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Stuff You Should Know

Julia Child, la Grandes Gourmande

Published November 27, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Hosts Josh and Chuck explore the life, career, and cultural impact of Julia Child, tracing her path from privileged Pasadena upbringing and World War II OSS service to becoming America's most influential cookbook author and television chef. They discuss her late start in cooking, her revelatory first French meal, her training at Le Cordon Bleu, the creation of 'Mastering the Art of French Cooking', and the launch of 'The French Chef' on PBS. The episode also covers why she was so beloved-her humor, mistakes on camera, feminist outlook on the kitchen, love of butter and wine, hallmark recipes, and her distinctive final resting place in an underwater cemetery.

Topics Covered

Biographical learning CIA covert operations Julia Child French cuisine Cooking shows Mastering the Art of French Cooking Culinary history Wine culture Feminism Television history

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Quick Takeaways

  • Julia Child did not begin cooking seriously until her late 30s but went on to transform American home cooking through French cuisine.
  • Her World War II work for the OSS included helping develop an effective shark repellent, which she jokingly called her first big recipe.
  • A single meal in France featuring sole meunière and wine fundamentally changed her life and set her on a culinary path.
  • Mastering the Art of French Cooking demystified French techniques for American home cooks by explaining every step, tool, and term in detail.
  • The French Chef pioneered the modern cooking show, with Julia embracing on-air mistakes to make cooking feel approachable.
  • She championed fresh, quality ingredients, real butter and cream, and wine, while rejecting food snobbery and processed shortcuts.
  • Julia saw the kitchen as a place where women could claim agency and pleasure, not just domestic obligation, aligning herself with feminism.
  • Signature dishes like boeuf bourguignon, quiche Lorraine, cassoulet, chocolate mousse, and French onion soup became staples in America through her influence.
  • Her public persona mixed work ethic, humor, and self-deprecation, making her beloved across generations.
  • Julia Child's cremated remains are part of an underwater memorial reef off Key Biscayne, marked with a plaque quoting her line, "Fat gives things flavor."

Podcast Notes

Holiday introduction and setup

Hosts open the show with Thanksgiving context

Josh introduces himself, Chuck, and producer Jerry and jokes that they are stuffed with turkey and wearing aprons with gravy on their mouths[1:54]
Chuck wishes listeners in the U.S. a happy Thanksgiving and acknowledges Canadian listeners' earlier Thanksgiving[2:08]

Overview of episode topic: Julia Child

Setting up Julia Child as an iconic figure

Josh announces the episode is about Julia Child, calling her arguably one of the most well-known cooks and chefs of all time[4:40]
Chuck does a faux exit bit saying he has cut his finger, mimicking the famous Julia Child / Dan Aykroyd sketch[4:53]
• Josh compliments Chuck's impression as a dead-on Dan Aykroyd-as-Julia-Child rather than Julia herself

Early TV memories of Julia Child

Chuck recalls surfing PBS as a kid in the 70s-90s and occasionally landing on Julia Child's shows[5:14]
He remembers wondering who this very tall woman with an unusual way of speaking was, cooking on TV[5:23]
Chuck notes he was never intimidated by her; instead she seemed friendly and gregarious and instantly likable[5:30]

Julia Child's impact on American food culture

Josh argues that even if listeners are not familiar with Julia, any American who enjoys decent, non-processed food owes her a large debt[5:41]
He says you can argue that Julia Child almost single-handedly introduced America to "real food" via French cuisine[5:54]
Chuck contrasts today's farm-to-table and pride in home cooking with the mid-20th century norm of processed, show-off dishes[6:08]
• He cites Jell-O molds with ground beef as an example of mid-century "fancy" dinner party food that she helped displace

Julia Child's early life and education

Birth, accent, and family background

Josh explains many people mistakenly thought Julia was British because of her accent[6:28]
He clarifies she was American, born in Pasadena, California, and her accent was a taught mid-Atlantic accent from private schooling and Smith College[7:03]
Her birth name was Julia McWilliams[7:12]
Josh notes her parents were well-to-do: her father a financier and her mother an heiress to a paper company fortune[7:20]
She grew up with a cook in the house, but that did not directly turn her into a foodie[7:26]

Early personality, ambitions, and first jobs

Josh and Chuck emphasize she had a circuitous route to becoming a famous cook and led an interesting life even before cooking[8:18]
She was reportedly a disaster in the kitchen initially and did not start cooking seriously until around her late 30s or 40s[7:47]
• Josh mentions her main prior food-related role was chairing the refreshment committee for a college prom and fall dance at Smith, which he presents almost jokingly as her closest earlier brush with being a gourmand
Julia studied history and wanted to be a writer[8:20]
She was notably tall at 6'2" and athletic, playing basketball, tennis, and golf[8:24]
After graduating in 1934, she moved to New York and worked as an advertising copywriter for Sloan's, a furniture company[8:32]
Chuck notes she was consistently described as friendly, gregarious, and very well-liked socially throughout her life[8:43]
Josh adds she liked wine but was also responsible; if she did something silly like putting a lampshade on her head, she remembered it and did it on purpose[8:43]

Julia Child's World War II service with the OSS

Joining the OSS and early duties

When World War II broke out, Julia wanted to become a spy and joined the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the direct predecessor of the CIA[9:22]
Josh says she worked directly under "Wild Bill" Donovan, founder of the OSS, though Chuck notes she didn't have a ton of direct interaction with him[9:27]
Her early work was menial but important pre-computer clerical work, such as typing profiles of OSS officers onto note cards for filing[9:41]
Her charm and strong work ethic led to several promotions within the OSS[9:09]

Developing shark repellent in the Emergency Sea Rescue Equipment Section

She was promoted to the Emergency Sea Rescue Equipment Section, tasked with developing shark repellent for downed pilots and shipwrecked sailors[10:22]
Sharks were a serious problem; Josh cites at least 20 sailors being attacked by sharks in the war's first years and mentions sharks could also prematurely detonate anti-U-boat sea mines[10:26]
Julia worked in what they describe as a "test kitchen" trying over 100 different shark-repellent formulations[10:25]
The final formula included decayed shark meat, organic acids, and copper acetate as the main ingredient[10:25]
• They explain copper acetate mixed with black dye mimicked the scent of a dead shark, which sharks apparently avoid
The repellent was formed into a small cake or puck that could be attached to a life vest, repelling sharks for six to seven hours[10:25]
Josh says it was so effective that it is still the shark repellent used today[10:41]
Julia jokingly referred to this shark repellent as her "first big recipe" and the hosts imitate her voice saying the phrase[10:45]

Later OSS roles and feminist angle

From 1944-45 she served as chief of the OSS registry and was stationed in China and Ceylon (modern-day Sri Lanka)[11:31]
Josh notes she had top secret clearance, the highest security level for that assignment, which he finds remarkable for a woman in the 1940s[11:42]
He says she basically always considered herself a feminist and that her OSS trajectory exemplified that[11:48]

Meeting Paul Child and their partnership

While working in the OSS, she met her future husband, officer Paul Child[12:04]
Chuck clarifies he highlights this not to reduce her to a spouse but because Paul became a life partner who helped nurture her career and served her[12:38]
Friends reportedly envied their relationship; Josh says they were married from 1946 until Paul's death in 1994[12:29]
• They repeatedly describe them as a wonderful couple and the kind of relationship people aspire to have

Discovery of French cuisine and its impact on Julia

Move to France and the life-changing meal

In 1948, Paul's assignment took them to France, a "sliding doors" moment the hosts say might have determined whether Julia would become Julia Child as we know her[13:36]
Paul was a foodie and took her to a proper French meal to see what she thought, at La Couronne ("the crown"), a famed restaurant in Normandy on a river[13:36]
Josh notes La Couronne has operated as a restaurant since the 1340s and is claimed by some to be the oldest inn in all of France[13:09]
At this 1948 lunch, Julia had oysters, Pouilly-Fumé wine (described as the official Sauvignon Blanc), and sole meunière[14:20]
• They explain sole meunière as sole fish dredged in flour and cooked with capers, lemon, butter, and parsley
Julia described the meal as an opening up of her soul and spirit, a coming-to-Jesus moment, and the most exciting meal of her life[14:38]
That simple dish became one of her signature recipes for the rest of her career[13:49]

Explaining French cuisine

Chuck says that from watching shows like Top Chef, he understands French cuisine as using humble, basic ingredients rather than being inherently fancy[15:06]
He emphasizes the focus on quality ingredients, real fats like butter and cream, and impeccable technique[14:37]
Josh notes French cuisine was the first cuisine recognized by UNESCO as a world heritage, underscoring how distinct and important it is[15:06]
They characterize French cooking as simple, humble, and technique-driven, using very well-sourced ingredients[15:30]

Culinary education and founding a cooking school

Training at Le Cordon Bleu and starting to teach

Motivated to understand how that transformative meal happened, Julia began taking cooking classes as a complete novice[15:09]
She eventually enrolled at Le Cordon Bleu, and in 1951 she co-founded a cooking school with Simone Beck and Louisette Bertholle[15:30]
Their school, operated out of her own kitchen, was called L'École des Trois Gourmands (the school of the three gourmands)[15:15]
Chuck mentions he read she was either the only woman in her class at Le Cordon Bleu or one of two, highlighting the male dominance of professional kitchens at the time[15:26]
He notes that within ten years of enrolling at Le Cordon Bleu, she had sold her best-selling cookbook and, decades later, her kitchen would end up as a permanent exhibit at the Smithsonian[15:51]

Creation of 'Mastering the Art of French Cooking'

Why the cookbook was revolutionary

Josh introduces "Mastering the Art of French Cooking", which Julia co-wrote with Simone Beck and Louisette Bertholle specifically for an American audience[15:30]
Prior cookbooks often used vague directions and assumed professional training, giving instructions like "take a handful of flour" without explanation[16:16]
Julia designed this book for complete novices, knowing from her own late start what they would need: explanations of every tool, technique, and step[16:16]
• The book explains terms like julienne rather than assuming readers already know them, and even specifies ideal knives, pans, and methods
The book contained 524 recipes in the first volume and taught French cuisine as a coherent system, effectively training buyers in French cooking[16:32]

Demystifying "high-class" cooking for home kitchens

Chuck says the book broke down a wall by demystifying what was seen as high-class cooking, showing it could be done in a Sheboygan home kitchen[16:53]
Josh jokes that in Sheboygan everyone grew pencil-thin mustaches and wore berets, while women wore "pencil pants" in response to French chic[17:01]

Publishing struggles and finding the right editor

Despite its eventual influence, the manuscript was rejected by multiple publishers before being accepted[17:16]
Judith Jones at Alfred A. Knopf finally acquired it; Chuck calls her the editor and notes her earlier discovery of the Diary of Anne Frank for English readers[18:21]
Josh says Jones recognized the importance of Julia's cookbook, not necessarily equal to Anne Frank's diary but still profoundly world-changing for American cooking[17:37]
They mention that some sources claim the book spent five years on the bestseller list, though Josh couldn't fully verify that figure[18:12]
Josh notes that French culture was very chic when the book launched: a French chef worked in the White House, Audrey Hepburn and Jackie Kennedy wore French fashions, and French wine was rising in popularity[17:59]
A second volume of the cookbook was published in 1970 with an additional 257 recipes[18:10]
Chuck says signed first editions of both volumes together can sell for $10,000 or more[18:21]
Josh and Chuck describe the books as "Bibles" for American cooks and say they helped make people start treating cookbooks as kitchen Bibles in the U.S.[18:43]

Television career and 'The French Chef'

From book promotion to TV pilot

After moving around Europe in the 1950s, Julia and Paul settled in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the 1960s[19:07]
While promoting her cookbook, she appeared on WGBH's book review show 'I've Been Reading...' and demonstrated how to cook an omelet on air[19:34]
• She brought her own hot plate, sauté pan, eggs, and tools; viewers loved it and flooded the station with positive feedback
Based on this response, WGBH offered her her own cooking show[19:34]

'The French Chef' and its influence

Within a year, 'The French Chef' debuted on WGBH, at a time when cooking shows were essentially nonexistent[20:39]
The show ran for about 10 years, was picked up by other PBS stations, and later aired in Europe and the UK via the BBC[19:17]
Josh says this success made Julia Child the most widely recognized chef in the world, at least in the U.S., during the 1960s and early 1970s[19:07]
They note that many credit Julia and 'The French Chef' with pioneering the cooking show genre that is ubiquitous today[20:52]

Awards and technical innovations

Julia won an Emmy and a Peabody Award for 'The French Chef'[20:27]
It was the first TV show in the United States to feature captions for deaf and hard-of-hearing viewers; Josh notes these were actually open captions visible to all[20:37]

On-air style: mistakes, humor, and feminism in the kitchen

Chuck says Julia was beloved for being lovable, non-patronizing, and for embracing mistakes on camera[20:41]
She insisted editors leave mistakes in, saying mistakes are part of cooking and wanting viewers to see that[20:52]
Josh explains that by showing she was not infallible, she helped viewers feel comfortable making their own mistakes and learning from them[20:36]
Chuck shares that documentary filmmakers about Julia said she also wanted to counter the idea that women had to feel bad when they messed up in the kitchen or in life[20:59]
• Her message was that it's okay to mess up and that women could claim the kitchen as a space for themselves, cooking what they wanted, not just what husbands and kids demanded
Josh frames this as somewhat counter to strands of feminism urging women to get out of the kitchen; Julia's feminist stance was to own and enjoy the kitchen as a realm of agency[20:59]

Later TV work and home kitchen studio

Julia had a long string of successful cooking shows through the 1970s, 80s, and into the 90s, accumulating 12 Emmy nominations and 7 wins[22:09]
By the 1990s, they were filming in her home kitchen in Cambridge, which Paul had designed to double as a kitchen and TV studio[22:06]
Paul was heavily involved-sometimes on the floor with cue cards-and he designed the original patch for the Trois Gourmands school[22:13]

Why Julia Child was so beloved and her broader impact

Introducing fresh ingredients to mid-century America

Josh explains that when Julia began teaching Americans, many home cooks relied heavily on canned soup and processed ingredients, even using canned soup as a recipe component[22:56]
Julia insisted on fresh ingredients-fresh herbs, quality butter, and good meats-making them non-negotiable in her recipes[23:07]
She also taught that food should stand on its own: herbs should complement, not cover; you shouldn't drown a sole meunière in A1 sauce[22:49]
Chuck and Josh joke about A1 but underline her message: enjoy the taste of the main ingredient, not just the condiments[23:13]

Not a food snob: high-low tastes

Despite championing high-quality ingredients, Julia was not a snob about food[23:01]
Chuck notes that she enjoyed In-N-Out Burger, used Hellmann's mayonnaise in tuna salad, and supposedly liked Costco hot dogs[24:19]
Josh endorses Costco hot dogs, describing them as having a distinctive, appealing flavor comparable to a great school-lunch hot dog[23:32]

Normalizing wine and other drinks

Josh says American wine consumption at the time was dominated by jug wines that now occupy bottom grocery shelves[23:49]
Julia reintroduced Americans to better wine and normalized drinking it with meals by doing so on camera[24:43]
He notes that sometimes she got slightly tipsy on air but was never sloppy, and that her visible enjoyment of good wine helped spur interest in quality wines[23:49]
Chuck mentions she also liked beer and an "upside-down martini" with proportions of vermouth and gin swapped, resulting in more vermouth and a lower-alcohol drink[24:19]
Josh connects her influence to the later dominance of California wine, saying her normalization of wine helped shift tastes[24:43]

Humor, myths, and pop culture portrayals

She was known for her humor and warmth, and several urban legends grew around her TV mishaps[24:47]
One famous but false story claims she once dropped a raw turkey on the floor, picked it up, and cooked it on camera; Snopes traced this myth back at least to 1989[24:56]
The closest real incident they could find was her flipping a potato pancake onto the countertop, crumbling it, then saying "when you're in the kitchen nobody can see you" and reshaping it in the pan[25:09]
Another myth that she drank wine straight from the bottle on air is also false; she clarified she would never do that on TV[25:19]
Chuck references the famous 1978 Saturday Night Live sketch where Dan Aykroyd played Julia, cutting his finger with blood spraying everywhere[25:45]
• He notes the sketch was inspired by a real incident a month earlier where she cut herself while cooking with Jacques Pépin on Tom Snyder's 'Tomorrow' show
Julia reportedly loved the SNL sketch, kept a videotape of it, showed it to people, and sometimes acted it out word-for-word at parties[25:19]
Josh mentions her appearances on David Letterman, where she held her own comedically; in one clip she cooks a kind of steak tartare with ground beef and melted cheese using an acetylene torch[25:55]
• Chuck recalls feeling bad when Letterman made fun of the dish and spat it out, and Julia responded politely that maybe she could serve something he'd like next time

Butter, moderation, and food philosophy

Julia was renowned for her love of butter and taught America to cook during eras obsessed with low-fat and fat-free eating[26:16]
She was criticized for her rich recipes, but she countered with lines like, "If you're afraid of butter, use cream," which is at least as rich[26:16]
Her philosophy was not to gorge on butter constantly, but to use real ingredients when you cook and savor every bite[27:01]
Josh quotes her saying, via Oscar Wilde, "Everything in moderation, including moderation"[26:58]
Chuck offers a home-cooking tip: use olive oil for health, but add a single pat of butter to the pan to add richness[27:06]

Iconic recipes and cultural legacy through food

Overview of 'Mastering the Art of French Cooking' volumes

Josh notes that volumes one and two of 'Mastering the Art of French Cooking' together have 781 recipes[27:55]
He says that if you look up lists of "Julia Child's best recipes," the same dishes recur across many sites[27:32]

Boeuf bourguignon and 'Julie & Julia'

Chuck brings up the film 'Julie & Julia', about Julie Powell's project to cook every recipe from the book while blogging about it[28:38]
He describes the movie as really good, starring Amy Adams as Julie Powell and Meryl Streep as Julia Child, directed by Nora Ephron[27:06]
He notes Julie Powell died in her late 40s and that the film interweaves her story with Julia's[27:40]
In the movie, and in real life, boeuf bourguignon (a red-wine beef stew) is presented as one of the key, deceptively simple but spectacular dishes from the book[28:38]

Other signature recipes

They list quiche Lorraine as another classic Julia dish that became ubiquitous, even sold by the slice in grocery stores[28:13]
• Ingredients mentioned include bacon, onions, egg, cream, cheeses, and spices
Josh mentions that in the book she instructs blanching American bacon to remove its smoky flavor so it doesn't dominate other flavors[28:38]
They highlight cassoulet, a classic French "bean feast" with pork, beans, poultry, sausage, and a dark brown crust[29:04]
• Josh quotes Julia calling cassoulet everyday peasant fare but "ambrosia for a gastronome," saying its ideal eater is a 300-pound blocking back who has been splitting firewood for 12 hours on a sub-zero Manitoba day
Chocolate mousse is cited as another hallmark recipe; Josh says she once had it fail to set properly on air[29:36]
• He notes the recipe uses only a few ingredients-rum, chocolate, coffee, egg whites-and relies on technique like folding and whipping to achieve a silky, airy texture
They both profess their love for French onion soup; Chuck says if it's on a menu, he always orders it, as well as French dip sandwiches[29:26]
Josh describes making French onion soup at home as not hard but time-consuming, requiring patience to fully caramelize onions; he insists it is worth it[28:59]

Side digressions about kids' food preferences and cooking

Chuck shares that his daughter loves ketchup and sometimes uses it to help her eat foods she otherwise wouldn't[30:08]
They discuss her liking peas (even frozen peas as a snack) but disliking broccoli; Josh says he hates peas intensely but also dislikes broccoli[30:27]
Chuck says his daughter surprisingly came to love sushi by stealing bites of his orders and now eats nigiri and various rolls, often without soy sauce[30:25]
Josh notes that eating sushi without soy sauce aligns with Japanese norms they discussed in a prior sushi episode[30:44]

Julia Child's later life, death, and memorial

End of life and community reaction

Chuck says Julia died in August 2004 at her home in Montecito, California, just short of her 92nd birthday, from liver failure[31:11]
Josh quotes chef Alain Ducasse (whom he identifies as the only three-star Michelin chef in the world) saying that on her death, the community of cooks felt like orphans[31:22]

Neptune Memorial Reef underwater cemetery

Josh describes Julia's unusual burial: her cremated remains were mixed with concrete to form a headstone placed underwater[31:48]
He says this headstone is part of the Neptune Memorial Reef, an acre-long underwater cemetery off Key Biscayne, Florida[32:35]
The plaque on her underwater headstone bears a knife and fork and the quotation, "Fat gives things flavor"[31:53]
Chuck remarks that it would be fun for a scuba diver to encounter that memorial[32:03]

Closing comments and listener mail

Farewell to Julia segment

Chuck says "RIP Julia Child and thanks for everything," and Josh adds that their berets are off to her[32:29]

Listener mail: calculating the podcast's "depth" in Olympic pools and Big Macs

Chuck reads an email from listener Nathan Wenger (or Winger) from Carmel, Indiana, who did "nerd math" on how many Olympic pools deep and Big Macs tall the show would be[32:41]
Nathan estimates over 2,600 episodes with an average length of 55 minutes and a speaking rate of 130 words per minute[32:36]
He assumes an average of six letters per word for this podcast and a 12-point font height of 0.167 inches to convert spoken content into inches of text[32:47]
Based on those assumptions, he calculates one episode equals the depth of 238,333 Olympic-sized swimming pools, "a bit short" of Josh's earlier guess of 10-15 million[33:02]
Nathan also computes that the show's total text height equals about 7.745 million Big Macs stacked at 2.5 inches each[33:15]
Josh and Chuck thank Nathan for the detailed math, joke about their own book's brief two-week run on the bestseller list by comparison to claims about Julia's book, and close the show[33:15]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Starting late does not preclude mastery; Julia Child only began cooking seriously in her late 30s yet transformed an entire nation's approach to food through sustained curiosity and hard work.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What skill or interest have you quietly written off as "too late" to pursue that might still be possible if you committed now?
  • • How could you structure the next six months so you consistently practice one new craft or domain you care about, as Julia did with cooking?
  • • When will you set aside an hour this week to take a concrete first step-such as a class, book, or mentor conversation-toward a skill you've long postponed?
2

Demystifying expertise by explaining every step, tool, and term makes complex domains accessible and empowers beginners instead of intimidating them.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your work or life do you assume background knowledge that might be confusing or alienating to newcomers?
  • • How could you redesign one process, document, or presentation so that a complete novice could follow it without feeling stupid?
  • • What specific jargon or "shortcuts" could you replace with clear explanations the next time you teach, delegate, or share information?
3

Openly embracing mistakes-rather than hiding them-builds trust, lowers the stakes for learning, and encourages others to experiment without paralyzing fear of failure.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How do you typically react, internally and externally, when you make a visible mistake in front of others?
  • • In what current project could you deliberately share a misstep and what you learned from it to normalize experimentation for your team or peers?
  • • What is one area of your life where you could treat the next inevitable mistake as data to iterate on instead of a verdict on your ability?
4

Focusing on quality ingredients and mindful enjoyment-rather than restriction or excess-creates a healthier, more sustainable relationship with pleasure and consumption.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your life do you oscillate between overindulgence and strict denial instead of practicing thoughtful moderation?
  • • How might prioritizing quality over quantity-whether in food, media, or purchases-change how satisfied you feel day to day?
  • • What is one habit this week where you could slow down and savor the experience more fully instead of consuming it on autopilot?
5

Supportive partnerships can act as powerful force multipliers, providing encouragement, infrastructure, and collaboration that amplify individual talent.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in your life currently acts as a genuine partner in your growth, and how are you actively nurturing that relationship?
  • • How could you better share your goals and needs with a collaborator or loved one so they can support you as effectively as Paul supported Julia?
  • • What is one concrete way you can show up this month as a more enabling partner for someone else's ambitions?

Episode Summary - Notes by Harper

Julia Child, la Grandes Gourmande
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