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The Joe Rogan Experience

#2390 - Jack Carr

with Jack Carr

Published October 8, 2025
Visit Podcast Website

About This Episode

Jack Carr discusses his new novel set in 1968 Vietnam, explaining the extensive historical research and immersive process he used to authentically capture the era and the experience of soldiers on the ground. He and Joe Rogan explore the Vietnam War, media influence on public perception, the decline of reading, the rise of AI in creative work, and the realities of Hollywood adaptations of his books like "The Terminal List" and "Dark Wolf." They also range into topics like stunt work, physical training, security concerns, political polarization, immigration, and the disturbing public reaction to the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Topics Covered

War and empire Media trust and propaganda Artificial intelligence Storytelling Filmmaking Military veterans Social media addiction U.S. politics and elections Immigration policy and border security Government corruption

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Jack Carr's new novel "Cry Havoc" is set in 1968 Vietnam, and he immersed himself in the period with era-specific dictionaries, maps, music, and sources to write from the perspective of that time without modern hindsight.
  • He and Rogan argue that Vietnam exposed the "real America" in contrast to the moral clarity of World War II, highlighting government lies like the Gulf of Tonkin and the role of media in transforming tactical victories into strategic losses.
  • Carr believes reading is becoming a "superpower" as rates plummet with the rise of smartphones, and he credits fiction with building empathy and mental toughness, especially for those entering military service.
  • They express deep concern about AI's rapid ability to mimic voices, music, and writing styles, raising questions about authenticity, intellectual property, and what it will mean to be human in an AI-saturated culture.
  • Carr details how Amazon first resisted some darker aspects of "The Terminal List" but now gives him and Chris Pratt broad creative freedom thanks to the show's success, illustrating the value of trust built through results.
  • The conversation covers stunt work and Tom Cruise's extreme commitment, contrasting that with Jack's own decision to stop risk-heavy activities like skydiving while still embracing activities like shark diving and backcountry hunting.
  • They discuss the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the celebratory social media reactions as evidence of a disturbing moral breakdown amplified by performative online behavior.
  • Rogan and Carr criticize changing military standards and say that even if formal benchmarks stay the same, giving more attempts effectively lowers them, complicating integration of women and broader political agendas into elite units.
  • Both argue that open-border policies and UK-style digital IDs combined with social media policing represent dangerous tools for political control and suppression of dissent.
  • Rogan frames his podcast's rise as an unintended consequence of mainstream media failure, noting that long-form, unconstrained conversations filled a trust and depth vacuum left by traditional outlets.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and Jack Carr's new Vietnam novel

Opening greetings and context

Joe and Jack reconnect and mention busy schedules[0:17]
• Jack says they've been going "a thousand miles an hour" and he's been looking forward to the conversation
Joe sets up discussion of Jack's new book[0:24]
• Joe notes Jack has been "obsessed" with this era in human history and invites him to explain the book

Book setting: 1968 Vietnam and launch details

Jack explains the book is set in 1968 Vietnam[0:29]
• He just launched the book tour two nights prior and notes that 1968 was the bloodiest year of the war
Book tour kickoff with David Morrell[0:29]
• Jack says he kicked off the tour with David Morrell, who created Rambo with "First Blood" in 1972
• He calls Morrell a lifelong inspiration and mentions Morrell's 1980s novels "Brotherhood of the Rose," "Fraternity of the Stone," and "League of Night and Fog"
Fan tattoos and signing a baby[1:58]
• Someone handed Jack a baby to sign; he initially thought they wanted him to sign the baby's skin but they only wanted the shirt signed
• Jack mentions seeing two new large cross-tomahawk tattoos and recalls texting Joe about the first time a fan tattooed his logo around 2020
• Joe says fan tattoos of him are still "very weird" and not normal

Writing authentically about 1968 Vietnam

Jack's intent for the Vietnam novel

Avoiding a modern thriller pasted onto the 1960s[2:47]
• Jack did not want to simply drop a contemporary thriller into 1968 Vietnam with superficial cues like Creedence Clearwater Revival
• He wanted anyone who lived through the era to feel he had put in serious effort and that every sentence was written through the lens of 1968, without 50+ years of hindsight
Capturing limited perspective of the time[3:56]
• He emphasizes characters only have life experience up to that point-whether 20, 50, or 70 years old-so decisions must reflect what they knew then, not what we know now

Research tools: dictionaries, maps, and analog methods

Using a 1969 dictionary and era maps[5:08]
• Jack bought a 1969 dictionary (couldn't find 1968) to see how terms were defined then, and collected maps from the period
• He deliberately avoided "asking the Google machine" to simulate doing research as if he were in the 1960s
Unexpected time commitment[5:34]
• He thought it would be his fastest book because of his existing knowledge of warfare and Vietnam, but the authenticity goal made it take much longer
• The extended research is why the book is releasing in October instead of the earlier planned dates (January or June)

Vietnam War, media, and American identity

Joe's view: WWII vs. Vietnam as reflections of America

World War II as idealized America[6:36]
• Joe says WWII is "what we think America is"-fighting evil, stopping Hitler and the Third Reich
Vietnam as "the real America"[7:05]
• Joe calls Vietnam "fucking nonsense" birthed on a lie, referencing the Gulf of Tonkin false flag and government deception to drag the U.S. into war
• He notes huge profits for some, massive loss of life, and people feeling broken with a simultaneous cultural revolution, saying "that's the real America"

Jack's framing of Vietnam in the novel

Writing from 1968 without postwar knowledge[8:44]
• Jack stresses that characters don't yet know about who is making money, the full truth of the Gulf of Tonkin, or long-term outcomes; they only know that 1968 is the bloodiest year so far
Casualties and the domino theory[10:06]
• Over 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam; 1968 had the highest U.S. casualties and wounded of any year of the war
• Jack notes U.S. leaders at the time were thinking in terms of the domino theory in Southeast Asia and feared more countries falling to communism, even if hindsight suggests limited long-term impact

Treatment of WWII vs. Vietnam veterans

Contrasting homecomings[11:40]
• WWII veterans returned to parades, used the GI Bill, and helped build postwar America
• Vietnam veterans came home to protests, being called "baby killers" at airports, and social stigma, leaving a generational scar

Televised war and media power in Vietnam

From photos and newsreels to nightly TV[12:13]
• Earlier wars had photographs and weekly newsreels; Vietnam was the first war shown daily on television, with people watching Walter Cronkite and footage of combat in foxholes
Media shifting from observers to influencers[12:33]
• Jack argues Vietnam was when media realized they could influence events and policy, not just act as a check on government
• He describes some reporters living comfortably in Saigon, staging the appearance of being at the front, then returning to luxury hotels
Tet Offensive: tactical win, strategic loss[13:42]
• Jack says Tet was a complete tactical win for the U.S. but a strategic loss because media coverage framed it as a huge victory for North Vietnam, turning more Americans against the war

Fiction, empathy, and the decline of reading

Why Jack values fiction about war

Fiction humanizes statistics[13:59]
• Jack says reading about "58,000" deaths is abstract, but fiction lets readers live through characters and turns war into part of their own experience
• He links his experiences in SEAL training (BUD/S) with thinking about Normandy, Iwo Jima, and Vietnam, feeling he can do more push-ups because others sacrificed so much
Fiction as part of his formative experience[14:33]
• Thrillers by authors with Vietnam backgrounds or contemporary plots became part of his lived experience without him having to be there

Drop-off in reading since early 2000s

Correlation with smartphones and the internet[14:46]
• Jack notes a stark decline in reading from 2003 to 2025 that tracks closely with the rise of the smartphone
• He says he's entering publishing and Hollywood at one of the worst times in 100 years due to AI and fewer readers, with no "box office" equivalent for books anymore
Reading as a superpower for kids[23:19]
• Jack argues that if kids put down their phones and read, work out, and train in combat sports, they will "crush" others in life after school
• He says reading builds empathy, compassion, and a knowledge base, while others outsource thinking to their phones or AI tools

AI, creativity, and authenticity in art

AI trained on Jack's work and legal issues

OpenAI settlement notice[15:58]
• Jack says his agency told him that one OpenAI-related settlement involved his books being used, with a possible payout of about $1,000 to him
• He jokes that legal fees to claim it might exceed the payout and wonders if it's worth pursuing

Waylon Jennings "cover band" analogy for AI

Story of a cover artist "one album behind"[24:43]
• Jack recounts a story from Rick Rosenfield about Waylon Jennings telling a cover artist the "only problem" was he was "always one album behind"
• Rosenfield used this as an analogy to reassure Jack that AI-generated books "in his style" would always lag behind his current work

Rogan's concerns about AI surpassing humans

AI as more than a cover band[27:01]
• Joe says AI isn't just a cover band; it's "a lot smarter than us" and can accomplish tasks humans can't
Deepfake podcast clips[27:51]
• Jamie plays AI-generated clips of fake interviews with figures like Muhammad Ali and Michael Jackson using Rogan's podcast format
• Joe reacts that some are terrible but others are frighteningly good, highlighting how easy it is to fake convincing audio and video
AI-generated music and fake artists[30:42]
• Joe describes an AI-generated song that mimics a 1950s/60s soul singer covering 50 Cent's "Many Men," calling it one of his favorite songs despite the singer not being real
• He notes that if the singer were real, he'd be a huge star, underscoring how AI can create better-performing art than many humans

Authenticity, disclosure, and value of human-made art

Calls for labels on AI art[30:40]
• Jack suggests something like 1980s parental advisory labels so buyers know if a piece of art was created by AI
• He wonders if he'd feel cheated after displaying a piece of art for years then learning AI created it
What makes art meaningful[32:07]
• Joe says part of what makes art "cool" is that someone made it; an AI-made work feels like it lacks a piece of a person
• They question whether younger generations will care about human vs. AI authorship if the output resonates emotionally
AI trained on human culture but remixing it[33:32]
• Joe notes AI has absorbed essentially all existing literature, music, and comedy, and can remix it in any style (e.g., Amy Winehouse, Biggie Smalls)
• He suggests that even if AI art is synthetic, the lessons and emotional impact still derive from the human-created source material it was trained on
Potential premium on human-made work[34:34]
• Joe speculates that as AI work proliferates, creations verifiably made by humans may become more valuable
• Jack says he hasn't used ChatGPT or similar tools and jokes he just tries to keep Microsoft Word updated

AI as a tool vs. existential risk

Rogan uses AI assistants but worries about impact[35:06]
• He uses an AI tool (Perplexity) for research questions during the show and views it as a valuable resource, especially in his role
• He isn't personally scared of AI but is concerned it could "fuck up society"; however, he sees societal cycles and collapses as recurrent in history

Hollywood adaptations and The Terminal List universe

Entering publishing and Hollywood in a changing era

Jack's timing and industry shifts[24:34]
• Jack jokes he's entering publishing and Hollywood at one of the worst times due to AI, fewer readers, and shrinking box office for films

Creative control with Amazon on "The Terminal List" and spin-offs

Trust built from first season success[24:49]
• He contrasts the many notes Amazon gave on season one-e.g., they were nervous about Chris Pratt's character killing someone and about killing the Secretary of Defense-with minimal notes on "Dark Wolf" and later work
• Because the first season performed so well, Amazon now largely tells them "don't fuck it up" instead of micromanaging creative decisions
Risky structure of "True Believer" adaptation[26:33]
• Jack explains "True Believer" begins with James Reece crossing an ocean on a journey of violent redemption, then going to Mozambique to fight poachers using his Iraq/Afghanistan skills
• He thought his publisher might demand cutting the introspective first third and jumping straight into "saving the world," but they supported his full arc
• Amazon similarly is taking a risk by funding two episodes focusing on character development and poaching work before the main global threat plot kicks in
Casting and authenticity with weapons and locations[28:03]
• Jack praises Arnold Vosloo, who plays Rich Hastings, as a "guy's guy" who already knows what to do with a rifle and brings authenticity to the role
• They filmed in Africa to capture real landscapes; Jack calls it some of the most beautiful footage of Africa he's seen on film

Fighting style decisions in "The Terminal List"

Avoiding "John Wick"-style choreography[31:50]
• Jack says they deliberately avoided stylized John Wick-type fights because they didn't want a less-good imitation; instead they chose primal, visceral, realistic combat
Handling size differences and "girl power" critiques[32:17]
• He describes a scene where a smaller female character fights a huge man: to keep it believable, she shoots him three times before the physical fight begins
• Despite this, some viewers online still complained it was unrealistic that she could beat him, ignoring that he was shot multiple times first
Stunt performers taking real punishment[31:57]
• Jack recounts a stuntwoman being thrown into a refrigerator with only a tiny pad, calling the stunt work "brutal" and hard to watch after getting to know performers personally

Stunt work, Tom Cruise, and physical risk

Tom Cruise's extreme commitment to stunts

Breaking his ankle and continuing the scene[32:02]
• Joe describes a scene where Tom Cruise jumps between rooftops, shatters his ankle, but keeps running to finish the shot
Multiple takes of dangerous stunts[34:21]
• They mention Cruise repeating dangerous sequences like a motorcycle jump off a cliff and a parachute stunt multiple times
• Joe speculates that Cruise might self-insure because traditional insurers might balk at such risks
Jack's own view on high-risk activities[34:46]
• Jack says he is done with skydiving, calling it unnecessary now, but he still goes in the water with sharks

Jack's fitness push, writing routine, and supplements

Rogan's daily hanging practice and Jack's fitness wake-up call

Joe's hanging protocol[35:24]
• Joe describes hanging from a bar for 1 minute 30 seconds daily for about 10 days, feeling his back decompress but struggling near the end of each set
Jack's transformation after seeing a photo[36:27]
• After seeing a photo of himself with Joe from a previous visit, Jack felt he looked terrible and realized he had put himself at the bottom of his priority list
• He went all-in starting around August 1: outdoor Rocky IV-style workouts in the mountains, sauna sessions, careful diet (cutting bread), cardio, and sun exposure
• He says he got into some of the best shape of his life, feeling like he could "throw people through walls"
Falling off the routine under deadline pressure[37:54]
• On January 1 he was still working out in the snow, but soon stopped exercise completely as writing and screenwriting deadlines took over
• He acknowledges this all-or-nothing pattern is unhealthy and wants to restore balance between health and work, especially as family circumstances change

Writing schedule and sleep deprivation

Immersive, unhealthy writing sprints[38:48]
• As deadlines pass, Jack writes from the moment he wakes until he goes to sleep, often on 1-2 hours of sleep while still helping with his kids in the morning
• He says it's "not healthy" and recognizes he needs a better schedule

Substances, nootropics, and creatine

Avoiding Adderall and nicotine, moderate alcohol use[39:43]
• Jack notes many writers use Adderall and historically authors used nicotine; he drinks coffee, water, red wine, and whiskey but says not "too much"
Rogan's supplement suggestions[40:26]
• Joe suggests nootropics like Alpha Brain and neuro gum, and especially creatine, citing studies showing improved cognitive performance and reaction time under sleep deprivation
• Jack had taken creatine and other supplements during his fitness phase (using a Thorne product) but only at the label dose; Joe says many people benefit from ~20 grams a day, especially under sleep loss

Immersive research for "Cry Havoc" and living in 1968

Era-specific media and sources

Playlists, documentaries, and manuals[42:32]
• Jack built a 1968 Vietnam playlist on Spotify, watched Vietnam documentaries, and read everything he could from the period, including old Army Special Forces manuals about working with Montagnard tribes
• He collected National Geographic magazines from the late 1950s and 1960s and listened to history podcasts on JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King Jr., and Nixon's election
Trying to stay mentally in 1968[43:12]
• He wanted to avoid getting emotionally spun up by contemporary social media content and then trying to "jump back" to 1968; instead, he immersed himself in that world for months at a time
• Jack says living mentally in the past like that felt healthier than being constantly enraged by modern feeds

Vintage vehicles, watches, and storytelling through gear

Modern Ineos Grenadier vs. old Land Cruisers

Jack's disappointment with the Grenadier[44:05]
• Jack bought an Ineos Grenadier fully outfitted but disliked constant over-speed beeping, the speedometer placement on the center screen, and the need for off-road mode to use certain lights
• He describes himself as someone who wants a car, not "to drive a computer," and ultimately got rid of the Grenadier
Love for old Land Cruisers and FJ40[47:21]
• Jack has a 60-series Land Cruiser with an LS3 V8 swap and two stock 80-series Land Cruisers from 1996, plus a fully restored 1978 FJ40 that tops out around 40 mph
• He calls them his "time machines" and values their thick doors and tactile driving experience, despite quirks and noises

G-Wagons, defenders, and build philosophies

G-Wagon as military platform vs. image[50:57]
• Joe explains that G-Wagons were designed for military applications with heavy steel doors, contrasting them with flimsy aluminum Land Rover Defenders
• Jack test-drove a 2016 G-Wagon but found it "too LA, too Kardashian" despite liking the drive

Land Cruisers and reliability in Africa

Crew's newfound respect for Land Cruisers[54:44]
• While scouting locations in Africa for filming, Jack's crew drove Land Cruisers and texted him realizing his "obsession" with them, noting their ubiquity and reliability

Watches as character totems

Vintage Rolex Submariner and Seiko MACV-SOG pieces[55:10]
• Jack wears a 1968 Rolex Submariner he acquired through a dealer to match the era of his novel and collected various Seiko models associated with MACV-SOG operators
• He keeps these era-appropriate watches near him while writing as physical totems of the time
Tudor Submariners and destruction of issued watches[1:00:05]
• Jack recounts a rumor that in the 1990s SEAL team supply destroyed issued Tudor watches with hammers when switching to Seikos, possibly to prevent resale
• He later acquired a vintage Tudor through "Watches of Espionage" and worked on a documentary with former SEALs who recovered Apollo astronauts, tying watches to that history
Rolex ads and evolution from tool to luxury[1:36:45]
• They look at old Rolex ads featuring rhino hunters, oil well firefighters, and authors as rugged tool-watch users, contrasting them with today's association with tennis and golf
• Jack says he prefers vintage pieces that align with the tool-watch heritage and help tell character stories in his books and shows

Audiobooks, Ray Porter, and consumption habits

Audio vs. print sales

Audio dominates Jack's sales[1:09:31]
• Jack says a lot more audiobooks are sold than hardcovers, though he doesn't focus on exact numbers, just that his publisher is very happy
• He attributes strong audio performance partly to his narrator, Ray Porter, whom he calls "incredible" and "fantastic"

Ray Porter's skills and female voices

Accents and gender in narration[1:10:04]
• Joe marvels at Porter's ability to do different accents and believable female voices without jarring listeners, despite the inherent difficulty
• Jack gives Porter tough tasks like a character with Finnish, German, and English influences, based on a real officer tied to MACV-SOG
Porter as actor beyond audiobooks[1:11:31]
• Jack notes Porter is acting in "Waiting for Godot" in Oregon and has roles in films and TV, including voicing Darkseid in a Justice League film and appearing in "Almost Famous" and 1990s sitcoms

Whispersync and mixed reading/listening

Seamless switching between formats[1:12:30]
• Joe explains a Kindle/Audible feature (he calls it "Whisper Sync") that lets readers alternate between text and audio while preserving their place
• Jack says many fans both listen in the car and read the hardcover at home, making heavy use of both formats

Charlie Sheen, Hollywood excess, and war movies

Joe reading Charlie Sheen's book for an upcoming interview

Apocalypse Now and Platoon context[1:14:00]
• Joe is halfway through Charlie Sheen's book and wants to focus their conversation on "Apocalypse Now," "Platoon," and "Navy SEALS"
• He notes the surreal arc of Sheen being on the set of "Apocalypse Now" at age 10 and then starring in "Platoon" a decade later

Drug use and survival

Cocaine era vs. fentanyl era[1:17:29]
• Joe contrasts the 1980s cocaine era, when heavy users like Sheen didn't typically die instantly, with today's fentanyl-laced street drugs that kill people with one line of cocaine
• He recounts Sheen describing smoking crack for the first time with a woman who later died of an overdose, but notes Sheen himself has survived and now looks healthy after nearly eight years of sobriety

Sheen's influence on Jack and the military

Navy SEALS movie as inspiration[1:18:24]
• Jack saw "Navy SEALS" at a midnight screening the day before its release while in high school, already knowing he wanted to be a SEAL, and considered casting Charlie Sheen from "Platoon" as perfect
• He later briefly met Sheen and his father Martin Sheen at a baseball game while with SEALs, remembering Martin as an old-school gentleman and noting a line of girls waiting for Charlie afterward

Assassination of Charlie Kirk and online reaction

Jack's personal experience of hearing the news

Learning about the shooting mid-work[1:19:00]
• Jack was signing books when his chief of staff screamed after getting a text from her husband (in security) saying "Charlie Kirk's been shot in Utah"
• He went to X (Twitter) and saw the video before he could reach his kids, who follow Kirk and felt as if they knew him
Ensuring his son was okay[2:14:03]
• Jack called his son's boarding school and had a trusted staff member check on him; his son was doing fine, but Jack was worried about him seeing the graphic video alone

Rogan's reaction and moral shock

Surreality of assassination and social media[2:15:48]
• Joe says assassinations feel especially surreal, and what disturbed him most was the large number of people online celebrating Kirk's murder in front of his children
• He frames it as evidence that political and social media environments have badly warped people's minds

Perceived "evil" in online cackling

Witch-like celebration videos[2:17:16]
• Jack mentions seeing videos of a man and a woman laughing in a "witch's cackle" celebrating Kirk's death, saying he could "feel the evil" through the phone
Performative cruelty for clicks[2:18:03]
• Joe suspects many celebratory reactions are performative for clicks and likes, but notes that nonetheless a "wave" of people seemed genuinely thrilled a right-wing influencer had been killed
In-person celebration anecdote[2:18:23]
• Joe shares that a friend saw a woman on a Zoom call at a cafe saying the "events of the day" had made it a great day, clearly referring to the assassination, with others on the call clapping and smiling

Sensing evil, elites, and secretive gatherings

Jack's "evil" feelings in warzones and Paris

Atmosphere at prisons and Saddam's sites[2:20:47]
• Jack compares the feeling from those celebration videos to a "current of evil" he sensed at a prison site in Bagram and at Saddam Hussein-related locations in Baghdad
Strange figure at Paris fashion week[2:21:38]
• At a Paris fashion week hotel, Jack and his wife saw an obese man in black robes with earrings hanging from his hood, flanked by two similarly dressed "minions," exuding such an odd aura that they paid and left
• He again uses the word "evil" to describe the feeling and notes they intended to look him up later but did not

Bohemian Grove vs. Davos speculations

Bohemian Grove as mostly drinking[2:25:04]
• Jack says he went to Bohemian Grove and didn't see anything like the Alex Jones video; his impression was mostly men getting away for the weekend to drink
Question about Davos atmosphere[2:24:54]
• Joe speculates that gatherings like the World Economic Forum at Davos-billionaires deciding the fate of the world-might feel "evil," though he presents it as conjecture

BUD/S training, women in special forces, and standards

Pool comp and life-saving drills

Stressful underwater tests[2:27:51]
• Jack describes "pool comp" where instructors turn off a trainee's air, hit them in the stomach, tie hoses in knots, and pound them off the pool bottom to test comfort underwater and procedural discipline
• He explains another evolution called "life saving" where trainees rescue instructors acting like panicked or deadweight drowners, using techniques similar to rear naked chokes to control them while staying calm

Attrition and athletic backgrounds

High attrition and elite athletes quitting[2:29:48]
• About 80% of BUD/S candidates wash out, often during Hell Week, and some elite athletes fail because they're used to being treated as "Ferraris" and struggle with being treated like expendable Chevys

Changing standards and extra attempts

Maintaining standards on paper while bending practice[2:34:51]
• Jack says the military can claim standards haven't changed while granting more attempts at key evolutions (e.g., giving a fifth or sixth try at an obstacle course or pool comp) to push certain people through
• He suggests this is how officials can honestly say standards are unchanged when testifying, while effectively lowering them

Women in elite units and Jack's reservations

Conflict between chivalry and combat leadership[2:38:18]
• Jack says he was raised to stand when a woman enters the room and to act as a protector, and he doubts he could treat a female teammate exactly like a male in combat
• He openly calls this may be a "failing" on his part but is glad he never had to confront it in real life
Physical realities in combat roles[2:40:11]
• Joe emphasizes biological differences in strength and speed and says it's not fair or smart to put weaker people-whether women or smaller men-into roles requiring shooting, stabbing, and hand-to-hand combat

Department of War, political narratives, and immigration

Renaming the Department of Defense

Argument for "Department of War"[2:45:03]
• Jack has advocated since 2001, including in articles after the Afghanistan withdrawal, for renaming the Department of Defense back to the Department of War to reflect reality
• He notes that precision in language reflects precision in thought and that "defense" has a different connotation than "war"

Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, and discrimination claims

Book claim about not choosing Buttigieg[3:17:33]
• Jack says he has heard (second-hand) that Kamala Harris's book states she did not choose Pete Buttigieg as VP because of his sexual orientation
• He suggests that if that is accurate, it would be illegal discrimination, as one cannot lawfully refuse to hire someone solely for being gay
Debate over election "mandate" and tax-on-tips[3:19:19]
• Joe criticizes Harris for calling the 2024 race the closest of the 21st century and "not a mandate," pointing out that other elections were closer and that she lost every swing state
• Jack says Harris's book also takes credit for ending tax on tips, which Joe notes was clearly a Trump policy proposal

Immigration, digital ID, and social media arrests

UK digital ID and social credit fears[3:00:06]
• Joe states that the UK has "submitted" to digital ID, predicting it will be tied to social credit and carbon scores, enabling full control over people's movements and behavior
• He claims the UK has arrested 12,000 people for social media posts, far more than Russia, often for critical speech about immigration or grooming gangs
US border policy and political manipulation[3:25:16]
• Joe asserts that the open southern border and mass immigration of military-age men is being used to manipulate elections by moving migrants to swing states and enrolling them in benefits programs
• He cites reports of migrants being given Social Security numbers and voting, as well as sanctuary cities and EBT cards, framing it as a concerted effort despite it not ultimately working electorally
Shifts in Democratic immigration rhetoric[3:06:56]
• Jack points out old clips of Bill and Hillary Clinton, Schumer, Pelosi, and Biden in the 1990s talking about immigration in ways that today would be considered extremely right-wing, emphasizing enforcement and penalties

Tulsi Gabbard, quiet skies, and political punishment

Tulsi's path and potential as president

Character vs. system rewards[3:13:29]
• Joe says Tulsi has a lot of character, which is not rewarded in the current system, but he still sees a path for her to become the first female president

Being put on a terrorist watchlist

Quiet Skies designation[3:14:34]
• Joe criticizes that Tulsi Gabbard, a four-term congresswoman who served twice overseas in a medical unit, was placed on a "Quiet Skies" list (a form of terrorist watchlist)
• He calls it an abuse of power and an example of using security tools to target political opponents, noting there's no extreme rhetoric from her that would justify it

Joe Rogan's podcast, media failure, and communication tech

Rogan on why his podcast exists at scale

Accidental success and media vacuum[3:31:53]
• Joe insists his show wasn't a strategic plan; it grew from fun conversations on a laptop in a spare bedroom and gradually built an audience
• He argues that his prominence is a symptom of mainstream media failure; if people are turning to a cage-fight commentator and comedian for information, something is wrong with traditional journalism
Constraints of mainstream formats[3:33:40]
• Joe says TV news is hamstrung by ad breaks, sponsors, and ideological constraints, while many online outlets are boxed in by partisan expectations
• He notes that his long-form, unconstrained conversations filled a trust and depth vacuum that legacy media left open

Phones as disconnection devices

From connecting families to isolating them[3:42:25]
• Jack observes that telephones used to connect people across distances, but smartphones now often disconnect people from those sitting right next to them, such as spouses or kids
• He highlights that phones are also tracking and surveillance devices and worries about what this means for the future of human connection

AR, metaglasses, and wearable technology

Meta glasses and future implants

AR glasses creeping into daily life[3:43:15]
• They mention being given Meta smart glasses at a UFC event and note comedy club staff now have to watch for people trying to film with them
• Jack worries about a future where such tech becomes invisible (contacts, implants) and integrated deeply into identity and behavior

Apple Watch judgments vs. tool watches

Quick judgments based on wearables[3:45:08]
• Jack admits he immediately judges someone wearing an Apple Watch, seeing it as a symbol of being overly plugged-in, while Joe notes many use them as health tools
• Joe contrasts his Garmin, which can run for over a month and has maps for navigation, with Apple Watches that require daily charging and constant notifications

Hunting, wildlife behavior, and predator risks

Lanai axis deer hunting and resort life

Hunting axis deer and staying at four seasons[3:53:25]
• Jack describes hunting axis deer with rifles on Lanai, then staying with his family at the Four Seasons, calling it a unique combination of serious hunting and luxury
• Joe notes axis deer meat is excellent and describes axis sliders and carpaccio served at the resort as "so good"

Alaska hunting and bear encounters

Close encounter with a charging bear[4:07:29]
• Jack hunted in Alaska with an iron-sighted .375 and recounts a young, curious bear "charging" then veering off at the last moment; his guide shouted "shoot" then "no, no" as it turned
• He says being so close to big bears while walking river systems was wild and nerve-wracking

Orcas sinking boats and animal aggression

Drone footage of battlefield drones and orcas[4:03:15]
• Earlier they referenced drone warfare in Ukraine; later they discuss orcas ramming and sinking boats off the Iberian Peninsula
• Joe questions experts who claim orcas are just "bored" and suggests someone may have mistreated them, triggering learned responses

Home security, instinct, and threat perception

Visitors after the Kirk assassination

All-black stranger at the door[4:18:39]
• The day after the Kirk assassination, a man in all black knocked at Jack's remote mountain home; Jack approached with a pistol behind his back
• The man had his back turned and claimed to be offering concrete work; though he didn't match the shooter description, the timing and appearance made Jack highly suspicious
Another late-night visitor in a storm[4:23:22]
• In a separate incident around midnight in a storm, a woman with what looked like a headlamp approached his door; Jack again armed himself, worrying about a possible setup
• The visitor turned out to be looking for another house, but the incident reinforced his desire for better security systems and procedures

Trusting gut feelings and primitive instincts

Friend-or-foe assessment in modern life[4:24:22]
• Jack frames these reactions as the same survival instincts that once helped humans distinguish friend from foe in the wild
• Joe adds that anyone approaching a remote house at night should recognize the resident is in a vulnerable, high-alert state, making such visits inherently suspect

Closing: "Cry Havoc" and future adaptations

Introducing "Cry Havoc" by name

Book title and availability[4:27:04]
• Joe names the book "Cry Havoc" and says it is available now, expressing excitement to read it

Potential Amazon series adaptation

Pitching a Vietnam espionage thriller[4:27:31]
• Jack says they will pitch the book to Amazon as a series within the next month and believes audiences are ready for another Vietnam-set show or movie
• He notes that few have done an espionage thriller centered in Saigon and Southeast Asia since works like Graham Greene's "The Quiet American" and novels from the 1970s, making his approach relatively rare

Personal pride in the book

Jack's favorite of his own works[4:27:31]
• Jack calls this Vietnam book his favorite and believes each of his books has improved, which he views as crucial to honoring the story and readers' time

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

If you want to write or create about a historical period with integrity, you must immerse yourself in its language, media, and mindset instead of projecting modern hindsight onto past decisions.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What project in your life would benefit from you deeply immersing yourself in the original context instead of relying on surface-level assumptions?
  • • How can you practically limit modern biases (like constant internet searches or social media) when you're trying to understand or represent another time, culture, or industry?
  • • What specific sources-books, interviews, artifacts-could you seek out this month to more authentically ground a story or decision you're working on?
2

In an age of distraction, sustained reading and deep work are becoming a rare competitive advantage that compound into empathy, knowledge, and clearer thinking.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How many uninterrupted minutes per day do you currently devote to reading or focused learning, and how does that compare to your phone or social media time?
  • • Where in your schedule could you carve out a protected reading block that becomes as non-negotiable as a meeting or workout?
  • • What one book-fiction or nonfiction-could you commit to finishing in the next four weeks that would genuinely stretch your perspective?
3

Trust and autonomy in collaborative work are earned by delivering results under constraints; once you've proven your judgment, you can negotiate for more creative freedom instead of more oversight.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what area of your work have you already delivered results that could justify asking for more autonomy or fewer "notes" from others?
  • • How might you frame a conversation with a boss or partner so that your past performance becomes the basis for a different level of trust going forward?
  • • What small, high-stakes project could you volunteer for in the next quarter that, if executed well, would significantly increase your leverage and freedom?
4

Media narratives and political rhetoric shift over time, so critical thinking requires comparing what people say now with what they said and did in different contexts, not just accepting current slogans.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When was the last time you compared a leader's current position with their statements from ten or twenty years ago on the same topic?
  • • How could you build a simple habit of checking original sources-speeches, full interviews, voting records-instead of relying on clips or headlines?
  • • What is one emotionally charged issue (like immigration or war) where you could deliberately seek out primary documents from a different era to challenge your assumptions?
5

Balancing intense creative or professional sprints with physical health and sleep is not optional; it's a strategic necessity if you want to sustain high performance over years instead of burning out.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which health habit (sleep, exercise, diet) do you sacrifice first when deadlines loom, and what has that actually cost you in the quality of your work?
  • • How could you redesign your "crunch time" routines so that at least one key health behavior remains non-negotiable even under pressure?
  • • What specific boundary around work-such as a latest cutoff time or a minimum sleep window-are you willing to test for the next big project?
6

Your gut feelings about safety-who you trust at your door, on a dark trail, or in a negotiation-are informed by deep evolutionary wiring and are worth listening to before you rationalize them away.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Can you recall a time when you ignored a "bad feeling" about a person or situation and later regretted it, and what were the early warning signs?
  • • How might you differentiate between irrational anxiety and a legitimate signal by checking for concrete cues (timing, context, behavior) when your instincts flare up?
  • • What simple personal security practices (at home, online, or in travel) could you implement this week to better align your actions with your intuitions?

Episode Summary - Notes by Peyton

#2390 - Jack Carr
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