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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2402 - Miranda Lambert

with Miranda Lambert

Published October 29, 2025
Visit Podcast Website

About This Episode

Joe Rogan speaks with a touring musician about hearing protection, life on the road, and the role of hobbies like mounted shooting, golf, archery, and pool in maintaining focus and mental balance. They discuss her animal rescue nonprofit work, experiences with allergies and moving between cities, and how the COVID shutdown changed her relationship to touring. The conversation also explores fate, early stage experiences, education, ADHD-like traits, impactful teachers, and the mental challenges of high-pressure performance and skill-based pursuits.

Topics Covered

Mental health Personal development Communication skills First responders Work ethic Nonprofit organizations Travel and tourism Mounted shooting Country music industry ADHD

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • In-ear monitors and ear protection have likely saved many musicians' and shooters' hearing, even though they can reduce the perceived energy of a live room.
  • Hobbies like mounted shooting, golf, archery, and pool provide total-focus activities that give performers a mental break from the constant demands of their main careers.
  • Raising and bonding with a baby deer ended the guest's desire to hunt, illustrating how close contact with animals can fundamentally change views on hunting.
  • Her MuttNation Foundation channels her lifelong love of animals into nationwide support for shelters, spay/neuter advocacy, and "adopt, don't shop" messaging.
  • The COVID shutdown forced her off the road for the first time since age 17, helping her realize how much she actually missed touring and how essential rest and seasons of recovery are.
  • Both Joe and the guest describe strong ADHD-like traits and argue that many kids labeled as problems in school may simply learn differently and need to find the domains where their focus becomes an asset.
  • A single supportive teacher who pushes a shy student into public speaking or debate can completely change that student's confidence and career trajectory.
  • Joe describes pool as one of the most mentally demanding games, where people sometimes even turn to drugs trying to recapture rare peak-performance states.
  • They both credit having no real backup plan with driving their commitment to comedy or music, while acknowledging this is risky advice for others.
  • They wrestle with the idea of fate versus randomness, noting how certain chance events-like entering a contest or meeting a spouse-feel too perfectly aligned to be mere coincidence.

Podcast Notes

Opening: Hearing, creativity, and communication in relationships

Messy desk as a reflection of a creative mind

They joke that the desk is a mess because their minds are a mess, framing it as part of being a creative person[0:09]
They acknowledge using the label "I'm a creative" as an excuse for disorganization[0:23]

Discussion about sound, compression, and hearing changes

Joe comments that something sounds weird with the compression and that it is very loud in his headphones[0:29]
He jokes that maybe his ears suddenly got better and recalls moments when water drains from his ears after swimming, making him realize how he normally hears[0:35]

In-ear monitors vs old honky-tonk setups

The guest says she has used in-ear monitors for around 20 years but still isn't used to them because she came from honky-tonk environments where you hear the whole room[0:59]
They agree in-ears save hearing even though they reduce the feeling of room energy, and many older musicians from "back in the day" are now almost deaf[1:17]
Joe notes a similar pattern with friends who shoot guns without hearing protection, many of whom are now half-deaf[1:28]

Her dad's hearing loss and selective listening in marriage

The guest says her dad was a police officer, can't hear at all, and his dog ate his hearing aid, which he never replaced; she suspects it might be intentional[1:43]
Joe and the guest laugh about how people develop the ability to shut sounds off, especially in long marriages[1:54]
Joe says men and women communicate differently and jokes that if you want your wife to talk like your buddies, you married the wrong gender, so you have to really listen with "both ears"[1:58]
The guest describes her husband's selective hearing and how making him repeat instructions like "get bananas" still doesn't guarantee he brings them home[2:24]

Hearing damage, loud music, and shooting sports

When did awareness about loud music damaging hearing arise?

Joe wonders when people first realized loud music could permanently damage hearing, given how many older performers are now nearly deaf[2:57]
The guest admits that even with in-ears she often turns them up too loud because she misses the energy of wedges and loud stages[3:14]

Mounted shooting as a hobby and hearing protection

She explains she does mounted shooting and recalls the first time she took off on her horse without earplugs, realizing as a musician she really should protect her ears[3:38]
Mounted shooting uses revolvers loaded with black powder only, which is considered spectator- and horse-safe because it just sprays powder and air to pop balloons[4:03]
She estimates the effective distance for popping balloons is on the order of feet, not long-range shooting[4:16]

Origins and culture of mounted shooting

She says her friend Kenda Lonsane from Scottsdale is a roughly ten-time world champion in mounted shooting, competing against men and women[4:31]
Joe is surprised there is a world championship for popping balloons on a horse and confirms it is called mounted shooting or cowboy mounted shooting[4:37]
The guest says her husband finally pushed her to stop talking about it and go try it with her friend, and she became immediately addicted[4:51]
Joe frames mounted shooting as essentially Wild West-style training in how to fight with a gun on a horse, with balloons as safe stand-ins for perpetrators[5:00]
She notes she started this new hobby at 40 to preoccupy her mind and get a break from thinking about the music industry constantly[5:25]

Hobbies, golf, and doing hard things in public

Importance of hobbies for performers and creatives

Joe says it's very good for artists to pick up hobbies like golf, fishing, or pool to get their minds off show business[5:38]
The guest says she's in a "try new things" or "yes" era, having just started golf as another new hobby[5:45]

Her first experiences with golf and the Ryder Cup celebrity event

She played in a Ryder Cup-related celebrity event after just starting golf, describing herself as "not too great yet"[5:55]
Because she was on tour all summer, she crammed in golf practice in September and worked with a coach named Dan, who also served as her caddy[6:12]
She felt a lot of pressure doing something she was not good at in front of people, contrasting it with performing songs, where she is very skilled[6:50]

Need for non-career outlets to avoid burnout

Joe says people who focus only on show business-music, comedy, etc.-eventually go crazy because they get lost in their own little worlds[7:46]
He argues that having a break and a life outside the industry is necessary to stay sane[8:04]
The guest says as a writer it's vital to go live life and be around different people; otherwise you just keep writing the same things you've already said[8:04]

Friend going off-grid to reset creatively

Joe describes his comedian friend Ari, who periodically gets rid of his phone and email and disappears off-grid to backpack through Asia for several months[8:25]
He says Ari is already weird and comes back even weirder after living in foreign countries with no contact for months[8:44]

Focus, adrenaline, and mental vacation from mounted shooting and archery

Why mounted shooting is so mentally absorbing

Joe notes that riding a giant animal while shooting a gun requires total focus, leaving no room for mundane thoughts like doing laundry[10:43]
The guest says that intense focus and the little jolt of adrenaline it provides are what made her immediately love and get addicted to the sport[10:55]
She acknowledges she must have some "adrenaline junkie" in her to join the touring "circus" life and then pick up mounted shooting[11:00]

Archery and bowhunting as similar focus practices

Joe relates archery to mounted shooting, saying that shooting at targets gives a mental vacation because there is no room for any other thoughts while releasing the arrow[10:47]
The guest says she used to shoot compound bows and got them back out in 2020 when she had lots of free time, even teaching her New York City-raised husband to shoot[11:55]
She notes that archery provides the same sort of focused, single-task experience as mounted shooting, even if just for a little while[12:14]

Her past bowhunting and why she stopped

She hunted whitetail deer for a long time, often from tree stands or ground blinds, and loved bowhunting for its intimacy and the skill required[12:25]
She raised a baby buck like a pet, and that experience permanently changed her feelings about hunting and ended her hunting days[12:50]
Joe relates that his wife fed an injured buck on their property, which changed her enthusiasm for his hunting; the deer became tame and dog-like[13:14]

Deer, Texas wildlife, and animal rescue work

Deer as quasi-domesticated wildlife

Joe suggests deer may not be very intelligent and that nature seems to have set them up as beautiful "food" animals[13:37]
The guest says her father, a lifelong hunter, declared it was "over" for hunting after she raised the buck, recognizing how it changed them emotionally[13:50]
They discuss how deer are everywhere in Texas neighborhoods, people stop their cars to admire the fawns, and there are few predators besides cars and people[14:12]

Love of animals and MuttNation Foundation

The guest describes herself as a huge animal lover, especially dogs, and says it's a core part of her identity[14:45]
She started MuttNation Foundation with her mom in 2009 and says they have raised over $11 million since then[14:55]
Her parents were private investigators, and her mom used that background initially to vet shelters and make sure they were doing what they claimed[15:55]
MuttNation does not run its own shelters; instead, it "lifts up the arms" of shelters by supporting them and advocating for rescue, spay and neuter, and "adopt don't shop"[16:10]
They give a $5,000 grant every year to a shelter in every U.S. state, trying not to repeat recipients because so many shelters need help[16:16]

Allergies, moving to Austin, and local ecosystems

Dog allergies in the household

Joe explains his wife and one of his daughters are allergic to dogs, which limits how many they can have, but good grooming and cleanliness have reduced his wife's reactions over time[17:01]

Severe animal allergies and allergy shots

The guest says she is allergic to horses, cats, and dogs but chooses to live with those allergies because the animals are worth it to her[17:17]
Joe recalls taking his severely allergic daughter on a horse carriage ride in Rome where her eyes swelled so badly they had to get off and find a pharmacy[17:30]
His daughter tried allergy shots but disliked them; his wife stopped allergy shots and later her allergies improved significantly[17:55]

Austin and Nashville as allergy hotspots

The guest splits time between Nashville and Austin, calling them two of the worst places for allergies[18:14]
Joe says he did not experience allergies his first few years in Austin, then started getting sore throats that disappeared when he traveled to places like Las Vegas, leading him to realize it was allergies[18:35]
He mentions people say it takes about three years for Austin allergies to "get you" and believes his body may slowly adapt, helped by vitamins and time[19:13]

Moving to Austin during COVID and building a comedy scene

Joe notes Austin had essentially no comedy scene when he moved because the only comedy club had closed around the start of the pandemic[20:43]
When Austin allowed indoor live shows during COVID, he and other comedians performed there while much of the country was locked down, prompting many comics to move from Los Angeles[21:04]
He lists himself, Ron White, and Tony Hinchcliffe as early arrivals and says comics were motivated by not wanting to be trapped at home unable to perform for long stretches[21:19]

COVID shutdown, return to touring, and need for seasons of rest

Her early, undiagnosed COVID experience

She believes she caught COVID on tour before it was recognized, describing how none of her usual singer recovery tricks-steroid shots, B12, IVs, vocal rest-helped her persistent illness[23:31]
She had to cancel shows and only later understood it was a new, serious illness that had not yet been named[23:45]

First shows back at Billy Bob's in Texas

After about 332 days of no shows or bus rides, her first show back was a residency of five shows at Billy Bob's in Fort Worth, where venues were reopening[23:46]
She describes the first show back as rowdy and "old school honky-tonk" and admits she cried because of the emotional impact[23:46]
The long break let her truly miss the road and touring lifestyle in a way she never had before because country artists usually tour year-round without long pauses[24:11]

Realizing the need for deliberate downtime

She says touring is back harder than ever and hits differently after 40, with slower recovery, so she tries to carve out real time off[24:53]
She now prioritizes winter breaks, such as going to Arizona to ride and shoot with cowgirls, which left her rejuvenated and refreshed[25:08]
She acknowledges she often overbooks herself, blaming "they" for working her too hard and then realizing "they" is actually herself adding things to her calendar[25:23]
Joe frames creativity as a battery that must be recharged with rest, comparing it to charging a phone rather than running it to zero[25:58]

Active vs passive downtime, songwriting, and creative collaboration

Choosing active hobbies over passive rest

The guest says musicians' work is not very physical, so she prefers physically active hobbies during time off instead of couch time[26:45]
Joe notes he watches some TV and documentaries but feels like he is wasting time if he does too much, so he chooses other engaging activities instead[26:33]

Her songwriting process and love of co-writing

She uses various methods to write-computer, paper-but says she loves co-writing and finds writing alone difficult despite recommending it to younger artists[27:44]
She references a benefit hosted by her friend Jack Ingram where Joe met her and mentions a side project called the Marfa Tapes with Jack Ingram and John Randall[27:52]
They go to Marfa, Texas, which she describes as magical and like a different world about six and a half hours from Austin, to write and record in the desert[28:13]
She says co-writing is fun because someone might bring a guitar riff or a song title, and it's more enjoyable to celebrate creative breakthroughs with friends[28:31]

Working with younger artists and feeding off their fire

She enjoys working with younger artists who feel like racehorses at the gate, their eagerness reminding her of her own early fire and encouraging her to find that feeling again[29:22]
Joe compares this to bringing young comedians on stage and watching them experience big crowds for the first time, which lets him vicariously feel that initial thrill again[29:39]

Stage nerves, mounted shooting risk, and golf uncertainty

Anticipation vs nervousness before shows

She says she doesn't get exactly nervous but feels a strong sense of anticipation because she cares and wants to do well[30:12]
Joe suggests once you stop feeling anything before performing, you are probably doing the wrong thing[30:44]

Being out of control on a horse and on the golf course

She says mounted shooting keeps her full of feelings because she will never fully control the horse; ultimately, it is up to the animal[30:51]
She contrasts music, where she trusts herself and her band, with golf, where she has no idea what will happen when she swings because the result doesn't feel fully under her control[31:27]
Her horse is named Cool, and Joe jokes about the classic song "Cool" by Morris Day and the Time, which she has never heard[31:57]

Prince, authenticity, and early life in cities

Morris Day, Prince, and copying iconic artists

Joe praises Morris Day and the Time as underappreciated and notes they were overshadowed by Prince in the early 1980s[33:30]
They watch a bit of the "Cool" video and are surprised it is from 1981, with the guest saying she wasn't even born then[33:14]
Joe recalls experiencing Prince as a teen and being stunned by his androgynous look, short stature, high voice, and overwhelming charisma that made women adore him despite heels and feminine clothing[34:46]
They agree some artists like Prince are "once in a generation" talents from another world whose charisma and authenticity cannot be taught or replicated[35:13]

Joe's nomadic childhood and life around New York City

Joe lists growing up in New Jersey, San Francisco, Gainesville, and Boston, then living near New York City in New Rochelle because he could not afford city parking as a working comedian[35:57]
He notes his income came from road gigs in nearby states, making car access essential[35:55]

Living in New York, overstimulation, and police work stress

Her experience as a small-town Texan living in Soho

Her husband was NYPD when they married, and they lived in a Soho apartment while she came from a small Texas town where Dallas was the distant big city[38:02]
She describes wandering around the city alone on weekdays, going to rock clubs, having lunch and wine, and enjoying the anonymity of a place where no one cares who you are[38:21]
She wrote songs there, including one called "Fire Escape," and found city life exciting but too intense to sustain full-time because she needed to ground herself and "touch grass"[38:52]

Regulating the nervous system after city and police life

She says her husband finally seems to have a regulated nervous system after leaving NYPD and spending time on their Tennessee farm, doing normal things like baking cookies[39:33]
She felt that living in New York City kept her permanently at a heightened level of arousal, unable to fully come down and ground herself[40:10]

Stress and trauma exposure in police work

Joe argues that being a cop in New York City is one of the most stressful jobs in history, possibly exposing officers to more carnage than some soldiers in war[40:16]
He recounts friends who served both as soldiers and police officers and told him they saw far more violence, wrecks, murders, and domestic incidents as cops[40:35]
The guest notes her husband and father (who worked vice in Dallas) are from families full of police and firefighters, and she believes many officers come home with unacknowledged trauma and coping behaviors like "losing" hearing aids[41:36]

Pool, extreme focus, and mental obsession

Deafness as an advantage in pool

Joe says one of the greatest pool players ever, Shane Van Boening, is deaf and turns his hearing aid off while playing, shutting out all distractions[42:14]

Why pool is so compelling and difficult

Joe has played pool for about 35 years and says the balls do not care who you are, what you've accomplished, or how much money you have; they only respond to perfect execution[42:32]
He explains that pool uniquely requires hitting a ball into another ball while controlling the paths and spins of both, making it a demanding blend of geometry, touch, and mental calm[43:15]
He describes the rare state called being "in dead stroke," where the world dissolves, you intuitively feel ball revolutions and exact speeds, and you almost cannot miss, which players constantly chase[45:10]
Joe says real pool players practice eight hours a day and that the game is so mental some players become addicted to drugs they believe help them reach that peak state[46:04]

Starting music young, lack of backup plan, and the role of fate

Her early gigs and feeling chosen by music

She began playing bar gigs around 17, describing them as shitholes without lights, and felt music "picked" her as the only thing that was not hard for her[46:54]
She was terrible at school and sports, barely graduated high school, and decided not to waste her dad's money on college, leaving herself with no backup plan[48:52]
She believes that having no backup plan created a fire and hunger she cannot fully explain, even though she would hesitate to give that advice broadly because many people might not make it[49:10]

Joe's view on backup plans and total focus

Joe argues that for someone with talent and real desire who can endure hard times, a backup plan can steal time, focus, and energy from their main pursuit[49:20]
He bluntly says "fuck your backup plan" in the context of his own philosophy, while acknowledging people might later blame him if they follow that and fail[49:43]

Fate, chance, and talented people who do not break through

The guest says she believes in fate, partly because of how she met her husband and because music success feels guided, though she knows many immensely talented people it did not happen for[50:56]
She notes that many small factors-timing, being seen at the right moment, or specific life periods-may determine who breaks through and who does not[51:08]
Joe wrestles with fate conceptually, saying his rational mind views it as ego but it still feels real, even as he recognizes that others might live very hard lives with no apparent plan[51:44]

Reaching goals, chasing unconquerable skills, and ADHD-like traits

After achieving goals, making room for fun

She says she feels accomplished and has hit many of her goals, which makes her more ready to take a breath and prioritize hobbies and fun[54:34]
Joe notes that the whole point of "making it" is to have a better life, which should include having more fun rather than only grinding[54:55]

Chasing things you can never fully conquer

Joe says he chooses pursuits like martial arts, comedy, and pool precisely because you can never fully conquer them, which keeps them endlessly engaging[55:05]
The guest jokes that no one told her golf was also in that category until it was too late[55:13]

ADHD-like traits as potential superpowers

Joe says he almost certainly has whatever ADHD is, noting that when he was a kid in the 1960s, children were not diagnosed that way[56:05]
They both identify strongly with ADHD-like traits and call it a superpower if used correctly[56:11]
Joe criticizes medicating kids simply because they cannot sit still in uninspiring classrooms, suggesting parents instead find what the kid is truly good at and naturally focused on[57:15]

School, bad and good teachers, and learning to speak publicly

Joe's negative art teacher experience

Joe recalls liking science and art in school but having a bitter, failed-artist art teacher in high school who was very negative and seemed to kill students' artistic dreams[57:54]
He describes the teacher as underpaid, unhappy, and physically characterized by a skinny body with a "basketball" belly, speculating he likely drank heavily[58:20]
Joe notes that the teacher once gave an F to the best artist in the class, confirming to Joe years later that the man was unfair and demoralizing rather than supportive[59:11]

Her speech and debate teacher who changed everything

The guest describes being extremely shy as a teenager, overshadowed by her vibrant parents and younger brother, and hardly speaking until about age 16[1:00:58]
She was accidentally placed in an honors speech and debate class despite barely passing most courses and panicked, believing she could not do it[1:02:03]
Her mother and the principal met with the teacher, Ms. Caldwell, who insisted the guest needed this challenge, especially if she wanted to be a singer[1:02:14]
Debating against smart seniors in that class slowly brought her out of her shell, and she credits Ms. Caldwell with changing her world and enabling her to develop an onstage personality[1:02:23]

Joe on public speaking as a learnable skill

Joe argues that anyone who can talk to one person can learn public speaking; it is not like breathing underwater, it just requires repetition and experience[1:03:36]
He says people overestimate the impossibility of public speaking, when in reality it is simply a skill that feels scary at first but can be learned like anything else[1:03:54]

First times on stage: comedy, contests, and family bands

Joe's first time doing stand-up vs fighting

Joe recalls being more scared at his first open mic than he had ever been for a fight, despite having competed intensely in martial arts for years[1:05:09]
His friends encouraged him to try comedy because he would crack dark, gallows-humor jokes at tournaments to ease everyone's nerves[1:06:08]
At his first open mic he realized most people were bad and that, like martial arts, comedy is something you start terrible at and improve through repetition[1:07:01]

Her first singing contest and her dad's contraband band

Her first stage performance was around age 16 at the True Value Country Showdown at the Rio Palm Isle in Longview, Texas[1:07:23]
Too shy to talk much, she nonetheless decided to enter, surprising her mom, and sang an original song written by her dad called "Here I Go Again"[1:08:15]
Her father was a police officer and songwriter who played in a side band made of narcotics officers called "Contraband," which she and Joe both find an excellent name[1:07:42]
She did not win the contest but realized she was at least on the same level as other young performers, confirming that singing felt natural rather than foreign[1:09:02]
She also describes playing as the house band in a bar at 18, with her mom attending so she could legally be in the club, then dragging herself to church choir the next morning[1:10:02]

Nicotine pouches, delivery methods, and relative harm

Trying different nicotine pouches

They discuss nicotine pouches, comparing brands and milligram strengths, with Joe cautioning the guest against trying very strong ones that could make her sick[1:14:37]

Why Joe uses nicotine despite his health focus

The guest challenges Joe on why he uses nicotine pouches given his otherwise strong focus on health[1:16:18]
Joe replies that nicotine itself is not the main problem; the delivery method is, particularly cigarettes that involve combustion and added chemicals[1:16:23]
He suggests that natural cigarettes without added chemicals are probably less harmful than highly processed ones and mentions a physician, Dr. Suzanne Humphreys, who has explained reasons regular cigarettes differ, though the details are not given in the transcript[1:17:42]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Deliberately cultivating hobbies outside your primary career gives your mind a complete focus shift, which can prevent burnout and actually deepen your creativity when you return to your main work.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What non-work activity could absorb your full attention the way mounted shooting, archery, or pool does for them?
  • • How might scheduling even one "no-phone, full-focus" hobby block each week change how you feel about your main job?
  • • What is one small step you can take this month to explore or restart a hobby that has nothing to do with your profession?
2

Sometimes the fastest way to grow is to remove your backup plan, because split focus and easy exits quietly drain the intensity and time required to reach your full potential.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what area of your life are you keeping a comfortable backup plan that might be diluting your commitment?
  • • How would your daily actions change if you treated one key goal as if there were no safe alternative path?
  • • What is one "safety net" you could consciously scale back (not recklessly, but intentionally) to increase your focus on what matters most?
3

Teachers, mentors, and gatekeepers can either crush potential or unlock it, so seeking out people who truly see your capacity and are willing to push you is critical.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in your life has played the role of Ms. Caldwell-pushing you into something uncomfortable that later changed you for the better?
  • • Where are you currently accepting the judgment of a "bad art teacher" type figure instead of looking for someone who believes in your abilities?
  • • How could you act as a positive catalyst for someone else this year by nudging them into a growth experience they are afraid of?
4

Traits often labeled as problems in traditional school settings-like restlessness or difficulty sitting still-can become superpowers when matched with the right domain and environment.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Looking back, which of your childhood "problems" might actually have been strengths in disguise?
  • • How could you redesign your current work or routines to better fit the way your attention and energy naturally operate?
  • • Who in your orbit (a child, colleague, or friend) might thrive if given a different outlet instead of being pressured to conform to one rigid mold?
5

High-skill, high-precision pursuits are as much mental as physical, and learning to manage your internal state-nerves, focus, self-talk-is often the real game.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When you perform under pressure (presenting, selling, competing), what mental patterns tend to help or sabotage you the most?
  • • How might adopting a "practice like a pro" mindset in one area of your life change your confidence when the stakes are high?
  • • What simple pre-performance routine could you experiment with this week to calm your mind and improve your focus before important tasks?

Episode Summary - Notes by Avery

#2402 - Miranda Lambert
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