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Pivot

ABC Pulls Jimmy Kimmel, Pam Bondi's Free Speech Mess, and Trump Sues The New York Times

Published September 19, 2025
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About This Episode

Hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway discuss ABC's decision to pull Jimmy Kimmel Live after a segment about the Charlie Kirk shooting, criticizing pressure from FCC commissioner Brendan Carr, conservative station owners, and Disney CEO Bob Iger as an attack on free speech. They examine Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments about targeting "hate speech," Trump's defamation lawsuit against The New York Times, media consolidation, and Scott's idea of economic pushback by affluent consumers. The episode also covers FBI Director Kash Patel's combative congressional testimony, NVIDIA's stake in Intel and China's response, Trump's extended TikTok deadline and proposed sale structure, and closes with political chatter about Pete Buttigieg and a prediction of a coming M&A wave.

Topics Covered

Free speech and censorship First Amendment law U.S. politics and elections Media trust and propaganda Lawsuits Streaming media industry Semiconductors U.S.-China competition Social media and online platforms Antitrust

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway argue that ABC's removal of Jimmy Kimmel Live after comments about the Charlie Kirk shooting reflects capitulation by Disney to political pressure and a broader assault on free speech.
  • They single out FCC commissioner Brendan Carr and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi for threatening rhetoric about speech and "hate speech," characterizing it as authoritarian and hypocritical given prior Republican positions on cancel culture.
  • Scott contends that traditional broadcast networks are declining in influence and predicts a migration of talent like Kimmel and Colbert to streaming, podcasts, and independent platforms less vulnerable to government licensing pressure.
  • The hosts discuss FBI Director Kash Patel's evasive congressional testimony about Epstein files as political theater that distracts from serious issues like Putin flying attack drones over NATO territory.
  • They dissect NVIDIA's plan to buy a stake in Intel and China's move to halt orders for NVIDIA chips, raising concerns about industrial policy, reduced competition, and the lack of robust antitrust scrutiny.
  • Trump's repeated extensions of the TikTok divestiture deadline and a proposed deal giving Oracle, Silver Lake, Andreessen Horowitz, and a U.S. government board seat are described as cronyism and a form of economic socialism that fails to solve the underlying security concerns.
  • Scott floats the idea of a national economic strike by high-income consumers and moving capital out of U.S. banks as potential leverage against what he views as authoritarian behavior by the current administration.
  • They suggest that despite political pressure, new media outlets, podcasts, and independent journalists like Don Lemon and The Bulwark are thriving by being more fearless and harder for regulators like the FCC to control.
  • The episode ends with speculation about future mega-acquisitions by cash-rich tech and AI winners, including the possibility of companies like Disney being bought by larger players such as Apple.
  • Kara previews an interview with Pete Buttigieg, using his experience as a gay parent to reflect on changing civil rights and political prospects for 2028.

Podcast Notes

Show introduction, host banter, and setup

Hosts check in from different locations and joke about cancellation

Kara introduces the show as Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media Podcast Network[1:58]
• She jokes that she has not been canceled "yet" and asks Scott about his status
Scott describes his travel and current setting in Nashville[2:15]
• He was in London about 22 hours earlier, then New York, now Nashville
• He is staying across from the Grand Hyatt and JW Marriott, watching a parking lot being torn down by cranes, which he finds oddly relaxing and metaphorical for U.S. society
Kara mentions being back in D.C. after teaching at University of Michigan[2:49]
• She was in Ann Arbor doing her class at the University of Michigan and interviewing Pete Buttigieg

Banter about Scott speaking to Kara's class and remote appearances

Kara invites Scott to talk to her class at Michigan, at least remotely[3:06]
• Scott refuses in-person but agrees he might do it remotely, while joking he is distracted by the demolition outside

Humor about Jeffrey Toobin, masturbation, and remote work mishaps

Scott references Jeffrey Toobin's infamous incident during a remote meeting[3:28]
• He argues remote work will have "externalities" and says he didn't care much about what Toobin did, speculating it was unintentional while on camera
Kara admonishes Scott to stop looking out the window and to leave his video on so he doesn't masturbate during the podcast[4:12]
• Scott says he is not in the mood and again mentions watching strange TikToks like large dogs eating whole foods, which Kara finds weird

Main story: ABC pulls Jimmy Kimmel Live and free speech fallout

Clip of Jimmy Kimmel's comments about the Charlie Kirk shooting

Kimmel criticizes the "MAGA gang" for trying to portray Charlie Kirk's killer as anything other than one of them[5:23]
• He says they are doing everything to score political points from the murder
Kimmel references Biden flying flags at half-staff and plays a clip of Trump reacting to Kirk's death[5:34]
• Trump in the clip offers condolences on the loss of "your friend Charlie Kirk" and then immediately talks about a new White House ballroom construction
Kimmel jokes that Trump is at the "fourth stage of grief, construction"[6:05]
Kara notes Kimmel had posted condolences to the Kirk family and gun violence victims after the killing[6:14]
• She emphasizes he sent love to the Kirk family on social media, countering the narrative that he was celebrating the death

Political and corporate pressure leading to Kimmel's removal

Kara describes FCC chair Brendan Carr's reaction to Kimmel's comments[6:17]
• She calls Carr "the most unctuous toady" in the Trump administration and says he labeled Kimmel's words "the sickest conduct possible" in a right-wing podcast interview
• Carr suggested ABC's broadcast license was at risk, saying "we can do this the easy way or the hard way," which Kara interprets as a clear threat
Conservative station owners Nexstar and Sinclair respond[6:53]
• Kara says Nexstar, which owns several ABC affiliates and is seeking FCC approval for a $6.2 billion Tegna acquisition, announced it would drop Kimmel's show
• She notes Sinclair Broadcast Group then demanded Kimmel apologize and donate personally to the Kirk family and Turning Point USA
Disney executives' decision[7:12]
• Kara reports Disney CEO Bob Iger and TV chief Dana Walden decided to take Kimmel off the air, and that Trump publicly celebrated and urged NBC to pull Seth Meyers and Jimmy Fallon

Kara and Scott react to Disney's move and free speech implications

Kara attacks Iger's role and emphasizes focus on Brendan Carr and Trump[7:46]
• She calls the situation a "shit rolls downhill" scenario in which Carr and Trump created pressure that led to corporate capitulation
• Kara says she is excited for lawsuits because government officials are quashing free speech and goes out of her way to distinguish this from Sinclair and Nexstar's corporate rights
Scott compares Bob Iger to Neville Chamberlain[8:30]
• He says Iger will go down as Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater minus the dignity, defining him with the word "appeasement"
• Scott speculates Iger probably regrets coming back to Disney and calls this a terrible footnote on his legacy
Audience and economics of Jimmy Kimmel Live[10:02]
• Scott notes only 12% of Kimmel's viewers are 18-49, about 220,000 viewers in that demo, down 10% from last year and two-thirds from 2015
• He says the show averages about 1.8 million viewers a night, implying roughly 1.6 million are over 50, and mentions about 180 employees
• He argues canceling Kimmel might make economic sense but still condemns Iger for not "doing the right thing" given his wealth and reliance on free speech and rule of law
Kara's personal disappointment with Bob Iger and his family context[11:18]
• Kara says she knows Iger well and has interviewed him dozens of times, but now feels embarrassed for him and even for his wife, who runs a journalism school
• She notes his wife's role makes the situation especially awkward, even though it is not his wife's decision
• Kara acknowledges Iger faced pressure from right-wing figures like Elon Musk and Ike Perlmutter and worried about safety when neo-Nazis protested at Disney, but insists he still had a duty to stand up

Brendan Carr's prior free speech statements contrasted with current behavior

Kara cites Carr's past quotes defending free speech[11:11]
• From 2019, she quotes Carr saying the government should not censor speech it doesn't like and that the FCC lacks a roaming mandate to police speech in the name of "public interest"
• From 2023, she quotes him saying free speech is a counterweight to government control and that censorship is an authoritarian's dream
• From 2022, she reads a Carr statement praising political satire as a key form of free speech often targeted for censorship by those in power
Right-wing reactions and Carr's call for Kimmel donations[13:38]
• Kara mentions J.D. Vance's sarcastic tweet about Marco Rubio hosting ABC's new late night show and calls him an "alleged couch fucker" while specifying she doesn't actually think he had sex with a couch
• She says Carr argued Sinclair has every right to demand Kimmel donate to Turning Point USA and asserts Carr needs to "shut the fuck up" because he's crossing a line as a government official

Pam Bondi's hate speech comments and authoritarian overreach discussion

Pam Bondi's statements about targeting hate speech

Kara introduces Pam Bondi segment and plays a clip from the Katie Miller podcast[15:05]
• Bondi says there is free speech and then hate speech, claims there is "no place" for hate speech in society, and vows law enforcement will "absolutely target" people using hate speech
Tucker Carlson's response regarding hate speech laws[16:04]
• Kara notes Tucker Carlson was fired up about Bondi's comments and plays a clip where he warns against hate speech laws and suggests civil disobedience if they are implemented
• In the clip, Carlson says if authorities can tell you what to say, they can tell you what to think, and insists a free person has a right to express views, even if they hurt people

Scott's legal framing of hate speech and comparison to Charlie Kirk rhetoric

Scott questions whether Kimmel's remarks qualify as hate speech under U.S. law[16:44]
• He points out First Amendment limits for incitement and defamation but argues Kimmel's segment was far from that and says he and Kara have said worse things about Trump on air
Scott cites Charlie Kirk's own extreme statement about Biden[17:23]
• He recalls Kirk said Biden should be incarcerated and possibly executed while in prison, and asks if that counts as hate speech under Bondi's implied standard
Concerns about authoritarian government targeting critics[17:26]
• Scott says Bondi's pledge to target people over speech reflects an authoritarian government targeting critics rather than focusing on legal wrongdoing
• He argues CBS has been sold to Ellison, NBC and ABC are under threat of license loss, and that Trump's acolytes at the FCC and Justice Department are enforcing his will
• He notes J.D. Vance and others are encouraging people to report Kirk critics, framing it as coordinated intimidation

What can be done: economic strike ideas and shift to new media

Scott's argument for economic pressure and national strike

Scott expresses frustration with focusing only on hypocrisy instead of responses[18:52]
• He references repeated right-wing complaints about cancel culture from Fox, Jim Jordan, and Trump, contrasting them with current efforts to cancel Kimmel and others
Scott proposes leveraging consumer and investor power[19:37]
• He cites data that the top 10% of income earners account for 50% of spending and the top 3.3% for 25% of spending, arguing they have more power than any politician
• He suggests ideas from canceling Disney+ to more profound actions like wealthy consumers not buying Christmas presents or staying home to create an economic shock
• Scott considers moving his assets from U.S. banks like Silicon Valley Bank, JPMorgan, Bank of America, Northern Trust, and Goldman Sachs to foreign banks like Lloyd's or HSBC

Kara's view: anticipate attacks and move beyond broadcast

Kara predicts further media targets for Trump allies[21:21]
• She expects NBC, then CNN, to be targeted next, and notes Ellison is trying to buy CNN, which she says should not be allowed but expects will be under Carr
• She warns that anyone needing something from government, especially regulated media, should realize they are a target
Kara emphasizes decline of broadcast and urge to shift to streaming and online[22:21]
• She argues CBS is dying, late night is too expensive with too little audience, and that broadcast networks are no longer truly influential
• Kara suggests companies should get out of broadcast, telling Carr to "do whatever you want" because audiences are on YouTube, Reddit, and streaming instead
• She proposes that if she were Iger, she would move Kimmel to streaming, cut costs, and continue the show there, or Kimmel could launch independently on YouTube or similar platforms

Rise of independent and podcast media in response

Scott highlights growth in podcasting and fearless outlets[23:59]
• He notes their own downloads are up 10% in 30 days and points to Megyn Kelly, Joe Rogan, The Daily, and others as examples of media not scared of Brendan Carr
Don Lemon's new approach and workload praised[24:59]
• Scott praises Don Lemon as "man on the street" doing a fantastic job, working very hard, being forceful yet dignified, and constantly out on the street interviewing people
Other hard-working independent voices mentioned[25:46]
• Scott cites The Bulwark and Tim Miller as producing large amounts of content and being "totally unafraid," working extremely hard in this environment
• He argues that fear-driven constraints on NBC and ABC will push audiences to these newer outlets, so overall information access may actually improve

Broader cultural reaction and identity aspects of the Kimmel case

Kara's view on who is now being targeted

Kara suggests people may be more upset because straight white men are now being targeted[26:45]
• She notes there have been attacks on Black women and trans people for some time, but says going after figures like Kimmel seems to have galvanized broader media outrage
Scott pushes back slightly on identity framing[27:47]
• Scott says he didn't think of the Kimmel controversy in identity terms and instead sees the clip as obviously not warranting cancellation, making the response seem extreme on its face

Kash Patel's testimony and distraction from global threats

Kash Patel's combative exchange with Congress over Epstein files

Kara sets up Patel's House Judiciary appearance[37:56]
• She notes FBI Director Kash Patel took credit for identifying Charlie Kirk's assassin and told the committee he wasn't going anywhere
Clip of Eric Swalwell pressing Patel on Epstein files[38:20]
• Swalwell repeatedly asks Patel whether he told the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files, pressing for a yes or no answer
• Patel refuses to give a direct yes/no and instead attacks Swalwell, telling him to focus on reducing violent crime and pedophiles in California sanctuary cities
Kara and Scott's reaction to Patel[39:56]
• Kara calls Patel an idiot and criticizes his refusal to answer simple questions, calling the exchange more theater than oversight
• Scott says the incivility reflects poorly on America's brand and that Patel is being disrespectful to elected officials whose job is oversight of agencies like the FBI
• Scott suggests Patel is playing to an "audience of one"-Trump-and finds the whole thing discouraging

Global issues being overshadowed by domestic political drama

Scott notes Putin's escalation while U.S. attention is elsewhere[41:16]
• He says Putin flew attack drones into Romania, a NATO country, while the U.S. is distracted by Patel's performance and domestic scandal
• Scott argues Trump should be standing alongside U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, quietly coordinating a strong response instead of seeking symbolic moments like Windsor Castle visits

NVIDIA-Intel stake, China's chip retaliation, and antitrust concerns

NVIDIA's investment in Intel and market reaction

Kara summarizes the NVIDIA-Intel news and Joe Carney's skepticism[42:52]
• She says NVIDIA is investing $5 billion in Intel for about a 4% stake, stocks jumped over 25% in pre-market, and that Intel and NVIDIA will collaborate on PC and data center chips
• Kara relays that Joe Carney viewed this skeptically and wondered if it's industrial policy or an attempt to please Trump or build a national champion
Scott's antitrust lens and competition worries[44:27]
• Scott says he dislikes competitors buying stakes in each other because it can chill internal proposals, such as an Intel engineer wanting to build a cheaper rival to NVIDIA's GPUs
• He argues capitalism should be "full body contact" with violent competition, and such cross-ownership may reduce that intensity
Comparison to Microsoft-Apple stake and role of regulators[44:35]
• Scott cites Microsoft's historic stake in Apple as a precedent and says deals like NVIDIA-Intel require thoughtful DOJ and FTC review to assess competitive impact
• He notes Jonathan Kanter believes there are still good people at antitrust agencies but suggests the current environment favors stock-boosting deals over scrutiny

China's response: restricting NVIDIA chip orders

Kara mentions China's internet watchdog actions[45:50]
• She says China's internet regulator instructed companies to terminate orders for NVIDIA chips, a significant blow since China has been a big customer
Scott describes China's retaliation strategy[45:50]
• Scott frames China's moves as striking back in the trade war by hitting U.S. farmers with soybean restrictions and tech leaders by halting NVIDIA chips and encouraging domestic alternatives
• He asserts Trump's team is incompetent at industrial policy, noting raids on Hyundai plants chilling South Korean investment and failures to truly bring manufacturing back

Trump's TikTok extensions and proposed divestiture deal

Repeated TikTok deadline extensions and basic deal terms

Kara outlines the latest TikTok deadline extension and investors involved[50:17]
• She says Trump extended the TikTok deadline again to December 16, the fourth extension, and that ByteDance's U.S. operations would be spun into a new company if the deal goes through
• Oracle, Silver Lake, and Andreessen Horowitz are among investors expecting to own about 80% and the new company would have a majority U.S. board including one Trump administration appointee
Kara questions algorithm control and product viability[51:01]
• She suspects China will only accept a deal that lets it keep control of the algorithm; if they retain it, that poses security concerns, and if not, it could hurt the app's quality

Scott's critique: cronyism, socialism, and failure to solve defense risk

Scott recounts the original rationale for banning TikTok[51:50]
• He says Congress and Biden agreed TikTok was a defense threat because two-thirds of U.S. youth spend around 90 minutes a day on it, giving ByteDance and the CCP immense influence over future leaders
• He argues ByteDance has a vested interest, coordinated with the CCP, in dividing Americans and that the law aimed to ban this influence, but Trump decided not to enforce it
Scott calls the Trump-backed deal cronyist and socialist[52:28]
• He likens Trump carving up TikTok for donors to Putin giving state assets to friendly oligarchs, saying the president is using his power to force a valuable company to be sold to allies
• He criticizes the plan to seat a U.S. government representative on the board as socialism, with government inserting itself into the means of production
• Scott emphasizes that the key risk-the algorithm and CCP influence-remains, since the deal would license the algorithm and likely leave control in Beijing's hands
Scott doubts the deal will be finalized[54:09]
• He portrays Xi Jinping as viewing Trump as a distractible "cat on meth," predicting further delays and that China may simply run out the clock on the process
Economic upside for Oracle, Ellison, and others[54:59]
• Scott notes ByteDance has strong margins and growth but trades at only about 2x revenues due to geopolitical risk, so new U.S. owners could reap tens of billions as that discount closes
• He labels Ellison, Silver Lake, and Andreessen Horowitz "pigs at the trough" poised to benefit from an artificially cheap, carved-up asset if the deal goes through

Side discussion: local politics, socialism, and Mamdani vs. Trump

Debate over socialist policies from left and right

Scott criticizes socialism from any side[55:21]
• He says he opposes socialism whether from Democrats or Republicans and prefers capitalism and competition, criticizing ideas like government-run food stores and rent control associated with Mamdani
Kara contrasts Trump's track record with Mamdani's inexperience[56:46]
• Kara notes Mamdani has done very little compared to Trump, whom she calls effectively a communist and actively corrupt, breaking First Amendment norms and engaging in cronyism
• She says Scott is criticizing someone who has not yet had the chance to be "actively shitty" while Trump and his appointees are already doing damage

Prediction segment: AI winners, cash-rich firms, and M&A wave

Scott's prediction about M&A fueled by overvalued stocks

Scott explains how fully valued stocks drive acquisitions[1:03:02]
• He says companies whose stock is "fully valued" (overvalued) tend to go shopping for acquisitions trading at lower multiples, making deals immediately accretive
• He notes a few "magnificent" AI winners now represent 40% of the S&P and can cheaply buy many targets, while regulators appear unlikely to block such deals
Potential targets: media companies like Disney, Comcast, Warner Bros. Discovery[1:02:47]
• Scott mentions Warner Bros. stock jumping 55% in one week due to market excitement around AI, and suggests media players like Comcast and Disney could be bought by larger firms like Apple
• Kara agrees Disney could be attractive given its IP and that Bob Iger might welcome an exit after current controversies, possibly including lopping off ABC broadcast

Outro: Buttigieg teaser, personal anecdotes, and humor

Pete Buttigieg interview teaser and reflections on family

Kara plays a clip from her upcoming interview with Pete Buttigieg[1:08:22]
• In the clip, she asks if he will run for president in 2028; he demurs, saying it's too early given what the country has just gone through
Scott and Kara discuss Buttigieg's political future and messaging[1:08:28]
• Kara says Buttigieg has loosened up and is very charming; Scott praises him as an inspiration who served his country and can speak authentically about once believing he couldn't have a family
• They talk about how his story of having a family as a gay man thanks to civil rights advances could resonate with moderates and Republicans

Kara's own path to parenting and late-in-life kids

Scott prompts Kara to share her experience of wanting a family[1:11:50]
• Kara says she always wanted kids, even buying a baby onesie at 18, and took a defiant approach-"fuck you, I'm going to have kids"-rather than assuming she couldn't as a gay person
They briefly compare ages and experiences as older parents[1:13:14]
• Kara notes she had her first child at 39 and Scott at 42, and they agree it's often good to have kids when older, despite health challenges with younger children

Closing banter about ambassadorships and show wrap-up

Scott and Kara joke about future ambassadorships[1:14:02]
• Scott says he'd like to be ambassador to Spain; Kara suggests he could be ambassador to Australia or Mexico while she jokes about being ambassador elsewhere
Show closing information and contact details[1:15:05]
• Kara invites listeners to submit questions via nymag.com/pivot or the Pivot phone line and plugs her broader universe of shows, while credits list producers and editors

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

When government officials with regulatory power openly threaten media or individuals over speech, it is a signal to prioritize institutional safeguards and parallel channels of communication that are less vulnerable to such leverage.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your own work or community do you rely on a single gatekeeper who could exert disproportionate control over what you can say or do?
  • • How might you diversify the platforms or channels you use so that no single authority can easily silence or pressure you?
  • • What concrete step could you take this month to strengthen legal, procedural, or structural protections around your ability to speak candidly in your domain?
2

Economic behavior by concentrated groups of consumers and investors can be a powerful form of protest when traditional political channels feel blocked or unresponsive.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways does your spending, investing, or business relationship currently support institutions whose actions you strongly disagree with?
  • • How could you redirect even a small portion of your financial activity to better align with your values without jeopardizing your basic security?
  • • What coordinated action with peers or colleagues could you realistically organize that would send a visible economic signal on an issue you care about?
3

Legacy platforms and institutions that become easily captured or intimidated create an opportunity for new, more resilient players to emerge and win trust by being consistently courageous and hard to control.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which legacy institutions in your field are starting to look cautious or compromised, and which emerging voices seem to be taking real risks?
  • • How could you position yourself or your organization to be more like the fearless new entrants rather than the slow, risk-averse incumbents?
  • • What is one area where you could speak or act more boldly, even at small scale, to build credibility as an independent and principled voice?
4

Crony deals that mix state power with private gain erode both markets and democracy; healthy systems require clear lines between regulators, politicians, and commercial beneficiaries.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Have you ever benefited from a decision that, on reflection, felt more about connections than merit, and what did that teach you about systemic fairness?
  • • How can you assess whether a partnership or deal you're considering is truly competitive and value-creating versus relying on proximity to power or favoritism?
  • • What governance or transparency practices could you adopt in your own projects to make it obvious that decisions are based on merit rather than cronyism?
5

In a fast-changing environment, overvalued winners will often use their temporary advantage to buy undervalued assets, so it is critical to understand where you sit in that cycle and act accordingly.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Are you currently in a position of strength, weakness, or neutrality in your market, and how might that influence whether you should be a buyer, seller, or consolidator?
  • • How could you identify assets, teams, or projects around you that are undervalued relative to their potential and might be worth partnering with or acquiring?
  • • What guardrails can you set so that growth moves-acquisitions, expansions, big bets-are disciplined responses to genuine opportunity rather than reactions to short-term stock price euphoria?

Episode Summary - Notes by Jamie

ABC Pulls Jimmy Kimmel, Pam Bondi's Free Speech Mess, and Trump Sues The New York Times
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