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TED Talks Daily

Inside the mind of a newborn baby | Claudia Passos Ferreira

with Claudia Pasos-Ferreira

Published October 20, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Host Elise Hu introduces philosopher, bioethicist, and clinical psychologist Claudia Pasos-Ferreira, who explores when and how consciousness begins in human life. Drawing on recent neuroscience and developmental psychology, Pasos-Ferreira argues that newborns, and possibly late-term fetuses, display brain signatures associated with conscious perception and attention. She discusses the ethical implications of this evidence for medical practice and debates around personhood, and concludes with a broader reflection on consciousness as a "flame of awareness" shared across life and potentially machines.

Topics Covered

Consciousness Philosophy of mind Parenting and child development Perception Attention Neuroscience Bioethics Abortion ethics Fetal development Neonatal surgery

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Quick Takeaways

  • Newborns show brain activity patterns linked to conscious perception, challenging the view that they are passive or unconscious.
  • The audible (oddball) paradigm reveals that even babies a few days old generate a P300-like brain response to unexpected sounds.
  • Newborns display alternating brain networks associated with shifting attention between external stimuli and internal thoughts, similar to adults.
  • Infants exhibit an "attentional blink" similar to adults but on a slower timescale, suggesting active experience of their environment.
  • Late-term fetuses around 35 weeks gestation show brain responses to unexpected sounds resembling those of newborns.
  • Current evidence suggests that consciousness depends on brain structures that emerge after about 24 weeks of gestation.
  • Recognizing infant and fetal consciousness has direct implications for using anesthesia in surgeries on newborns, premature infants, and late-term fetuses.
  • This emerging science complicates simple, binary assumptions about when personhood and consciousness begin.

Podcast Notes

Show introduction and framing of the topic

Host introduces TED Talks Daily and herself

Identification of the show and host[2:35]
• The host says the listener is hearing TED Talks Daily, a show that brings new ideas to spark curiosity every day.
• She identifies herself as Elise Hu.

Framing the core question of the talk

Posing the question of when human consciousness begins[2:40]
• Elise describes the question of when human consciousness begins as "deeply charged" across the world.
Introducing the speaker and her credentials[2:40]
• Elise introduces Claudia Pasos Ferreira as a philosopher, bioethicist, and clinical psychologist.
Summary of talk focus and implications[2:43]
• The host says Claudia challenges traditional views on infant consciousness.
• She notes that Claudia presents research that could reshape understanding of early human development.
• Elise adds that the talk raises important ethical considerations around personhood.

Opening thought experiment: experiencing the world as a newborn

Imagining the newborn's sensory world

Description of the newborn's first experiences[3:17]
• Claudia begins by asking the audience to imagine waking up in a new world.
• She describes eyes opening to bright, confusing lights.
• She mentions ears filled with mysterious sounds.
• Everything around the newborn is portrayed as feeling unfamiliar.
Connecting the scenario to newborn reality[3:17]
• Claudia clarifies that this scenario is the reality of a newborn baby.

Stating the central question: what is it like to be a newborn?

Philosophical interest in newborn experience[3:37]
• She explicitly asks, "So, what is it like to be a newborn?"
• Claudia says that for a philosopher and psychologist like her, this is a fascinating question.
Difficulty of knowing other minds[3:37]
• She notes it is hard enough to know what is going on in an adult's mind.
• She then raises the question of what could be going on in a newborn baby's mind.

Defining consciousness and asking if babies have it

Explicit question about babies' consciousness[3:41]
• Claudia asks whether babies have consciousness, defined as the subjective experience of their mind and the world.
Description of adult consciousness[3:49]
• In adults, she says, consciousness involves experiences of seeing, hearing, and thinking.
• It also includes feelings of pain, pleasure, and emotions.
Questioning whether babies share these experiences[4:00]
• She asks whether babies also have these experiences and feelings that "light up their inner world."

Traditional view of newborns vs. modern developmental findings

Traditional view of newborns as passive or non-conscious

Characterization of the traditional view[4:06]
• Claudia states that the traditional view is that newborns are passive observers of overwhelming chaos.
• She adds that they may not be conscious at all, according to this view.
Historical medical practice illustrating the traditional view[4:06]
• She notes that 50 years ago, doctors routinely performed circumcision without anesthetic.
• This was based on the conviction that newborns' immature brains could not feel pain.

Advances in developmental psychology

Recognition of infants' complex abilities[4:35]
• Claudia says that developmental psychologists have since shown that infants' abilities are much more complex than previously thought.
Ongoing open question about infant consciousness[4:39]
• She emphasizes that despite these advances, the question of infant consciousness has remained open.

Methodological challenge: studying consciousness in non-verbal infants

Limits of self-report and tests for infants

Infants' inability to verbally report experiences[4:44]
• Claudia points out that infants cannot tell us how they feel.
• They cannot describe their thoughts.
Lack of direct consciousness tests for babies[4:56]
• She notes that we certainly cannot give infants a consciousness test.
Posing the methodological question[4:39]
• Claudia asks how we can know what is going on inside infants' minds, given these limitations.

Turning to brain measurement as an answer

Proposal to measure infants' brains[5:01]
• She offers one answer: to measure infants' brains.
Findings from the science of consciousness in adults[5:11]
• Claudia says that over the past few decades, the science of consciousness has revealed much about the brain bases of consciousness in adults.
• Researchers have found neurosignals that are only active when an adult is consciously perceiving a stimulus.
Extending these findings to infants[5:26]
• She reports that neuroscientists have recently found the same neurosignals in infants' brains.
• These neurosignals in infants provide powerful new evidence that infants might be actively experiencing their surroundings from a remarkably early age.

The audible (oddball) paradigm and evidence of infant conscious perception

Explanation of the audible paradigm

Describing the experimental setup[5:41]
• Claudia introduces the audible paradigm as an innovative experiment in neuroscience.
• She explains that it tests how the brain reacts when something unexpected happens.
• In the paradigm, participants hear the same sequence of sounds: "beep-beep-beep-boop" repeated.
• Suddenly, the familiar pattern is interrupted by a different sequence: "beep-beep-beep-beep."
Brain response to the unexpected sound[6:20]
• Claudia says that instantly, the brain detects the surprise.
• This detection produces a measurable brain signal called the P300 wave.

Linking the audible response to consciousness

Consciousness-dependent nature of the response[6:20]
• Claudia states that this audible response to an unexpected sequence of sounds occurs when an individual is conscious.
• She notes that people in deep sleep do not show this response.
• People in comas also do not show it.
Finding the response in newborns[6:48]
• Claudia contrasts those cases with newborn babies, saying that newborns do have this response.
• She credits neuroscientist Linda Han with finding that babies just a few days old show the same type of brain activity in response to the audible sequence of sounds.
Implication for infant conscious expectations[7:00]
• Claudia says this suggests that right from birth, infants might be truly experiencing conscious perceptions.
• She adds they might also be forming conscious expectations.

Attention-based evidence of consciousness in infants

Attention networks and switching between internal and external focus

Attention-related brain networks in conscious adults[7:11]
• Claudia explains that in conscious adults' brains, different types of networks alternate their activity when we switch our attention between the external world and internal thoughts.
• She gives the everyday example that one might focus on the speaker for a while and then daydream for a while.
Observation of similar network alternation in newborns[7:39]
• Claudia says it turns out infants do the same sort of thing.
• She reports that neuroscientist Florin Anacci observed the same type of alternation between these networks in newborn brains.
• This suggests that switches in the focus of internal and external awareness are present right from birth.

Attentional blink in infants

Defining attentional blink in adults[8:11]
• Claudia describes that when our minds intensely focus on one thing, they usually become blind to something that happens immediately afterward.
• She says this phenomenon is called attentional blink.
Attentional blink in infants and its timing[8:11]
• Infants experience this phenomenon too, but in slow motion.
• At three months old, infants take nearly a full second to shift their attention from one visual cue to another.
• Claudia contrasts this with adults, who can manage this shift much faster.
Brain responses accompanying infant attentional blink[8:33]
• She notes that infants show the same type of brain response when this attentional blink happens.
• Claudia says this strongly hints that infants are actively experiencing their environment.

Evidence of possible consciousness before birth

Brain patterns in premature infants

Initial hint from premature infant data[8:50]
• Claudia mentions that researchers have found relevant brain patterns in premature infants.
• She says this finding makes one wonder whether consciousness could begin before birth.

Applying the audible test to late-term fetuses

Reusing the audible paradigm with fetuses[9:13]
• Claudia recalls that she previously described how scientists applied the audible test to newborns.
• She explains that scientists applied the same test to late-term fetuses around 35 weeks into pregnancy.
Striking results in fetal brain responses[9:18]
• Claudia describes the results as striking.
• Fetuses showed the same type of brain response that was found in newborns.
Implication for fetal awareness in the womb[9:38]
• Claudia concludes that even before birth and entering the world, babies seem capable of consciously processing sounds.
• She says this means their awareness might develop while they are still in the womb.

Ethical and practical implications of infant and fetal consciousness

General categories of implications

Areas affected by the findings[9:40]
• Claudia says these results have potential implications scientifically, medically, and ethically.

Implications for surgery and anesthesia

Need for anesthetic in procedures on infants and fetuses[9:56]
• She states that, to start, we now know that when performing surgery in newborns, premature infants, or late-term fetuses, anesthetic should be given.

Relation to the abortion debate and gestational timeline

Acknowledging audience concerns about abortion[10:06]
• Claudia notes that many listeners will be thinking about the abortion debate.
Evidence about when consciousness-related brain structures emerge[10:15]
• She stresses that the strongest evidence is that consciousness requires brain structures that emerge after 24 weeks of gestation.
• She adds that this is a time when abortion is rare.
Scope of the new fetal evidence[10:26]
• Claudia says the new evidence might extend to fetuses in the third trimester of gestation.
• She clarifies that it does not extend earlier than that.
Status of this scientific understanding[10:38]
• She describes this as a new understanding and emphasizes that it is a work in progress.

Reframing how we see newborn babies

From passive creatures to tiny humans with meaningful interaction

Rejecting the idea of newborns as passive[10:45]
• Claudia says this new understanding might change our picture of newborn babies.
• She argues they are not passive creatures waiting for consciousness to switch on.
Affirming newborns as active perceivers[9:56]
• She describes newborns as tiny humans already perceiving patterns.
• Claudia adds that they are interacting with the world in a meaningful way.

Broader reflection on consciousness across the lifespan and beyond

Consciousness unfolding over a human life

Dynamic nature of consciousness and self[11:03]
• Claudia says that as human life unfolds, consciousness unfolds with it.
• She notes that our sense of ourselves grows and changes.
• She describes consciousness as waxing and waning until one day it ends.

Metaphor of consciousness as a flame of awareness

Individual lives lit by awareness[11:23]
• Claudia states that from the moment we take our first breath to the moment of our deaths, our lives are lit by the flame of awareness.

Sharing consciousness with animals and possibly machines

Extending the metaphor beyond humans[10:51]
• She says we share this flame with other animals.
• She adds that we might one day share it with machines.

Collective conscious minds and enduring light of consciousness

Collective illumination of the universe[11:37]
• Claudia says that collectively, our conscious minds illuminate the universe.
Consciousness as recurring in new lives[11:43]
• She acknowledges that the flame of individual consciousness eventually fades.
• Claudia asserts that the light of consciousness never disappears.
• She says it is rekindled with each new life in the "endless dance of existence."
Conclusion of the talk[12:15]
• She ends with "Thank you."

Host outro and production credits

Identifying the speaker and event

Speaker name and TED event[11:41]
• Elise says, "That was Claudia Pasos-Ferreira speaking at TED 2025."

Reference to TED's curation guidelines

Pointer to more information on TED curation[12:11]
• Elise tells listeners that if they are curious about TED's curation, they can find out more at ted.com slash curation guidelines.

Closing the episode and credits

Sign-off for the day[12:10]
• She says that is it for today.
Production and fact-checking credits[12:18]
• Elise notes that TED Talks Daily is part of the TED Audio Collective.
• She says the talk was fact-checked by the TED Research Team.
• She lists producers and editors: Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian (surname not provided in the transcript segment), Lucy Little, and Tansika Sangmarnivong.
• She mentions that the episode was mixed by Christopher Faisy-Bogan.
• She adds that there was additional support from Emma Taubner and Daniela Balarezo.
Host farewell[12:31]
• Elise repeats her name and says she will be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for the listener's feed.
• She thanks the audience for listening.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Assumptions about what others can feel or experience, especially when they cannot speak for themselves, should be tested against empirical evidence rather than taken for granted.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your life are you relying on untested assumptions about what others know, feel, or perceive?
  • • How could you bring more observation, data, or direct feedback into areas where you currently "just assume" you understand someone else's experience?
  • • What is one relationship or context this week where you could pause and question your default assumptions before acting?
2

When scientific understanding evolves, ethical practices and policies need to be revisited and updated to reflect what is newly known.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What long-standing practices in your work or community might be based on outdated information or beliefs?
  • • How might you build a habit of periodically reviewing your decisions and policies in light of new evidence or research?
  • • What is one concrete procedure, norm, or rule you could re-examine this month to ensure it still aligns with current knowledge and values?
3

Complex phenomena like consciousness and development often unfold gradually rather than switching on at a single moment, so binary thinking can obscure important nuances.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what situations do you tend to think in oversimplified "on/off" or "all-or-nothing" terms when a spectrum might be more accurate?
  • • How could recognizing gradual change or partial states help you make better decisions about people, projects, or policies you influence?
  • • What is one current issue you care about where mapping out a continuum instead of a binary could clarify your own stance?
4

Recognizing that infants and even late-term fetuses may have conscious experiences calls for greater care in how we design, deliver, and question the procedures that affect them.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How might your attitude or behavior toward very young children change if you treated them as already actively experiencing and interpreting their world?
  • • Where in your professional or personal sphere are there vulnerable individuals whose subjective experiences may not be fully considered in decisions?
  • • What is one specific practice, protocol, or habit you could adjust to better account for the possibility of unspoken or unexpressed experiences in others?

Episode Summary - Notes by Hayden

Inside the mind of a newborn baby | Claudia Passos Ferreira
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