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TED Talks Daily

Two US governors - a Democrat and a Republican - on why there's hope for democracy | Matt Meyer and J. Kevin Stitt

with Matt Meyer, J. Kevin Stitt

Published November 12, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Democratic Governor of Delaware Matt Meyer and Republican Governor of Oklahoma J. Kevin Stitt interview each other on stage at TED Next 2025 about the health and future of American democracy. They discuss restoring trust in government through effective service delivery and federalism, navigating polarized information ecosystems, leveraging AI and apprenticeships in education, and preserving the American dream through integrity-driven, bipartisan leadership. The conversation emphasizes shared values, personal rapport, and practical reforms over partisan point-scoring.

Topics Covered

U.S. politics and elections Leadership and management Education system Artificial intelligence Media trust and propaganda Nonprofit organizations War and empire Resilience Entrepreneurship Personal Development

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Both governors argue that restoring trust in government starts with states delivering core services like education, infrastructure, healthcare, and public safety effectively and affordably.
  • They emphasize federalism and state-level innovation, arguing that states are closer to the people and should act as laboratories of democracy rather than relying on one-size-fits-all federal solutions.
  • Meyer and Stitt highlight the dangers of polarized media and social media echo chambers, urging Americans to build relationships across political lines and to ground policy in data rather than influencers.
  • Both see AI as a powerful tool for personalized education that can help teachers meet students where they are, while insisting that educators and families, not large tech companies, must guide its use.
  • Stitt calls for more integrity in politics and less blind party loyalty, while Meyer stresses empathy and teamwork as essential to sustaining the American experiment in self-government.
  • They praise apprenticeship-style workforce education models seen in Switzerland and Germany as examples the U.S. could adapt to better connect schooling with real jobs.
  • Stitt roots his hope for democracy in the enduring American dream of equal opportunity, while Meyer finds hope in recent elections, cross-party collaboration among governors, and citizens who engage with those who disagree with them.

Podcast Notes

Podcast introduction and setup

Host Elise Hugh introduces TED Talks Daily and the theme of the episode

TED's belief in ideas as bridge-builders[2:28]
• Elise says TED believes in the power of ideas to bring people together and build bridges across political divides.
Context of the TED Next conference and guest pairing[2:39]
• Elise explains that at the second TED Next conference in Atlanta, TED invited Democratic Governor of Delaware Matt Meyer and Republican Governor of Oklahoma J. Kevin Stitt.
• The format is that the two governors will ask each other a series of questions.
Framing of the conversation[2:37]
• Elise says the exchange offers a rare glimpse of what productive disagreement can look like.
• She notes it highlights moments when people realize they have more in common than they think.

Question 1: Restoring trust in government

Opening moments on stage

Lighthearted opening[3:07]
• One of the governors greets the audience with "Good morning, everyone" and notes it is great to be in the hall.
• He jokes that the hall is about the size of Delaware, eliciting humor.

Kevin Stitt's answer: federalism and state-level trust

Founders' vision of limited federal government[3:26]
• Stitt says trust in the federal government is low and that the founding fathers did not envision the federal government dominating every part of life.
• He emphasizes the concept of federalism, where states are closer to the people.
States as primary actors in key policy areas[3:34]
• Stitt lists education, infrastructure, economy, and healthcare as core state responsibilities.
• He criticizes one-size-fits-all approaches from the federal government as problematic.
• He notes that Delaware is different from Oklahoma, just as New Hampshire was different from Virginia in the founders' time.
States created the federal government[4:16]
• Stitt points out that unlike some countries where the federal government created subdivisions, in the U.S. the states created the federal government.
States as "laboratories of democracy"[4:01]
• He calls the 50 states "laboratories of democracy" and says returning to strong states' rights would improve outcomes.
• Stitt mentions Congress has about a 15% approval rating, contrasting it with states as sources of ideas and innovation.
• He suggests people are happier when states, which know their populations, lead instead of a top-down federal approach.

Matt Meyer's answer: delivering concrete services

Meyer's path from teaching to politics[4:44]
• Meyer recalls that 10 years ago he was a 6th and 7th grade math teacher.
• He notes there are teachers in the crowd and comments that not enough teachers go into politics.
• He says he ran for county office as a fairly progressive Democrat.
Common ground on local service delivery[4:59]
• Meyer found that MAGA Republicans, Bernie Democrats, and people in between would support him if basic services were done well.
• He cites keeping sewage out of people's basements and keeping sewer fees low as examples of shared concerns.
• He adds that answering 911 calls quickly with qualified, well-trained police who understand the community also builds trust.
Four main budget categories for governors[5:26]
• Meyer says if you go to 50 governors across the country, their budgets are essentially education, medication, transportation, and incarceration.
• He argues that if governors can do those four things with excellence and deliver, plus possibly reduce taxes to keep life affordable, they will regain public trust.
• He frames effective service delivery and affordability as the path to winning back the American people.

Question 2: Governing amid polarized information and realities

Meyer's perspective: importance of shared data and truth

Emergency room analogy for objective reality[6:14]
• Meyer notes his wife is an emergency room physician.
• He says that in her ER, there is no alternative reality: if someone cannot breathe and the data show that, no one pretends otherwise.
• He jokes that a patient cannot show a TikTok video that denies a physical injury like a foot falling off if it is actually occurring.
Desire for similar clarity in politics and policy[6:51]
• Meyer wishes he had the same sense of objective data and truth in his political world as his wife does in medicine.
• He uses vaccines as an example where he believes data are clear and should guide policy.
• He laments that a single social media influencer can shift public perception away from what data indicate.
Echo chambers and democracy[7:06]
• Meyer says many Americans live in echo chambers, watching the same TV channels that reassure and affirm their existing views.
• He argues that breaking those patterns is essential because it will be hard to build a democracy together without doing so.

Stitt's perspective: humanizing political opponents and leadership

Acknowledging polarization and mutual suspicion[7:38]
• Stitt says there are probably people watching who hate him simply because he is a Republican.
• He adds that there are also people who hate Meyer just because he is a Democrat.
• He attributes this to polarization and being driven to corners by social media and traditional media.
Personal connection between the governors[7:50]
• Stitt notes that he knows Meyer, his wife Lauren, and that Meyer has three children.
• He jokes about family size, saying he is halfway to Kevin Stitt with six children, and Meyer quips not to tell his wife yet.
• He mentions they recently traveled to Switzerland together to study that country's education model, especially workplace learning and apprenticeships.
Shared commitment beyond party labels[8:13]
• Stitt says he knows Meyer cares about Delaware citizens and is passionate about giving them a better life, especially through education.
• He emphasizes that leaders should not aim to change everyone's point of view but to lead and ask themselves key questions about polarization.
Debating policy without personal animosity[8:44]
• Stitt argues that when people bring out the humanity in each other and spend time with those who think differently, it becomes possible to debate policy and still like each other.
• He says this is refreshing and part of why they enjoy doing events together.
• He concludes this segment by highlighting that a Republican and a Democrat can like each other, disagree, but not be disagreeable.

Question 3: State innovations others can learn from

Stitt's examples from Oklahoma

Responding to federal disruptions and supporting vulnerable citizens[9:29]
• Stitt notes that a government shutdown and SNAP benefits are affecting all states, and governors have been on the phone discussing responses.
• He emphasizes the need to meet the needs of the most vulnerable.
Be a Neighbor initiative[9:35]
• Stitt describes launching "be a neighbor" in 2019 when he was first elected.
• He says he does not believe a law in Washington, D.C., or Oklahoma City can fix certain social issues.
• He argues that it takes neighbors walking with neighbors, as well as churches and nonprofits.
• The be a neighbor website connects people in need with nonprofits, church communities, and state resources.
Energy policy and fiscal responsibility[10:15]
• Stitt mentions "behind the meter" energy policy and the importance of winning the energy race in Oklahoma.
• He highlights fiscal responsibility and business-minded leadership he brought from the private sector.
• He views the governor's job as being the CEO of the state, managing a $40 billion budget and 30,000 state employees.
• His goal is to deliver better services for Oklahomans and he criticizes politicians who focus more on politics than on delivery.

Meyer's examples from Delaware: affordability agenda

Humorous nod to Talladega Nights and the "first state"[11:02]
• Meyer jokes that there are many Talladega Nights fans in Oklahoma and Delaware and that he is a fan of the character Ricky Bobby.
• He quips that being from Delaware, the first state, fits Ricky Bobby's line, "If you're not first, you're last."
Centering affordability in state policy[11:09]
• Meyer says Delaware is trying to put affordability at the center of everything it does.
• He describes a current economy where billionaires have increased opportunities to build wealth, while working people are being squeezed.
• He lists public schools that do not seem to be working, skyrocketing energy prices, and healthcare with entrenched 20th-century problems and rising costs as burdens on working people.
Medical school and healthcare workforce[11:43]
• Meyer notes Delaware is working on building a medical school so providers will be available in-state.
• He says there has never been a medical school in Delaware before.
Reducing bureaucratic friction and energy costs[11:56]
• Meyer explains they are streamlining permitting and getting rid of what a former president he says he likes called "bureaucratic malarkey."
• The goal is to remove friction that prevents construction of needed housing to bring down rents.
• They are also working on building new energy sources to support the economy and keep power bills affordable.

Question 4: Fixing one aspect of American political culture

Meyer's answer: fostering teamwork and unity of purpose

Lessons from serving as a diplomat in Iraq[12:28]
• Meyer recounts that 15 years ago he was a U.S. diplomat embedded with the Army in Mosul, Iraq, for 12 months during Operation Iraqi Freedom.
• He clarifies he was not a soldier but lived on a base with 10,000 soldiers.
• He says soldiers on the base came from every corner of America.
• He expected to learn mainly about Iraq and Arab culture but instead learned a lot about America.
Unified American team abroad vs. divisions at home[12:47]
• Meyer describes leaving the base two or three times a week as part of a team meeting Iraqis to build a lasting peace.
• He notes that they were not always on the same page as the Iraqis they met, but the American team itself was united.
• He wonders why, when discussing housing, healthcare, education, or economic growth in Delaware, there are such intense internal divisions.
The American experiment in self-government[13:16]
• Meyer calls the U.S. "the greatest human experiment in self-government" that has ever occurred.
• He notes the country is nearing 250 years into this experiment.
• He argues Americans need to find ways to sit on stage together and break bread, rather than directing all energy toward tearing each other down.
• He believes there are opportunities in Oklahoma and Delaware that will be realized if people work together.

Stitt's answer: integrity and rejecting blind partisanship

Defining integrity in politics[13:50]
• Stitt says the one aspect he would change is to inject more integrity into politics.
• He defines integrity as doing what is right just because it is right, even when it is costly.
Critique of team-based, polarized politics[14:13]
• Stitt claims people hate politicians because they can see when politicians are not doing what is right.
• He criticizes blindly following partisan teams, whether one is on the "skins" or "shirts," or Democrat or Republican.
• He urges calling issues honestly and not letting discourse be driven entirely to ideological corners.
Most Americans in the middle[14:28]
• Stitt estimates about 10% of Americans are on the far right and 10% on the far left.
• He says most Americans are in the middle, busy taking kids to piano lessons and soccer practice, and wanting good education and healthcare.
• He believes more conversations like the one he is having with Meyer can help reduce polarization and focus debate on ideas.
Invoking Lincoln and rejecting political revenge[14:52]
• Stitt says he is a huge fan of President Lincoln and recalls Lincoln's second inaugural address.
• He quotes Lincoln's language about "malice towards none" and "charity for all."
• He notes that at the Civil War's end some wanted to punish the other side, similar to swings of the political pendulum today.
• He argues Americans must stop weaponizing the Department of Justice or canceling business deals based on politics, on either side.
• He advocates allowing Americans to innovate and meet needs without political retaliation.

Question 5: AI's influence on education and the future of neighborhood public schools

Meyer's answer: opportunity and caution with AI in education

Critique of social media in classrooms[15:48]
• Meyer says Democrats and Republicans can agree that social media should be out of the classroom.
• He states that kids need to be off social media.
Early experience bringing computers and the web into schools[16:02]
• Meyer recounts that in his first year of teaching in Teach for America in Washington, D.C., his school had no computers.
• He and colleagues approached businesses and nearby universities to obtain any computers they could.
• Within months they had two or three computers in every classroom.
• He describes plugging computers into the wall and seeing students' faces light up as they accessed the World Wide Web.
• The web gave students opportunities to explore and learn beyond the physical school walls.
AI as an assessment and personalization tool[16:38]
• Meyer says AI similarly offers incredible opportunities for education.
• He suggests AI could allow elimination of standardized testing.
• He argues AI tools can enable better and more thorough daily assessments of students than traditional tests.
• He notes a challenge he faced as a 6th grade math teacher: some students had 4th or 5th grade skills, others had 7th or 8th grade skills.
• He believes technology can help deliver instruction that is relevant and tailored to the skill levels of different students.
Need for human and local control over technology[17:04]
• Meyer warns that technology must be controlled, not allowed to control users.
• He emphasizes that AI in education should not be driven by trillion-dollar companies deciding what kids need.
• He insists that families and teachers should drive educational needs and how technology is used.

Stitt's answer: personalized learning and workforce integration

Using AI to address gaps in basic skills[16:56]
• Stitt describes observing a 6th grade teacher instructing a class that included a student not reading at grade level.
• He asked the teacher why she kept giving that student 6th grade material.
• The teacher replied that she is a 6th grade teacher and implied she must teach 6th grade material.
• Stitt says with AI they can go back and teach 1st or 2nd grade phonics to students who need it and then bring them up to grade level.
• He views AI as a tool to help students and support teachers, which Oklahoma is embracing.
Learning from Swiss apprenticeship and workforce models[18:02]
• Stitt shifts to workforce and education, arguing that businesses need to be more involved.
• He refers again to their recent trip to Switzerland.
• He explains that in Switzerland, compulsory education ends in 9th grade.
• After 9th grade, every student signs a contract and begins working, because workplace education is viewed as real education.
• Students gain an accreditation through this system and can still go on to college if they choose.
• Stitt contrasts this with U.S. perceptions that vocational tracks are dead ends and that all students should aim for college.
• He says Switzerland and Germany operate differently and believes the U.S. needs to reinvent its approach.
• He notes Swiss students in these programs were earning about 1,000 Swiss francs at age 15, approximately 1,300 to 1,400 U.S. dollars.
• He calls the model impressive and says they are bringing it back to Oklahoma and Delaware to better engage students in the workforce.

Question 6: Sources of hope for American democracy

Stitt's answer: the American dream and equal opportunity

National Governors Association and focus on the American dream[19:20]
• Stitt notes that both men are part of the National Governors Association, a bipartisan group of all governors.
• He says he is the chair that year and that his initiative is "reigniting the American dream."
Defining the American dream[19:21]
• Stitt describes the American dream as an idea unique to the U.S. that attracts people from other countries.
• He defines it as the belief that you can be anything you set your mind to, regardless of who your parents are or whether you grew up rich or poor.
• He emphasizes that through education and free markets, people can achieve their individual American dream.
• He notes there are as many dreams as people: examples include coaching a daughter's soccer team, starting a nonprofit, or starting a business.
Hope in equal opportunity, not equal outcomes[20:07]
• Stitt argues that as long as the American dream is alive, American democracy is worth fighting for.
• He insists children should not be taught that equal outcomes for everyone are possible or desirable.
• Instead, he says, the focus should be on equal opportunities for people to chase their dreams.
• He again stresses the importance of education in providing opportunities and exposing kids to what is possible.
• He mentions his belief that God has uniquely created everyone with different skills, desires, and abilities that leaders should help the next generation discover.
• He concludes that differences between Delaware and Oklahoma are part of America's greatness, and that democracy is worth fighting for.
• He says they are demonstrating on stage that they like each other and can lead their states differently while still fighting for America.

Meyer's answer: recent elections, empathy, and governor leadership

Hope from recent elections and inclusive ideals[20:59]
• Meyer jokes that he calls the vision Stitt described a diverse, equitable, and inclusive America, and tells him not to use the initials.
• He says candidly that last Tuesday's election gave him some hope for American democracy, though he notes he may be outnumbered in the room politically.
The Simpsons electroshock analogy and dysfunction in Washington[21:25]
• Meyer mentions he is a big Simpsons fan and references an episode where the family goes to electroshock therapy.
• In the episode, the characters shock each other until all the power in their town of Springfield goes out.
• Meyer compares this to what he sees happening in Washington, D.C., with political actors figuratively shocking each other.
• He notes that uncertainty in Washington was so great they were not sure they could fly to the event, though now they expect to get out without a problem.
• He points out that some people literally have been unable to eat or get SNAP benefits due to political gridlock.
Governors' role and the need for empathy across divides[21:53]
• Meyer says there is an opportunity for governors like them, sitting together as human beings and Americans, to model a different approach.
• He encourages people to talk to someone who disagrees with them, not to argue, but to listen.
• He urges listeners to empathize with others and understand the positions they come from.
• He notes that as a teacher he had to do that, and many Americans do it in their own lives.
• He concludes that such empathy and listening are how people can have hope for the next 250 years of the American experiment in self-governance.

TED outro and nonpartisan statement

Credits and organizational stance

Identifying speakers and event[22:25]
• A voice thanks listeners for listening to Matt Meyer and J. Kevin Stitt at TED Next 2025.
TED's nonpartisanship policy[22:32]
• The outro states that TED is a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization.
• It clarifies TED does not participate or intervene in political campaigns and neither supports nor opposes any candidate for public office.
Curation guidelines and production credits[22:46]
• Listeners are told they can learn more about TED's curation at a page for curation guidelines.
• Elise Hu notes that TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
• She says the talk was fact-checked by the TED Research Team and lists producers and editors by name.
• She closes by saying she will be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for listeners' feeds and thanks them for listening.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Trust in institutions is earned when leaders focus less on ideology and more on reliably delivering core services that people directly experience, like safety, infrastructure, education, and affordability.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which basic services or responsibilities in your own work or life do people rely on you for but you may be underinvesting in?
  • • How could you measure whether you are actually delivering on the outcomes that matter most to the people you serve, rather than assuming you are?
  • • What is one concrete improvement you could make this month that would be immediately felt by those who depend on you?
2

Integrity in leadership means doing what is right even when it is politically, socially, or personally costly, instead of blindly following a "team" or tribe.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you knew the right thing to do but hesitated because it conflicted with your group's expectations?
  • • How might your decision-making change if you evaluated choices primarily on principles and long-term consequences rather than on whether your peers will approve?
  • • What is one upcoming decision where you can explicitly commit in advance to follow your values, even if it costs you approval or advantage?
3

Escaping echo chambers and intentionally engaging with people who see the world differently creates the empathy and shared reality needed to solve complex collective problems.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Whose perspectives on politics, business, or life do you rarely hear because of your current media diet and social circle?
  • • How could you structure regular, low-conflict conversations with people who disagree with you so that the goal is listening rather than winning?
  • • What is one belief you hold strongly that you could deliberately investigate by talking to someone intelligent who disagrees with it?
4

Technology like AI is most powerful when used as a tool to personalize learning and support humans, while governance and guardrails remain in the hands of educators, families, and local communities.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what areas of your work or learning could AI or other tools help tailor information or practice to your actual level instead of a generic standard?
  • • How can you stay in charge of why and how you use new technologies, rather than letting convenience or corporate defaults silently shape your behavior?
  • • What is one specific workflow or learning challenge you face that you could experiment with augmenting using AI in a controlled, values-aligned way this week?
5

Sustaining a healthy democracy or organization depends on preserving equal opportunity-creating pathways for diverse talents and backgrounds to thrive-rather than promising or demanding equal outcomes.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your team, family, or community are talented people blocked by lack of access, information, or confidence rather than lack of ability?
  • • How could you redesign one process you influence (hiring, promotion, mentorship, education, volunteering) to focus more on opening doors and less on predetermining who "deserves" to be there?
  • • What is one opportunity you have benefited from that you could intentionally extend to someone who has not traditionally had access to it?

Episode Summary - Notes by Quinn

Two US governors - a Democrat and a Republican - on why there's hope for democracy | Matt Meyer and J. Kevin Stitt
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