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Pivot

OpenAI Backtracks, Elon's Netflix Boycott, and Instagram Safety Features

Published October 7, 2025
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About This Episode

Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway discuss U.S. immigration crackdowns under President Trump, including National Guard deployments, ICE raids, and the use of masked agents, arguing these tactics are authoritarian and designed to inflame division. They examine how tech platforms and algorithms amplify rage, debate OpenAI's Sora copyright policy and its impact on Hollywood and creative workers, and analyze Elon Musk's call to boycott Netflix, SpaceX's Chinese funding, and SpaceX's growing power in satellite-based mobile service. The episode also covers Instagram's inadequate teen safety measures, the mental health impact of social media on youth, and a Trump-era higher education compact that would reshape university admissions, ideology on campus, foreign enrollment, and pricing.

Topics Covered

Immigration policy and border security Social media and online platforms Data privacy and surveillance Artificial intelligence AI governance Streaming media industry SpaceX and rocketry U.S.-China competition Online safety Education system

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Kara and Scott argue that Trump's deployment of National Guard troops and aggressive ICE raids in U.S. cities are more about fascist-style intimidation and division than real crime control or border security.
  • They criticize tech platforms for both aiding immigration enforcement through data and simultaneously profiting from rage-inducing content that turns ordinary Americans against each other.
  • OpenAI's initial plan to force copyright holders to opt out of Sora is framed as outright theft of creative work, prompting calls for lawsuits and stronger pushback from Hollywood and other IP owners.
  • Scott warns that Los Angeles's creative middle class is being hollowed out by Netflix's production arbitrage and AI, shifting wealth and opportunity toward Northern California's tech sector.
  • Elon Musk's campaign to cancel Netflix over a canceled animated show with a trans character is dismissed as culture-war posturing that is unlikely to hurt Netflix because people value the service too highly.
  • Revelations that SpaceX has routed Chinese investments through offshore hubs and the acquisition of significant spectrum via EchoStar highlight the company's growing geopolitical and telecom power.
  • Scott and Kara argue that Instagram and other platforms cannot realistically make social media safe for teens, and advocate outright age bans for young users and for synthetic relationships.
  • They dissect a proposed Trump higher-ed compact that would tie federal funding to ideological balance, limits on foreign students, and price controls, calling it poorly designed thought control and bad economics.
  • Kara labels OpenAI and similar firms as rapacious information thieves when they build businesses on others' copyrighted material without proper consent or compensation.
  • They close by emphasizing the need to resist grim fatalism by creating valuable, hopeful work and fighting back constructively against harmful policies and technologies.

Podcast Notes

Introduction, personal updates, and gender roles

Opening banter and aging sleep patterns

Scott describes waking up at 4:18 a.m. every night and feeling like a ghost wandering the house[2:35]
• He jokes about watching endless World War II content, saying he'll watch anything with his "favorite actor, Hitler," and calling himself "officially 100 years old"
Kara notes men Scott's age are often obsessed with Rome or Hitler content, and Scott says he's not into Rome[3:04]

Kara's mermaid birthday party and observed gender differences

Kara recounts a mermaid-themed party for her child Clara where all the girls arrived in elaborate mermaid outfits[3:22]
• She describes a variety of mermaid costumes with spangles and different styles
She notes that most of the boys showed up in superhero costumes, highlighting how strongly gendered preferences still show up among kids[3:33]
• Kara says if anyone doubts gender exists, they should host a party and watch boys and girls choose between dolls and cars
Description of the party: treasure hunt, Amanda baking a beautiful cake, and Kara power-washing the yard[3:58]
• Kara frames power-washing as "fun" for her, contrasting with Amanda's baking role

Household gender roles and division of labor

Kara acknowledges she and Amanda have fallen into classic gender roles despite disliking the idea[4:03]
• She says Saul hands her broken objects or items needing batteries, with "Mama will fix it" as the expectation
Scott calls the alliance between masculine and feminine energy "the best alliance in history"[4:29]

Private clubs, Halloween costumes, and mating markets in New York

Scott's Halloween costume and New York private members club scene

Scott debates costume choices, rejecting Larry David because he thinks it won't attract attention from "hot women"[6:01]
• He decides to go as Deadpool "after the fire" with extensive scar makeup, and wants to attend elite private clubs
He describes a "bloodbath" of competition among New York private clubs, saying AI competition is nothing compared to it[6:24]
Scott outlines the private club hierarchy: Soho House as a Toyota-like, good value for the young; Zero Bond as a "Mercedes" started by entrepreneur Scott Sartiano[7:02]
• He notes Zero Bond's success reflects the huge concentration of wealth in the top 1%
Scott worries about where young people without money can go socially if everything becomes members-only[7:34]

DC clubs and the economics/politics of private spaces

Kara mentions DC equivalents like The Ned and a Trump-linked club opened with Chamath Palihapitiya and others[7:51]
• She says those clubs have dropped membership prices dramatically, implying weak demand, especially for Trump-associated venues
Scott bluntly states private clubs are driven by "rich men and the hot women that like rich men"[8:13]
• He recalls arriving in New York at 22 as a Morgan Stanley analyst and finding he was invisible in the dating market compared to 35-year-old hedge fund managers
He argues New York is optimized for two groups: wealthy men and very attractive women; for others it can be "soul crushing"[9:18]

Kara's preference for bars and lounges over clubs

Kara describes enjoying more modest bars in DC, like an old Georgetown townhouse bar with creative drinks and another bar full of people playing games[10:01]
• She notes these bars host a mix of ages and a casual, welcoming atmosphere rather than exclusivity

Trump immigration crackdown, National Guard deployments, and ICE raids

Overview of Trump's escalation on immigration enforcement

Kara explains Trump authorized 300 Illinois National Guard troops to Chicago, with Governor J.B. Pritzker warning raids are turning the city into a war zone[11:33]
• She frames this as Trump "creating problems" rather than solving them
She details Trump's repeated attempts to send National Guard troops to Portland using different states' units, repeatedly blocked by a federal judge he appointed[11:42]
• She highlights that Texas National Guard troops are also in the mix for Oregon and Illinois with Governor Greg Abbott's blessing
Kara criticizes Abbott's inflammatory rhetoric, including suggested comments about Portland, saying it's "none of your fucking business"[12:08]
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem is mentioned for promising ICE presence at the Super Bowl, with Kara noting that event's high cost to attend[12:22]

Scott's political framing: socialism, liberalism, and fascism

Scott contrasts socialism (redistribution via state ownership of production) and capitalism's uneven prosperity, calling the current U.S. administration the most socialist economically in history[12:50]
He defines liberalism as maximizing liberty, including search-and-seizure limits, property rights, and gun rights within a liberal democracy[13:39]
He defines fascism as convincing citizens that the enemy is within and threatening their way of life, asserting that current immigration actions fit this pattern[13:55]
• He notes crime isn't historically high now, so the "crime is out of control" narrative is misleading

Critique of ICE raids, militarization, and masks

Scott says using federal troops, who are not trained as police, does little for real crime control and mostly intimidates citizens[14:06]
He would rather see U.S. troops used proactively in places like Ukraine (supporting missile systems) or as peacekeepers in Gaza than patrolling U.S. cities[14:39]
Scott argues images of masked ICE agents in U.S. cities will be seen as a dark chapter akin in "flavor" (though not scale) to Japanese internment camps[18:32]
• He objects to normalization of masks for federal agents, saying judges and juries face real risks without masks, so masked enforcement encourages "depraved, vile behavior"
He suggests people signing up for ICE now likely harbor hostility toward immigrants, given the role's nature in this climate[19:32]
Kara references a video of an ICE agent violently taking down a bystander who was simply standing on a sidewalk, calling it excessive and shocking[19:06]

Impact on judges and escalation against the judiciary

Kara warns that judges are under siege, with Stephen Miller labeling them "insurrectionists" when they rule against Trump policies[20:13]
• She notes a judge's house was burned down after such a ruling, and says Miller should one day go to jail for stoking anger and doubt
Kara emphasizes judges cannot wear masks and must publish detailed opinions while ICE agents conceal their identities with masks[21:18]

Tech platforms, ICE-tracking apps, surveillance, and social media-driven division

ICE-tracking apps and platform takedowns

Kara reports that Apple and Google removed apps that let users flag ICE sightings, including a widely used app called Iceblock, after pressure from Attorney General Pam Bondi[21:48]
• The Iceblock creator accused Apple of caving to an "authoritarian regime" by complying with takedown requests
Kara mentions other location-warning apps like one in San Francisco that tracks parking meter officers, which also angered local authorities[23:59]

ICE's social media monitoring and government surveillance capabilities

Kara says ICE is hiring contractors to scan Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube for leads and to monitor people's social feeds[23:18]
Scott says he sides with tech companies on obeying lawful takedown letters from attorneys general[24:23]
• He argues they are obligated to follow the law, and the real issue is a lack of platform diversity and overcentralization of power
Scott supports strong U.S. surveillance capacities, praising American and Israeli abilities to hack phones, but also acknowledges the right to secrets[24:57]
• He says he likes that the "good guys" have powerful spying tools, but Kara's point that people should be able to keep secrets has changed how he views privacy

Undocumented workers, employers, and economic hypocrisy

Scott calls "undocumented worker" a misnomer, noting migrants have plenty of documents-phone contracts, driver's licenses, W-2s, bank accounts-that enable corporations and banks to profit from them[23:18]
He argues if the U.S. were serious about immigration, it would heavily fine employers, because migrants come for jobs U.S. citizens often refuse[23:56]
• He cites low-wage elder care and construction work as examples of jobs many domestic workers will not take

Pope's comments on immigration and decency

Kara praises the Pope for urging Catholics to welcome migrants and decrying inhuman treatment of immigrants in the U.S.[22:38]
• She says his intervention is about basic decency rather than left-right politics

Algorithms, rage, and perceived political division

Scott's view: Americans are being divided, not inherently divided

Scott quotes Thomas Friedman saying Americans are not that divided but are "being divided" by forces like technology and leaders[26:55]
He describes seeing clips of families separated in ICE raids on social media and feeling he "fucking hate[s] America" for 30 seconds afterward[26:05]
• He notes platforms pair such content with profitable ads, creating a "one-two punch" of a cruel administration and rage-driven algorithms
He believes that in-person, Americans across political spectrums are generally lovely, but online environments distort that reality[26:55]

Kara's call for regulation and control of big tech

Kara cites leaders like Macron now warning about social media harms, arguing tech firms should not be trusted with societal decision-making[27:22]
She calls users willing addicts and compares platforms to heroin, warning that without regulation or taxation the outcome will be dire[27:31]
Kara says the Trump administration's approach to tech was to accept bribes and let companies do whatever they want, further empowering them[27:39]

OpenAI's Sora, copyright backlash, and Hollywood's future

OpenAI reverses Sora copyright stance

Kara reports OpenAI will now give copyright holders more control over how their characters appear in Sora, rather than forcing them to opt out[31:34]
• She notes the company initially required copyright holders to opt out and spoke vaguely about "trying" to share revenue with those who opted in
Scott mocks OpenAI's opt-out logic by analogizing it to hiring hackers to reverse engineer their own models, pointing out OpenAI never "opted out" of being hacked[32:38]
• He extends the analogy to disassembling iPhones and stealing from Apple and Foxconn since they didn't opt out, exposing the absurdity of OpenAI's framing
Scott praises Adobe's more ethical approach to generative AI that licenses training data from rights holders rather than indiscriminately scraping[33:12]
• He argues this moment is critical for creative industries to push back hard against AI firms that "steal" content

Hollywood economics, LA's decline, and AI's impact on creative work

Scott cites data showing Los Angeles is becoming "the next Detroit with better weather" as production moves elsewhere and AI threatens jobs[34:02]
He argues Netflix and AI are hollowing out LA's creative middle class-caterers, makeup artists, lighters, gaffers, animators, costume designers-who earned $80k-$250k[34:49]
Scott criticizes the WGA strike leadership as "the stupidest people in corporate America," claiming the strike transferred wealth from workers to Netflix and hurt bargaining power[34:29]
He notes Netflix arbitrages production by moving projects to tax-credit-rich locations like Atlanta, New Jersey, Vancouver, Budapest, and Pinewood Studios in the UK[35:35]
Scott predicts AI will take over many credited roles listed at the end of films, seeing those credits as AI's next big opportunity[36:01]

Moviegoing vs streaming and Taylor Swift's box office success

Scott reviews a Leonardo DiCaprio and Benicio Del Toro film (with a strong performance by the actress playing DiCaprio's daughter) but feels it's overrated and more like an indie Sundance movie than a blockbuster[36:29]
He muses that the big screen may become an occasional event like ice skating at Rockefeller Center, rather than a regular habit[38:05]
Kara counters by citing Taylor Swift's concert film success, noting it grossed about $46 million worldwide in a weekend versus $6 million for a Dwayne Johnson film[38:27]
• She points out Taylor cut a direct deal with AMC and keeps a large share of the revenue, illustrating the power of events and superfans
Scott concludes that in a hostile economic environment, only events or extremely compelling content with massive fanbases can reliably make money[39:49]

Policy capture and unequal access to the White House

Scott describes a conference where a big athletic brand CEO complained about tariffs and supply chain shifts from China to Vietnam and Malaysia[40:06]
• Another attendee offered to coach them on communicating with the White House, prompting a journalist to lament that America now runs on rich people coaching less rich people on how to get favors from government
Scott ties this to OpenAI and other tech giants currying favor with Trump to secure regulatory laxity in exchange for algorithmic support and campaign donations[39:08]

Elon Musk's Netflix boycott, SpaceX and Chinese capital, and satellite-powered mobile disruption

Elon Musk's Netflix boycott over a trans character

Kara notes Elon called for canceling Netflix subscriptions over an animated show featuring a trans character, even though the show (Dead End: Paranormal Park) was canceled in 2023[47:18]
She characterizes Musk as obsessed with trans issues and says he should apologize to his own trans daughter, calling him a terrible parent[48:31]
Scott doubts the boycott will matter, arguing people value Netflix more than their attachment to Tesla or Musk[50:50]
• He suggests Netflix should respond with targeted promotions (like free subscriptions with rival EV purchases), though he acknowledges Ted Sarandos is likely to ignore Musk rather than engage

SpaceX, Chinese investment, and U.S. capital flows

Kara cites testimony that SpaceX has accepted money from Chinese investors via offshore hubs, despite its close military ties[47:40]
Scott reiterates his longstanding view that he generally welcomes foreign capital, including from China, provided governance prevents control over critical media or infrastructure[49:26]
• He highlights that many countries like Argentina lack functioning mortgage markets due to scarce capital, underlining how U.S. prosperity depends on capital inflows

SpaceX's EchoStar spectrum acquisition and the threat to telcos

Kara raises concerns about SpaceX's acquisition of EchoStar's spectrum rights, enabling satellite-to-smartphone connectivity without terrestrial infrastructure[49:15]
Scott says he would hate to be Verizon or AT&T, noting how MVNOs can rent major networks and undercut them on price and features[52:24]
• He explains Andrew Yang's Noble Mobile (an MVNO he invests in) that runs on T-Mobile's network and offers incentives to use phones less, versus his own $400-$600/month AT&T bill
He argues AT&T and Verizon, with massive fixed costs, are poorly positioned against leaner competitors and new satellite options[53:21]
• Kara shares that she too pays large family phone bills and feels unclear on what value she's really getting, seeing opportunity for disruption

Instagram teen safety failures and social media's impact on youth

Findings from Meta whistleblower report on teen safety features

Kara cites a report by a former Meta whistleblower and nonprofits that evaluated 47 of Meta's 53 safety features and found most were missing or ineffective[54:11]
Meta called the report misleading and dangerously speculative, but Kara sees it as consistent with longstanding patterns[54:19]
Kara argues platforms cannot realistically make social networks safe for kids at scale and that their cost structures and incentives prevent truly robust protections[54:32]

Scott's policy prescription: age bans and banning synthetic relationships

Scott proposes a straightforward rule: no one under 16 should be allowed on social media platforms at all[55:15]
He adds that no one under 18 should be allowed to engage in synthetic relationships (AI companions, etc.)[55:33]
He rejects reliance on parental controls and individual parenting decisions, likening this to alcohol or pornography, which require collective regulation and age gating[55:44]
• He notes evidence that when social media moved to mobile, teen outcomes worsened, and references Jonathan Haidt's book "The Anxious Generation" for documentation
Scott points out that if one parent unilaterally removes their kid from Snapchat while others remain, that child may become more isolated and depressed, so individual action is not enough[55:56]

Kara's anecdotes on phones in schools and personal experience

Kara mentions a CBS piece on phone-free schools where students and staff are noticeably happier without phones[56:10]
She shares that one of her older sons texted her, realizing he was on his phone too much and that it was making him "crazy," effectively self-diagnosing the harm[57:43]
Kara notes her Threads feed has mostly cooking and ASMR, with little news, making it calmer compared to doom-scrolling environments[58:10]

Trump higher-education compact: admissions, ideology, foreign students, and pricing

Scott's overview of Trump's proposed compact for universities

Scott explains Trump is threatening to tie federal funding to a compact where colleges must meet certain conditions on admissions, campus ideology, hiring, foreign students, and prices[1:00:58]
He believes the federal government can attach conditions to funding, but changes should be legislated through Congress as laws applicable to all institutions[1:00:58]
• He notes research funding has historically been one of the best investments ever, fostering breakthroughs in pharma and technology

Merit, diversity, and thought control on campus

On admissions, Scott supports making decisions blind to gender, ethnicity, race, and political views, favoring affirmative action based on income instead of observable traits[1:01:54]
He agrees universities have done a poor job supporting ideological diversity but argues attempts to legislate a specific mix of viewpoints amount to thought control[1:02:40]
Scott suggests eliminating tenure would do more to improve faculty quality and diversity than micromanaging hiring quotas[1:03:32]

Limits on foreign students and economic self-sabotage

Scott singles out a rule capping foreign undergraduates at 15% as especially damaging, noting it would disproportionately affect graduate programs where foreign enrollment is high[1:05:00]
He argues the world's ultimate luxury is sending kids to elite U.S. universities, often paying around half a million dollars including living costs, with margins above 90%[1:05:14]
• Foreign students not only inject money but return home loving America and create valuable international ties, so limiting them undermines U.S. soft power and exports

Price controls vs competition and breaking the cartel

Scott opposes proposed five-year tuition caps, saying he hates price controls from both Trump and Biden administrations[1:05:59]
He recommends breaking the higher-ed cartel instead: banning early decision (which removes students' ability to comparison shop), stopping tuition increases in lockstep, and prohibiting financial-aid data sharing[1:06:29]
• He suggests tying tax-free status to growing freshman classes at least as fast as population growth; otherwise universities become hedge funds with classrooms
Scott concludes that because the compact is not legislated, a future president (Newsom, Moore, Beshear, etc.) could simply reverse everything, making it unstable and largely performative[1:07:24]

Wins and fails: AI copyright theft, Taylor Swift, positivity, and creative exports

Kara's fail: OpenAI and copyright theft

Kara brands OpenAI's Sora posture as "ridiculous thievery," likening it to behavior she has long criticized at Facebook and Google[1:07:49]
She insists copyright must be respected and that building businesses atop others' work without consent is outright stealing[1:07:56]
• Quoting Walt Mossberg, she calls such firms "rapacious information thieves" and argues creators shouldn't have their jobs destroyed and their seed corn stolen simultaneously

Kara's wins: Taylor Swift, the Pope, and a positive YouTube greeter

Kara celebrates Taylor Swift's box office success and praises the new album, arguing male critics can't bring themselves to simply give her an unqualified win despite consistently great reviews[1:09:44]
She highlights the Pope again as a moral voice advocating humane immigration policies[1:09:49]
Kara recommends Troy Hawke, a YouTuber who greets and compliments people, as an example of social media being used to uplift rather than inflame[1:09:40]

Kara's call to avoid "grim lamentation" and win by being great

Kara quotes Homer: "There is not any advantage to be won from grim lamentation," urging listeners not to succumb to despair[1:10:53]
She encourages fighting back against ICE and harmful tech not by doom-scrolling but by creating valuable work and hopeful alternatives that people actually want[1:11:29]
• Her motto is to "win by being great," whether in art, business, or activism, rather than just complaining

Cracker Barrel logo controversy and Scott's Profit Brand Strategy backstory

Scott's former firm and the politicized logo change

Kara notes that Profit, the brand strategy firm Scott founded, was fired by Cracker Barrel after recommending a logo change that became politicized[1:11:22]
Scott recounts founding Profit Brand Strategy after leaving Morgan Stanley and business school, growing it to hundreds of employees before selling his stake[1:11:22]
• He jokes he is like Trotsky at the firm-his name isn't mentioned, and he wasn't invited to a 20-year reunion despite starting the company at 26

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Unchecked enforcement power, especially when combined with anonymity (like masks) and incendiary rhetoric, invites abuse and erodes trust in institutions; accountability mechanisms must be built into any authority that uses force.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your organization or community do people hold significant power with too little transparency or accountability?
  • • How might you redesign one process you control so that decisions with big impacts are more traceable and reviewable?
  • • What specific step could you take this month to shine light on or challenge an opaque practice that worries you?
2

Many social and economic problems are fueled more by structural incentives than by individual behavior, so durable solutions come from targeting the root incentives (like employers and regulators) rather than scapegoating vulnerable people.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What current problem in your world are you mostly blaming on individuals that might actually be driven by underlying incentives or rules?
  • • How could you realign incentives in your team, company, or family so that the desired behavior becomes the easiest or most rewarding one?
  • • Who are the real leverage points (organizations, decision-makers, systems) behind an issue you care about, and what is one way you could influence them?
3

Platforms and algorithms are optimized for engagement, not well-being, so if you don't set hard boundaries (personally and collectively) they will systematically pull you toward outrage, addiction, and division.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How do you currently feel after 20 minutes of scrolling your favorite app, and what does that reveal about its impact on you?
  • • What explicit rules or limits around social media and screen time could you implement for yourself or your household over the next 30 days?
  • • Where could you push for institutional changes-at work, in schools, or in policy-that reduce harmful engagement incentives instead of relying only on individual willpower?
4

When emerging technologies build on top of other people's creative or informational work, insisting on clear consent and fair compensation is essential if you want a sustainable ecosystem instead of a one-way extraction by a few powerful firms.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which of your creations, data, or expertise are currently being used by others without your explicit permission or fair compensation?
  • • How might you better document, contract, or license your work so its value is protected as new tools and platforms emerge?
  • • What alliances or collective actions (professional groups, lawsuits, standards bodies) could you support to strengthen creators' bargaining power in your field?
5

For harms that operate at the level of environment and network effects-like social media's impact on kids-piecemeal individual efforts are rarely enough; you need coordinated rules and norms that reshape the entire playing field.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are you relying on individual willpower (yours or others') to resist a system that is structurally pushing in the opposite direction?
  • • How could you work with other parents, colleagues, or stakeholders to agree on shared rules that protect the most vulnerable, rather than acting alone?
  • • What is one concrete policy change (in a school, organization, or platform) you would advocate for to create a healthier baseline environment for young people?

Episode Summary - Notes by Sawyer

OpenAI Backtracks, Elon's Netflix Boycott, and Instagram Safety Features
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