Alcohol, addiction, and regulated vs. stigmatized substances

Alcohol's social role and personal limits

Crowe calls alcohol part of his cultural heritage and working‑class right but says age has taught him that one night of fun a week is plenty[1:18:23]
He avoids casual "interstitial" drinking, preferring a glass of high‑quality wine on special occasions rather than routine consumption[1:19:50]
Rogan describes quitting drinking entirely for about seven months, then reintroducing occasional single drinks like a glass of wine or a margarita, but avoiding nights of heavy drinking[1:19:42]
Both note hangovers worsen with age and cost them energy, enthusiasm, and productive days, which they now value highly[1:21:26]

Education about drugs and alcohol for youth

Rogan argues that since many teenagers will experiment with alcohol and drugs, schools should provide practical education on how to use them in ways that avoid severe harm[1:21:44]
Crowe agrees that freedom of choice should be paramount but stresses the responsibility to educate from a young age rather than only after catastrophes like crashes[1:23:02]

Bill Hicks joke and contrasting alcohol vs. marijuana

Crowe cites Bill Hicks's routine asking if people fighting at parties or sporting events were stoned or drunk, implying alcohol more often drives violence[1:24:48]
He questions why marijuana is demonized while heavy drinking is socially accepted, given their different typical outcomes[1:26:04]

Thailand, UN drug policies, and U.S. pressure

Crowe says Thailand historically had centuries of cultural marijuana use but adopted harsh drug laws to join the United Nations under U.S.‑influenced frameworks[1:27:04]
He notes Thailand recently removed many of those restrictions and legalized cannabis, leading to an explosion of shops in Bangkok and some government panic over poor planning[1:27:30]
Crowe thinks cannabis suits Thailand's climate and culture, with its food, beaches, and sunshine[1:29:10]

History of hemp prohibition in the U.S.

Rogan summarizes the story of the decorticator machine making hemp economically viable, Popular Science touting hemp as a "billion‑dollar crop," and William Randolph Hearst fearing competition with his timber‑based paper business[1:30:10]
He describes Hearst newspapers pushing racist stories linking "marijuana" to crimes by Mexicans and blacks, leading to prohibition without most people realizing hemp and cannabis were being targeted[1:30:51]
They mention propaganda films like "Reefer Madness" and discuss Hearst as a powerful, manipulative media mogul who also helped derail Orson Welles's career after "Citizen Kane"[1:32:12]

Media consolidation, independent media, and TV vs. streaming

Power of media moguls and shrinking ownership

Crowe notes that whereas the U.S. once had two dozen major media companies, now about three corporations dominate, many cross‑owning each other[1:33:18]
Rogan argues that this consolidation is partially offset by independent media online, which can force mainstream outlets to cover inconvenient stories once they gain enough public traction[1:34:19]

Changing TV habits and prestige series

Crowe says hotel TV now offers 160 channels with nothing he wants to watch and notes the absurdity of scheduled start times in an on‑demand era[1:34:57]
Rogan recalls when shows like "The Sopranos" aired at set times and people organized their evenings around them, but says this model feels outdated compared to streaming[1:36:36]
Crowe admits he has only seen a few episodes of "The Sopranos" even though James Gandolfini was a friend and his son Tennyson is now a "Sopranos" expert[1:37:23]
They praise Gandolfini's performance as Tony Soprano, making a murderous mob boss lovable and relatable, and note Joey Diaz's stories about that era[1:38:29]

Jimmy Carr, vacations, and learning to rest

Crowe says British comic Jimmy Carr is brilliant both onstage and in conversation and has taught him the value of vacations[1:40:28]
He describes meeting Carr for holidays in places like Puglia and Marbella, where he could read a book from start to finish and have no agenda[1:41:18]
Crowe grew up without family vacations due to finances and his father's pub work, so he finds it eye‑opening to discover the benefits of travel purely for rest[1:42:27]

Invasive species, wildlife management, and ecological restoration

Ticks, foxes, and changing wildlife on Crowe's farm

Crowe recounts his girlfriend's Papillon dog getting a paralysis tick; they shaved the dog and removed multiple ticks, noting that one untreated paralysis tick can quickly kill a dog[1:44:09]
He describes how his farm once had platypus in creeks and many wombats, but now he sees as many foxes as wallabies, with foxes decimating native bush turkeys and making them extremely cautious[1:47:07]

Deer farms, chronic wasting disease, and feral deer

Crowe notes New Zealand introduced deer farming for meat, and escaped animals are now being seen trekking long distances into new regions, including near his property[1:47:53]
Rogan describes U.S. deer farms and chronic wasting disease, a prion disease that spreads via saliva and environmental contamination, forcing culls to protect herds[1:49:08]

Cane toads and repeated mistakes with introduced species

Crowe calls Australia's cane toad saga a classic example: toads were imported to control a sugar‑cane pest after tests feeding them dead insects, but live flying insects can't be caught by tongueless toads[1:51:14]
Instead of helping, cane toads became a dominant, poisonous invasive species spreading across vast areas; he mentions they can poison curious dogs[1:52:17]
They reference estimates of cane toad populations in the hundreds of millions and show concern that any proposed solution might introduce yet another problematic species[1:53:16]

Invasive plants: gorse, lantana, and kudzu

Crowe mentions New Zealand importing gorse for hedging, which became a dense, spiky invasive due to higher rainfall and sunshine, similar to lantana overrunning parts of his property[1:54:16]
Rogan brings up kudzu in the American South, a vine from Japan marketed as ornamental that now blankets trees and buildings, illustrating how quickly introductions can overwhelm landscapes[1:55:17]

Wolves, elk, and reintroduction controversies

Rogan discusses wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone, noting elk populations fell by about 75% from pre‑reintroduction levels but were previously overabundant, causing their own problems[1:57:30]
He criticizes Colorado's recent reintroduction of wolves transplanted from areas where they killed cattle, to new areas with cattle but no protective measures, calling it poorly thought out[1:58:39]
Crowe mentions research showing apex predators can rebalance ecosystems, but acknowledges each intervention needs careful consideration to avoid cascading issues[2:00:35]

Wild horses (Brumbies) and emotional vs. ecological priorities

Crowe describes wild horse overpopulation in Australia's Snowy Mountains, where Brumbies damage ecosystems across New South Wales and Victoria[2:04:20]
He notes Australians have a romantic cultural connection to Brumbies (e.g., "The Man from Snowy River"), making culling emotionally difficult[2:04:44]
Crowe argues that, painful as it is, wombats, platypus, quokkas, kangaroos, and wallabies are ultimately more important to protect than feral horses[2:05:51]

Rewilding project in the UK and PTSD recovery

Crowe talks about Merlin Hanbury‑Tenison, a friend who is restoring family land in the UK to temperate rainforest and excluding non‑native animals[2:06:55]
The project now serves as a PTSD recovery site for former soldiers, where time in nature and restored forest helps them regain balance[2:07:27]
Crowe recommends Merlin's book "Our Oak and Bones," praising how it weaves ecological restoration with personal family history and emotion[2:08:30]

Crowe's own long‑term reforestation plans

Crowe describes planting about 38,000 trees years ago as a carbon offset on 44 acres, which now host 25‑year‑old trees[2:10:55]
He is stripping out non‑native undergrowth there and plans to reintroduce native red cedar, white mahogany, and other species that were heavily logged before WWI[2:10:47]
His goal is to plant around 5,000 red cedars in that area within a few years, hoping they will eventually self‑seed across the valley, even though full results will arrive long after his death[2:12:38]
He views this as a multi‑generation project that he hopes will inspire his children to continue restoring more of the property's waterways and native bush[2:13:41]

Acting philosophy, portraying Hermann Göring, and Nazi drug use

Choosing roles and seeking new ground

Crowe says he doesn't covet specific types of roles; he chooses from what is sent to him and looks for "fresh ground"-characters he has not played before[2:15:25]
He took on Hermann Göring in "Nuremberg" because no one had previously offered it and he found the challenge and danger of that role compelling[2:16:38]

Five years preparing to play Göring

Crowe signed on in 2019 expecting to shoot that year, but the film collapsed three times, giving him about five years to research Göring[2:17:41]
He hunted for details that humanized Göring and made sense of his trajectory, which initially did not align with the caricature of a one‑dimensional villain[2:18:03]

Göring's background: mountain climber, war hero, and Hitler's ally

Crowe explains Göring was a poor academic student but excelled at military school because the content interested him[2:18:03]
In WWI, Göring moved from infantry to aviation, eventually leading the Red Baron's old squadron and finishing the war with 22 air‑to‑air kills-three times an ace-making him a national hero[2:20:04]
During the 1920s, Göring appeared on cigarette cards in Germany as a celebrated war figure before aligning with Hitler after hearing him speak in Munich[2:20:54]
Crowe portrays him as entering politics as a patriot seeking to revive Germany after Versailles, before moving into abhorrent beliefs and actions[2:22:06]

Mountain climbing as a window into Göring's character

Learning that Göring was a pre‑WWI mountain climber who completed first traverses in the Austrian Alps helped Crowe understand his mentality[2:24:03]
He notes early 20th‑century climbers had rudimentary gear and hemp ropes whose behavior changed when wet, implying intense physical and mental toughness[2:24:15]

Nazi drug use and Göring's addiction

Crowe cites Norman Ohler's book "Blitzed" about the Nazi drug regime, noting Göring was arrested with about 40,000 pills and had a habit of 40-50 a day[2:24:39]
He says Göring's photos show him "leaving the planet" from around 1942 onward, reflecting heavy drug use and a waning influence with Hitler as others like Goebbels and Himmler rose[2:26:22]
Rogan mentions extensive methamphetamine use among Nazi troops and tank crews, and Ohler's claim that Hitler was on opiates as well[2:27:23]
Crowe notes that Göring, responsible for ordering drugs for pilots and soldiers, may have intentionally kept distance from Hitler later in the war for personal safety and because of altered priorities[2:27:36]
He emphasizes that forced withdrawal in Allied custody nearly killed Göring, but also cleared his mind so that by the trial he was mentally sharp and intent on attacking the concept of international law[2:30:03]

Nuance, humanizing monsters, and the actor's process

Singing together to separate actors from their Nazi roles

Crowe saw that German and Hungarian actors playing Nazis felt weighed down, so he gathered them daily to learn and sing the Bavarian mountain song "Muss i denn" before walking into court scenes together[2:29:18]
He explains the song's melody appears in Elvis Presley's "Wooden Heart" and would have been familiar to Göring himself as a Bavarian climber[2:32:11]
• The ritual reminded them they were just actors playing roles and that the work would end, creating camaraderie to offset the darkness of the material

Why humanizing evil matters

Rogan notes many people resist showing any human side of monstrous figures, fearing it implies sympathy[2:32:48]
Crowe argues that refusing nuance is dangerous and stupid because it prevents understanding how ordinary people commit evil; one person can be a loving father and also make horrific decisions[2:33:01]
He says charm is one of evil's greatest weapons: the same charisma used to entertain and lead can also be used to dehumanize and strip rights[2:35:02]

The relentless nature of film work

Crowe rejects the idea that actors can simply "turn off" a role at wrap; like any passionate worker, he keeps processing lines and the character at home[2:36:10]
He compares film production to a train journey: once you board, you stay until the destination, with no pulling over; one day it always ends, whether it was a miserable or wonderful shoot[2:37:47]
Crowe recounts his sons' rule that when he goes on Rogan's show he shouldn't discuss politics, because once he starts he can't stop[2:38:47]
He says he vetted Rogan's content after his son became a listener and concluded Rogan allows nuance rather than forcing ideas into three‑minute soundbites[2:39:58]

Australian and U.S. politics, immigration, and healthcare

Australian prime minister, Joy Division shirt, and political point‑scoring

Crowe praises Australia's current prime minister as a hard‑working man genuinely trying to help everyone and fix inherited problems[2:41:13]
He describes the PM returning from successful foreign trade trips wearing a Joy Division T‑shirt off the plane, only to be attacked in parliament by the opposition for referencing a term linked to Nazi camp brothels[2:42:10]
Crowe ridicules this as pointless minutiae: everyone knows Joy Division is a band name, just as being a Rolling Stones fan doesn't mean wanting rocks to crush people[2:42:54]

Immigration problems and political incentives

Rogan says that in recent years the U.S. allowed many people in without adequate vetting and is now deporting productive citizens lacking proper paperwork, showing that both extremes are bad solutions[2:44:35]
He recounts Representative Luna telling him that some problems are intentionally never solved so politicians can keep campaigning on them[2:46:13]

Gambling regulation timidity and normalization

Crowe criticizes Australian leaders for timidity in tackling gambling ads; simple steps like restricting ad times or excluding odds from news would help but are blocked by powerful interests[2:47:42]
He points out that decision‑makers often experience gambling only from a privileged perspective, such as owning racehorses, which biases their view[2:48:16]

U.S. healthcare, pharmaceuticals, and bankruptcy

Crowe is disturbed that a drug costing about $50 a month in Australia can cost $2,500 a month in the U.S., reflecting a distorted medical system[2:49:27]
He cites figures that over 600,000 people in the U.S. will go bankrupt in the next year due to medical bills, whereas the number in Australia will be zero[2:50:49]
Rogan notes that pharmaceutical companies' heavy advertising also buys silence from media, which then rarely criticizes them[2:52:01]
Both men call it insane for the richest Western economy to punish citizens this way and argue that citizens' health should be a principal focus of elected representatives[2:54:38]

Obesity, cigarettes, and food systems

Crowe acknowledges smoking is harmful but says many lung‑cancer patients never smoked, suggesting unresolved health questions beyond cigarettes[2:55:38]
He argues obesity and its related illnesses are a bigger burden on healthcare, yet societies still permit food production systems known to be extremely unhealthy[2:55:38]
They reference ultra‑processed foods with little or no real nutrition and question why these remain ubiquitous while other substances are heavily regulated[2:56:22]

Regenerative medicine, training injuries, and learning to slow down

Using joint injections and IVs to manage arthritis

Crowe says recent joint injections and IV treatments have significantly calmed systemic inflammation from long‑standing injuries in his shoulders and knees[2:58:22]
He reports ultrasound evidence that thick arthritic bands in his shoulders have decreased by roughly 70% in one shoulder and about 90% in one area of the other[2:58:32]
A surgeon once proposed cutting muscle, popping out his humeral head, shaving bone, and capping it with carbon fiber followed by a year of rehab, which Crowe feels "sounds wrong" compared to less invasive biological approaches[2:58:37]

Katana training injury and lesson about pace

While training with a katana for the postponed "Highlander" role, Crowe tore a tendon near his ulna by suddenly going full speed on a swing in a car park[2:59:15]
He admits he knows the importance of going slowly and building skills but in a moment of trying to please people he rushed and injured himself[2:59:15]
Rogan shares the adage from firearms training, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast," and says that learning movements slowly in martial arts or sword work allows safer translation to high speed[3:00:42]
They agree that drilling technique slowly, focusing on balance and neural pathways, is more effective than muscling movements quickly and risking bad habits or injury[3:00:42]

Closing thoughts on the U.S., opportunity, and ongoing improvement

America's strengths and need to preserve fairness

Crowe calls the United States the greatest country in the world in terms of potential, founded on balance, fairness, and opportunity[3:02:24]
He warns that America remains great not by taking opportunities away but by continuing to afford them widely and urges listeners to remember nothing is finished; things can improve[3:03:35]

Sign‑off and endorsement of "Nuremberg"

Rogan thanks Crowe, praises "Nuremberg" as disturbing and important viewing, and encourages people to see it along with Crowe's upcoming films[3:04:06]
Crowe reiterates his need for vacation and recovery and they close by emphasizing that war is not a solution and that nuanced understanding of history is vital[3:05:16]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Evil and disastrous outcomes rarely arrive in one dramatic leap; they usually emerge from small, incremental shifts, dehumanization of others, and the gradual normalization of extreme ideas.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your own life or organization are small norm shifts happening that you've stopped noticing because they feel incremental rather than dramatic?
  • • How might you be unconsciously dehumanizing certain groups or individuals by turning them into a simplistic "other" instead of seeing their full humanity?
  • • What is one area this week where you could pause and question an incremental change before it becomes part of an unhealthy new normal?
2

Knowing your own susceptibilities-whether to gambling, substances, work, or technology-and building guardrails around them is more effective than assuming you are immune.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What patterns in your family history or personal experience suggest specific vulnerabilities you should take seriously instead of ignoring?
  • • How could you design simple rules or constraints (like dollar limits, time limits, or environments to avoid) that protect you from your own worst impulses?
  • • What is one concrete boundary you could put in place this month around an activity you suspect could become addictive for you?
3

Deliberate retreats into nature and unstructured time are not luxuries but necessary counterweights when your work and public identity demand sustained intensity.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you had multiple days in a row with no fixed agenda, away from your usual environment and identity labels?
  • • How might regular time in a quieter, more natural setting change the way you handle stress, decision‑making, and relationships?
  • • What specific place and timeframe could you commit to in the next three months as a genuine recharge period, even if it's modest?
4

Nuanced, uncomfortable understanding of how ordinary people commit extraordinary harms is essential if you want early warning signs and not just comforting villains.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which historical or contemporary figures do you currently see in purely black‑and‑white terms, and what might you learn by studying their fuller context?
  • • How could recognizing the human traits (ambition, loyalty, fear, charisma) in destructive people make you more alert to similar patterns around you now?
  • • What conversation, book, or film could you seek out this month that challenges a simplistic good‑vs‑evil narrative you currently hold?
5

Long‑term stewardship-of land, health, or craft-often requires starting projects whose full benefits you will never personally see, but that still meaningfully shape the future.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is one project you could begin that may not pay off for you directly but would significantly benefit others 10-50 years from now?
  • • How might thinking in decades instead of months change the way you approach decisions about your body, your work, or your environment?
  • • Which small, concrete step toward a long‑horizon goal could you take this year so that your future self (or successors) inherit something better?
6

Skill development and physical training are most effective and sustainable when you prioritize slow, precise practice over ego‑driven attempts to perform at full speed too early.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your current learning or training are you rushing for speed or results instead of first nailing the basics slowly and correctly?
  • • How could you redesign one practice session this week to emphasize control, balance, and form rather than intensity or volume?
  • • What is one injury, setback, or recurring mistake that might be avoided if you consciously embraced the "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" approach?
7

Health systems and information ecosystems that are captured by financial interests will not self‑correct; citizens and leaders have to consciously realign incentives around well‑being and truth.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways are your own news and health decisions being influenced by advertising, algorithms, or corporate incentives you haven't fully examined?
  • • How could you diversify your information sources or seek second opinions so that no single captured system has total control over what you believe or do?
  • • What is one small advocacy or voting action you could take in the next year that supports more affordable healthcare or more transparent media in your community?

Episode Summary - Notes by Riley

#2406 - Russell Crowe
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