Get Your Weekly Digest

Receive the best podcast summaries and insights delivered to your inbox every week.

We respect your privacy. Unsubscribe anytime.

TED Talks Daily

Tax the rich - and save the planet | Esther Duflo

with Esther Duflo

Published October 15, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Host Elise Hu introduces a TED Talk by economist Esther Duflo, who argues that the world's richest individuals and largest multinational corporations should fund climate damage costs through targeted taxes. Duflo quantifies the mortality and financial burden that greenhouse gas emissions from rich countries impose on low- and middle-income countries and proposes a global wealth and corporate tax to raise around $1.7 trillion annually. She advocates sending this money directly to people, especially in poorer nations, to build resilience and create a new grand bargain where rich countries pay climate damages and poorer countries commit to strong climate action.

Topics Covered

Climate change Climate finance Wealth tax Wealth inequality Poverty and inequality Environmental justice Randomized controlled trials Universal basic income International aid cuts

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Rising temperatures alone are projected to cause an additional 6 million deaths by 2100, overwhelmingly in low- and middle-income countries.
  • Using a value of statistical life of $2 million, OECD greenhouse gas emissions impose about $1.7 trillion in annual mortality costs on poorer countries.
  • A 3% yearly tax on the wealth of the 3,000 richest people could raise roughly $400 billion, and increasing the minimum tax on multinationals from 15% to 21% could raise another $300 billion.
  • A global minimum tax on multinational corporations, once seen as unrealistic, was agreed to by 120 countries in 2021 and is already implemented by 40, demonstrating that ambitious tax coordination is possible.
  • Duflo proposes sending climate damage funds directly to citizens via existing mobile money systems and cash transfer programs to increase resilience and reduce poverty.
  • Evidence from randomized controlled trials shows that cash transfers help households smooth consumption during climate shocks and make productive investments like better roofs and solar panels.
  • In some very poor countries, climate damage payments could finance a universal basic income that lifts everyone above the poverty line.
  • Duflo calls for a "grand bargain" where poor countries receive climate damage payments and, in exchange, commit to strong climate mitigation measures such as carbon pricing.
  • Surveys show that 70% of Americans and 80% of Europeans support taxing the wealthiest people to help the poorest cope with climate change.
  • Duflo frames these taxes as fulfilling a moral debt and as essential to rebuilding trust between richer and poorer countries so that global climate mitigation can succeed.

Podcast Notes

Podcast introduction and framing of the climate finance question

Host introduces TED Talks Daily and herself

Elise Hu identifies the show as TED Talks Daily and herself as the host[2:31]
• She says listeners are hearing TED Talks Daily, bringing new ideas to spark curiosity every day

Framing the need for bold strategies to pay for climate damages

Elise states that it is now clear bold strategies are needed to pay for and stop the damages of climate change[2:44]
• She frames climate change as already causing damages that must be financed, not just prevented

Introducing Esther Duflo's central question and proposal

Elise summarizes that economist Esther Duflo asks why we don't simply tax the world's richest people to pay for climate damages[2:52]
• She explains that Duflo proposes a publicly funded redistribution system financed by taxes on billionaires and large multinational companies
Elise notes Duflo argues such a system could work and that this "grand bargain" is more within reach than we might expect[3:07]

Climate impacts: heat deaths and unequal vulnerability

Common images of climate change versus the reality of heat deaths

Duflo says people typically think of wildfires, storms, and floods when they think of climate change[3:10]
• She contrasts these dramatic images with the less visible reality that temperature alone kills people

Unequal geographic impacts, especially in Africa and poor countries

Duflo highlights that temperature-related deaths are particularly concentrated in Africa[3:29]
• She notes these deaths are not as visible in capitals of France or the US
She explains that the worst impacts are mostly happening in poor countries that are already hot[3:39]
• Citizens in those countries often lack protections like air conditioning or office jobs that reduce exposure to heat

Projected mortality from temperature increases

Duflo cites estimates that by 2100, an extra 6 million people will die due to increased temperature alone[3:55]
• She emphasizes that all of these additional deaths will occur in low- or middle-income countries

Linking emissions to global mortality

Duflo explains that every ton of carbon emitted from countries like the US, India, and China stays in the atmosphere for a very long time[4:10]
• These emissions contribute to warming and therefore to the deaths she has described

Putting a monetary value on climate-related deaths and damages

Introducing the idea of valuing a statistical life

Duflo proposes, for concreteness, to put a dollar value on lives cut short by climate change[4:22]
• She anticipates skepticism that economists are "scams" because people think you cannot price a life
She argues that in practice individuals and governments already put implicit values on life[4:36]
• As an example, individuals weigh the probability of dying in a bicycle accident against the cost of buying a helmet
• Governments similarly value lives when assessing costs of investments to protect people on highways

Mexico's value of a statistical life as a benchmark

Duflo cites Mexico, a country with about the world's average income, using a value of statistical life of about $2 million[4:59]
• She adopts this $2 million figure as a benchmark for her calculations of climate damages

Calculating the annual mortality cost of OECD emissions

Using the $2 million value, Duflo says they calculated the dollar value of lives lost because of emissions[5:11]
• She states that every year, greenhouse gas emissions from OECD countries inflict a cost of $1.7 trillion on low- and middle-income countries
Duflo stresses that these costs are largest in the poorest countries[5:34]

Niger as an example of disproportionate damages

Duflo uses Niger as a case study, noting its GDP is just under $650 a year per person[5:39]
• She contrasts this with yearly damages from OECD emissions in Niger of $9,000 per person
• This illustrates how climate damages per capita can far exceed local income in very poor countries

Shortcomings of current climate finance and negotiations

Frustration with climate funding from COP to COP

Duflo says that from one climate conference (COP) to the next, rich countries are "nicking" the poor countries for climate money for mitigation and adaptation[5:57]
• She mentions a supposed roadmap from Baku to Belem, going from $300 billion to $1.3 trillion in climate finance commitments
She calls this likely a "road to nowhere" if the world continues with buzzwords and complicated schemes[6:09]
• She points out that the money is difficult to raise and even harder to spend effectively

Difficulties accessing climate funds for developing countries

Duflo notes that climate negotiators from India and Africa are tired of the challenges in accessing money that should legitimately be theirs[6:19]
• This reflects bureaucratic or structural barriers that frustrate intended beneficiaries

Need for a better way to fund climate damages

Duflo says there has to be a better way and announces she will present one[6:30]
• Her proposal aims directly at raising the $1.7 trillion she has identified as the moral debt to poor countries

Proposal: raise $1.7 trillion through public redistribution from the richest

Why philanthropy is insufficient and public redistribution is needed

Duflo suggests straightforwardly that we should try to raise $1.7 trillion to pay our moral debt to poor countries[6:39]
• She argues there is no money to be made saving the life of an old woman in Pakistan, signaling a lack of profit incentive
She says this is too much money for philanthropy to realistically cover[7:00]
• Therefore, she concludes the money must come from publicly funded international redistribution

Context of shrinking international commitments from rich countries

Duflo acknowledges that many northern countries, starting with the US, are cutting international commitments rather than adding to them[7:20]
• She references this political context to show why calling for $1.7 trillion in new money seems ambitious

Targeting the richest individuals and largest corporations

Duflo argues that we must "take the money where it is," in the bank accounts of the richest people and biggest multinationals[7:27]
• She clarifies she is not talking about expropriation, anticipating fears that her proposal is extreme

Rich individuals' tax avoidance and Warren Buffett example

Duflo says the richest people on the planet do not pay their fair share in taxes[7:57]
• She cites Warren Buffett, noting he is "no communist," who said he paid less in taxes than his assistant
She affirms that Buffett's observation is true and that this pattern is not limited to the US[8:05]
• Worldwide, rich people use various perfectly legal maneuvers to avoid paying the same tax rates as everyone else

Concrete tax proposals: wealth tax and higher global minimum corporate tax

Wealth tax on the 3,000 richest people

Duflo proposes a tax on the wealth of the 3,000 richest people in the world[8:22]
• She suggests a rate of about 3% a year on their wealth
She estimates such a tax would raise around $400 billion annually[8:27]

Increasing the minimum tax on multinational corporations

Duflo proposes a slight increase in the minimum tax on multinational corporations, raising it from 15% to 21%[8:34]
• She estimates that this adjustment would raise about $300 billion per year

Existing global minimum corporate tax agreement as proof of feasibility

Duflo insists she is not dreaming because a tax on international corporations already exists[8:46]
• She notes that 20 years ago it would have seemed crazy to imagine a worldwide agreement on such a tax
In 2021, 120 countries signed a treaty on a global minimum corporate tax[8:57]
• She says this agreement is already implemented by 40 countries

Mechanics of enforcing the global minimum tax even if some countries abstain

Duflo explains the tax does not require every country to participate[9:03]
• She gives the example that if the US does not participate, France and Germany can tax US companies on their sales in those countries
These taxes ensure that overall, companies pay at least 15% on their profits globally[9:22]
• She suggests a similar enforcement approach could be used for taxes on billionaires

Extending similar enforcement mechanisms to billionaires

Duflo says France and Germany could send a tax bill to a billionaire like Jeff Bezos[9:27]
• If he did not pay, they could start levying money on Amazon's tax liabilities in France

Political momentum and support for wealth taxes

Duflo notes that this kind of tax is already in the political conversation[9:42]
• She says Brazil put it on the map during its presidency of the G20
She reports it made it into the final G20 declaration with support from many countries, including France and Spain[9:50]
• She adds that some of Brazil's richest billionaires supported the proposal

Public opinion in rich regions

Duflo cites survey figures that 70% of Americans support a tax on the wealthiest people to help the poorest cope with climate change[10:14]
• She adds that 80% of Europeans similarly support such a wealth tax

How to use the raised funds: direct cash transfers to citizens

Concerns about intermediaries and misallocation

Duflo notes climate activists worry that international institutions might "hog" the money[10:23]
• She also notes rich countries fear that developing-country governments might use the money for their own purposes

Proposal to send funds directly to people

As a simple solution, Duflo proposes sending the money straight to people[10:33]
• She says the world knows how to do this and that the infrastructure already exists

Existing infrastructure: mobile money and cash transfer programs

Duflo highlights that in Africa almost everyone already has a mobile money account[10:49]
• She notes that there are more than 100 randomized controlled trials evaluating cash transfer programs
These studies indicate that money is generally used well by recipients[10:56]
• She adds that cash transfers also help build resilience to shocks

Evidence from Zambia: cash transfers and consumption smoothing

Duflo cites a program in Zambia where people received about $12 a month in support income[11:06]
• She says this increased their consumption on average
Importantly, the transfers removed the usual ups and downs in consumption that come with droughts and floods[11:13]
• This illustrates how cash support can buffer households against climate-related shocks

Evidence from Kenya: universal basic income and investments

Duflo describes how people in Kenya used a universal basic income they received[11:20]
• First, recipients used funds to finance a better roof over their heads
Second, they bought solar panels to power fans, pumps, or cell phones[11:26]
• These investments increased both resilience and productivity

Potential scale of support: UBI or climate-conditioned insurance

Duflo says that in some very poor countries there is enough climate damage money to fund a universal basic income for everyone[11:40]
• She specifies that this UBI could be large enough that nobody would have to live under the poverty line
For richer middle-income countries, she says there is enough money to fund a form of insurance[11:49]
• Under such an insurance scheme, no one would need to work when the outside temperature is 35 degrees Celsius

Rebuilding trust and forging a new grand bargain on climate

Repairing trust between the West and the rest

Duflo argues that reliably collecting money to pay the moral debt to the world's poorest citizens would do a lot to repair trust[12:00]
• She frames this trust repair specifically as between "the West and the rest"

Why future climate mitigation depends on poorer countries

Duflo asserts that the future of climate mitigation lies in countries that are currently poor[12:14]
• She says that even if OECD countries like the US and Europe manage to reduce their emissions, the climate fight will be lost if countries in Africa, India, and similar regions follow "crazy" high-emission trajectories
She emphasizes that the future of climate action is "here" in these poorer regions and depends on trust[12:56]

Outline of the proposed grand bargain

Duflo calls for a new grand bargain on climate mitigation and adaptation[12:39]
• In this bargain, every poor country would be entitled to damages corresponding to the continued emissions imposed on them
In exchange for damage payments to their citizens, these countries would commit to forceful climate action[12:56]
• She notes that such forceful action could include carbon pricing mechanisms

Closing message: urgency, feasibility, and justice

Duflo describes her proposal as urgent, feasible, and just[13:26]
• She underlines that the plan is not only morally right but also practically achievable given existing tax tools and public support

Call to action directed at billionaires

Duflo directly addresses any billionaires in the audience in Rome or watching her talk[13:12]
• She urges them to stand up and demand a billionaire tax for climate justice
She closes her talk with "Asante, thank you," acknowledging the local Swahili language[13:22]

Outro and context of the TED talk

Context: event, location, and date

Elise Hu states that the talk was given by Esther Duflo at the TED Countdown Summit in Nairobi, Kenya[13:26]
• She specifies that the summit took place in 2025

Reference to TED's curation guidelines

Elise mentions that listeners curious about TED's curation can learn more at a given URL[13:36]
• This underscores that the talk passed TED's research and curation processes

Production credits for the episode

Elise notes that TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective[13:43]
• She states that the talk was fact-checked by the TED Research Team and produced and edited by a named team including Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Greene, Lucy Little, and Tansika Sungmarnivong
She adds that the episode was mixed by Lucy Little, with additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo[13:59]
• Elise closes by saying she will be back tomorrow with a fresh idea and thanks listeners for listening

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Quantifying the real human cost of climate change, even in monetary terms like a value of statistical life, can clarify the scale of our moral and financial obligations and make policy debates more concrete.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What major risks in your life or work have you been treating abstractly that might become clearer if you quantified their potential human and financial costs?
  • • How might explicitly estimating the human impact of a decision change the way you prioritize projects or investments?
  • • What is one decision you're currently facing where assigning rough values to benefits and harms would help you choose more responsibly this week?
2

When problems are too large for philanthropy or market incentives to solve, structured public redistribution from those with the greatest ability to pay becomes a necessary tool.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your organization or community are you implicitly relying on voluntary goodwill to solve issues that may actually require formal, shared commitments?
  • • How could you design contribution structures so that those with more resources or power shoulder a fairer share of collective responsibilities?
  • • What is one system you're involved in where you could advocate for more predictable, rule-based contributions instead of ad hoc generosity?
3

Direct cash transfers, delivered through robust infrastructure like mobile money, can be an efficient way to support resilience and empower people to make the investments that suit their own needs.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In your own work, where might you be over-designing solutions instead of simply giving people the resources and autonomy to solve their own problems?
  • • How could you test a more direct, less conditional form of support in a project you manage and measure its outcomes?
  • • What is one process you control where you could reduce bureaucracy and put more trust and flexibility in the hands of end users this month?
4

Trust between powerful and vulnerable parties is essential for cooperation on global problems, and honoring clear, fair obligations is a prerequisite for building that trust.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where are there trust gaps between you and key partners, customers, or team members that may be blocking deeper collaboration?
  • • How might explicitly acknowledging and addressing past imbalances or debts improve the relationships that matter most to your goals?
  • • What concrete commitment could you make and honor in the next quarter that would signal reliability to someone who currently doubts your intentions?
5

Ambitious structural reforms that once seemed politically impossible can become reality when multiple actors coordinate and design enforceable mechanisms, as seen with the global minimum corporate tax.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which large, systemic change in your field have you dismissed as unrealistic that might actually be more feasible with coordinated effort?
  • • How could you reframe a big challenge you face into a multi-party agreement with built-in enforcement, rather than a unilateral decision?
  • • What is one bold reform idea you could start socializing with peers or stakeholders over the next six months to test its real-world appetite?

Episode Summary - Notes by Morgan

Tax the rich - and save the planet | Esther Duflo
0:00 0:00