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TED Talks Daily

How to raise confident kids in an age of anxiety | Lenore Skenazy

with Lenore Skenazy

Published October 11, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Journalist and free-range parenting advocate Lenore Skenazy discusses why children's independence has dramatically shrunk over recent decades and how this shift is linked to rising anxiety and depression among kids. She explains the cultural and media forces that fueled overprotective parenting, outlines concrete steps for parents, schools, and communities to safely restore age-appropriate freedom, and describes legal reforms like the Reasonable Childhood Independence Law. The conversation emphasizes how letting kids do things on their own builds competence, confidence, and resilience while revitalizing neighborhoods and preparing young people for adult life and work.

Topics Covered

Child independence Parenting and child development Unstructured play Anxiety Confidence Resilience Mental health Social media and online platforms Community building

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Children today have far less freedom to roam and do things on their own than previous generations, and research links this loss of independence to higher levels of anxiety and depression.
  • Media-fueled fear of rare crimes, especially since the 1980s, has normalized constant supervision and made many everyday childhood activities seem dangerously risky.
  • Short, age-appropriate independent tasks-like running a small errand or playing outside with friends-can quickly build kids' confidence and rewire parents' perceptions of what their children can handle.
  • Collective efforts through schools, neighborhood initiatives, and shared norms make it much easier for individual parents to grant independence without feeling judged or reckless.
  • Legal changes such as Reasonable Childhood Independence laws help protect both free-range and low-income parents from being accused of neglect simply for allowing children to be alone briefly.
  • Defaulting to trust-of kids' competence and of other adults in the community-creates healthier children, stronger neighborhoods, and more capable future workers.
  • Limiting screen time is most effective when paired with opening the door to real-world, unsupervised play and socializing.
  • Small mistakes or mishaps during independent experiences are not failures but the key moments that teach children they can cope, adapt, and solve problems.

Podcast Notes

Show introduction and framing of the topic

Host introduces TED Talks Daily and the central parenting question

Elise Hu describes the show as bringing new ideas to spark curiosity every day[2:37]
She poses the question of what happens when kids are allowed to take risks and solve problems on their own[2:42]

Introduction of Lenore Skenazy and the free-range kids story

Lenore is introduced as a journalist and founder of the free-range kids movement[2:47]
Elise notes Lenore was dubbed "America's Worst Mom" after letting her nine-year-old son ride the New York City subway alone and writing about it[3:01]
This conversation is framed as a follow-up to Lenore's 2025 TED talk, digging further into raising independent kids in a tech-heavy, safety-obsessed age[3:04]

Origin of the 'America's Worst Mom' label and the subway story

Whitney asks why the subway story struck such a cultural nerve

Lenore notes her son is now 27, so she's reflected on this for a long time[3:54]
She had previously written columns about letting her kids play in the courtyard, ride elevators alone, and her two boys going to the men's room without her, and no one cared about those columns[4:40]
She believes the key difference was the New York City subway, which many people perceive as dangerous or like "hell"[4:56]
The story was not just about advocating independence in theory but actually doing it "pedal to the metal" by letting him ride alone[5:08]
Her son loved the experience, and it came from his desire to do it, not from the parents trying to toughen him up, which highlighted that kids have their own wishes for independence[5:07]

Continued public fascination with kids going places alone

Whitney observes that, years later, people remain obsessed and concerned about letting kids go on their own[5:43]

Defining what 'free-range kids' means and evidence of shrinking independence

Lenore defines 'free-range kids'

She describes free-range kids as the belief that children can do some things on their own, similar to what today's parents and especially grandparents experienced in childhood[5:48]
What is strange today, she says, is that kids do almost nothing on their own[6:12]

Harris Poll data on modern children's restricted movement

Lenore cites a Let Grow-commissioned study with the Harris Poll showing that a majority of kids aged 8-12 rarely or never walk around their own neighborhood without an adult[6:26]
More than 50% of those kids had never gone to another aisle in a grocery store without an adult[6:31]
About 25% were not allowed to play on their own front lawn[6:37]

Daily Mail example of shrinking 'right to roam'

Lenore describes a Daily Mail story titled "How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Four Generations" that used a map and interviews with four generations of a family[6:57]
The great-grandfather, age 88, roamed six miles in any direction as a child[7:06]
The grandfather, 66, went about a mile to a fishing hole[7:10]
The mother, in her 40s, walked about half a mile to school[7:16]
Her 8-year-old son was not allowed off his block or possibly not off his yard, showing childhood "shrinking"[7:30]
Free Range Kids and Let Grow aim to make it easy, normal, and legal to widen kids' range again and trust them with independence[7:33]

Why modern parenting became safety- and control-obsessed

Cultural shift beginning in the 1980s

Lenore locates the big change in parenting norms in the 1980s and 1990s[7:59]
Cable television created a 24-hour news cycle, which required constant, compelling, often upsetting content to keep viewers engaged[8:22]
This period coincided with an increasing cultural obsession with "stranger danger"[8:43]

High-profile child abduction cases and media impact

In 1979, New York boy Etan Patz was abducted from a bus stop and never seen again[8:52]
• Lenore notes that initially the public assumed a lonely woman had taken him home to raise as her own; people were not yet thinking in terms of sexual predators
Over time, as information spread, people became shocked by the idea of such a "weird and horrible" crime by a predator[9:26]
In 1982, Adam Walsh was abducted from outside a Sears in Florida, and a miniseries based on his case broke ratings records[9:38]
Media organizations, which exist partly to make money, recognized that these stories captivated audiences and sought more similar content[9:49]
She points to the long-running popularity of "Law & Order" and its focus on depraved crimes as evidence of continual appetite for such stories[10:17]

Resulting parental risk perception distortion

Lenore argues that constant exposure to terrifying crime stories fills people with despair and makes extremely rare events seem common[10:14]
She cites a Harris Poll in which 50% of parents, when asked what was likely to happen to two 10-year-olds playing in a park together, answered that they were likely to be kidnapped[10:51]
She emphasizes this fear is wildly out of line with reality, but it arises from the media "drumbeat of terror" people are marinating in[10:59]

Hidden costs of overprotective parenting for kids

Rising anxiety and depression linked to less independence

Lenore notes that kids today are sad, anxious, and depressed, and that this trend predates COVID, smartphones, and No Child Left Behind[11:40]
Her Let Grow co-founder Peter Gray, a psychology professor at Boston College, published a Journal of Pediatrics study showing that as kids' independence and free play decreased from the 1950s to now, anxiety and depression rose[11:44]
Gray argues the relationship is causal, not just correlational[11:47]

Childhood as micromanaged work environment

Lenore compares over-managed childhood to a job where a boss constantly hovers, corrects, and sets deadlines, which nobody wants[12:26]
She says childhood has become similarly micromanaged, with adults doing almost everything with and for children out of worry[12:28]

Internal vs external locus of control in kids

Lenore describes an external locus of control as having someone else always deciding how you spend your day and judging whether it's good enough[12:38]
An internal locus of control is when a child decides to pursue something-like looking for bugs, practicing free throws, or skateboarding-and follows through[12:37]
When kids act on intrinsic desires and handle outcomes, even imperfect ones, they feel capable and "on top of the world"[13:08]
Overprotection puts kids in the "passenger seat" of their own lives, with helpful adults "driving" them toward what adults think is important[13:34]

"I did it myself" as a key to resilience and anxiety reduction

Why self-directed risk-taking matters

Lenore calls "I did it myself" childhood's magic words and the original anxiety buster[13:59]
She notes most adults can recall a childhood moment when they did something scary on their own and still feel proud of it[14:23]

Anecdotes of childhood mishaps handled without parents

At an education conference, a woman recalled biking down a pine needle-covered hill; when her handlebars came off at high speed, she decided in a split second to throw herself into a bush, got scraped, fixed the bike, and kept riding[14:39]
Several audience members shared memories of risky situations-like getting lost on a hike and hitchhiking back, or playing mumbly peg and cutting a foot-where they deliberately hid the incident from their parents[15:50]
• They concealed these events because they feared parents would respond by restricting their independence, which they valued highly
Lenore concludes kids are both protecting their independence and telling themselves, "look what I can handle," which is the opposite of anxiety[16:07]

Modern barriers to trying and failing

She says anxiety is driven by thoughts like "this seems hard," "if I mess up it will be terrible," and "I might as well not do it"[16:15]
Lenore notes Nike recently added "Why do it" as a slogan alongside "Just do it," reflecting kids' fear of messing up and being watched or recorded[16:27]
Constant adult supervision and evaluation create high stakes, discouraging kids from attempting things where they might look foolish or get hurt[16:44]
She argues the culture is replacing the child-driven aspects of childhood with adult-run, adult-oriented, adult-supervised activities, leading kids to wait passively for instructions[17:18]

Practical first steps for granting kids more freedom

Why withholding all independence is itself reckless

Lenore argues it is not reckless to give children some freedom; instead, it is reckless not to, given the mental health costs discussed[18:01]

Examples of hyper-safety norms that constrain parents

Some schools will not let kids off the bus unless a parent is present to walk them home, even if the distance is only a couple of houses or blocks[18:26]
Lenore recounts a district where buses stop at each house and still require parents to come to the end of the driveway; waving from a window is not accepted[18:42]
She mentions children's Skechers shoes designed with a hole under the insole for a tracking device, illustrating how normalized constant surveillance has become[19:14]

Collective action through schools: The Let Grow Experience

Lenore says the easiest way to change is collectively, so parents don't feel like the lone "crazy" one letting their child do something independently[19:46]
Let Grow, the nonprofit that grew out of Free Range Kids, encourages schools to assign the free Let Grow Experience as homework[19:35]
The assignment: each child must go home and do something new on their own, with parental permission but without parental presence[19:46]
• Suggested tasks include climbing a tree, making pancakes, walking to a store, or getting themselves to lessons-everyday independence scaled to the family
When all third graders are running small errands or traveling to lessons themselves, one parent isn't singled out, and kids and parents talk to each other, renormalizing letting go[20:09]

Letting go also rewires the parent

Lenore explains that seeing a child return from an errand-successful or imperfect-changes the parent's perception of what the child can handle[20:24]
She shares a story of a mother who let her six-year-old go into a grocery store to buy items for dinner; he emerged with only cookies but proud he had calculated the change[20:35]
• Despite minor disappointment about the dinner plan, the mother was proud of his initiative and math, and they reviewed the change together
Lenore says parents' hearts "grow three sizes" when they see their kids succeed or even partially succeed alone, and that parents often must let go a bit before they feel fully ready[21:53]
She emphasizes that current intense supervision is new and unnecessary, and it burdens both children and parents by making parenting an all-consuming, vigilance-based role[21:23]

Handling judgment and recruiting other adults

Advice for parents who feel judged or alone

Lenore suggests finding a friend and practicing small independence experiments together, such as two parents sitting at Starbucks while their kids run an errand at the other end of a strip mall[22:47]
Doing it with another family provides social support and makes the experience more fun for the children[22:35]

Four Weeks to a Let Grow Kid kit

Lenore mentions Let Grow's free "Four Weeks to a Let Grow Kid" kit available on their site[23:13]
Week one focuses on kids doing for themselves tasks parents have been doing-like tying shoes or managing departures, or baking cookies and removing them from the oven[23:22]
Another week focuses on getting around the neighborhood, another on doing something with a friend; she admits she does not recall the exact fourth week but notes families can discover it themselves[23:36]

Neighborhood initiatives: Free Play Fridays

She describes a child who organized "Free Play Friday" by distributing postcards inviting kids (without grownups) to a local park at a set time[23:47]
To his surprise, about 20 kids showed up and played various games, producing a scene that reminded Lenore of the Peanuts gang[24:22]
She suggests using neighborhood listservs, Nextdoor, or Facebook to coordinate similar weekly free play times, especially on Fridays leading into the weekend[24:36]

Neighborhood "friendship clubs"

Lenore recounts a California mother who created a "friendship club" by coordinating with families of three or four neighborhood kids[24:57]
The agreement: if a child knocks and the resident child is free, they can play without prior scheduling; parents understand this is not an imposition and can reciprocate[25:12]
The arrangement gives a child multiple doors they can knock on and supports spontaneous outdoor play and trips to the park, helping "re-knit" the neighborhood[25:56]
She notes, echoing Peter Gray, that children are attracted not just by physical spaces but by other children; once some kids are out, others join for play and for walking to school[25:51]

Grandparents, free play, and screens

How grandparents can support independence without undermining parents

Lenore empathizes with grandparents who remember freer childhoods but see tightly scheduled grandchildren[26:37]
She suggests sharing Peter Gray's TEDx talk to help parents see unsupervised free time as educational rather than wasted[26:52]
She frames free play as where kids learn to make friends, compromise, explain ideas, and be creative, speaking to parents' focus on development and advantage[27:10]

Harris Poll on kids' preferences: free play vs organized vs online

In the Harris survey, children aged 8-12 were asked how they would prefer to hang out with friends: free unstructured play, organized activities, or online interaction[27:21]
The overwhelming majority preferred free, old-fashioned play with friends, with no adults and no set agenda[28:02]
Organized activities were the second choice, and being online with friends came a distant third[28:46]
Lenore notes this counters the belief that kids only want screens; she says they wouldn't be on them as much if they had better real-world alternatives[28:52]

"If you want to take away the screen, you have to open the door"

Lenore quotes a phrase used with her Let Grow co-founder Jonathan Haidt: if you want to remove the screen, you must open the door to outside experiences[29:24]

Calibrating independence vs stress: independence therapy

Stress is a normal part of learning independence

Lenore rejects the idea that children should live without fear, noting that fear, stress, and stage fright are part of everyday life for children and adults[30:22]
She mentions that some people even oppose Halloween due to scary costumes, which she views as an unrealistic expectation of a fear-free existence[30:16]

Independence therapy for anxious kids

Lenore explains that "independence therapy" is a new approach where kids with an anxiety diagnosis are given new, independent tasks to do[30:38]
Psychology professor Camilo Ortiz of Long Island University ran a pilot study with four families, first interviewing parents about behaviors that most bothered them[30:53]
One case involved a nine-year-old who would not go upstairs or downstairs in his own house without a parent, a pattern Lenore has since heard about in other families[31:06]
Instead of traditional cognitive behavioral therapy focusing on the fear (e.g., incremental alone time upstairs), Ortiz reframed sessions around exciting new things the child was ready to do independently[31:22]
Kids responded with ambitious ideas like taking the Long Island Railroad or walking home alone[31:46]
One girl, afraid to sleep in her own bed, chose to take a city bus alone as her challenge[32:01]
• During her bus trip, her phone stopped working, she panicked about where to get off, then accepted help from a woman whose phone still worked and who told her she had missed her stop and how to walk back
• That same night, the girl slept in her own bed, which Lenore notes sounds almost too perfect but really occurred

Why mishaps are powerful for confidence

Lenore says psychology views messing up during independent tasks as "great" because it teaches kids they can handle problems and that errors are not the end of the world[32:46]
She links this directly to the Nike "Why do it" mentality, arguing that recognizing mistakes as mere hiccups, not doom, is freeing and encourages action[33:05]

Benefits of independence for workplaces and wider community

Impact on future workers and innovation

Lenore cites stories about young workers who are conscientious but wait for instructions because they are so accustomed to being directed[33:51]
She mentions schools where kids wait to be told where to write their name on a paper or won't pick up a dropped pencil without explicit permission[34:01]
She references NASA's experience when boomer engineers retired: new hires excelled at computers and problem sets but struggled when things went "off script," unlike earlier tinkerers[34:46]
She argues workplaces need people who grew up tinkering, trying things, and being scrappy and self-sufficient[35:02]

Neighborhood vitality and joy

Lenore notes that when kids are visible in neighborhoods-laughing, arguing, playing-it makes the area feel alive and heartwarming, regardless of whether you have children[34:40]
In contrast, when children are always driven and disappear into garages and homes, streets feel empty, like "tumbleweeds" are blowing through[35:25]

Legal reforms: Reasonable Childhood Independence Law

Content and purpose of the law

Lenore explains that the Reasonable Childhood Independence Law defines neglect as putting a child in obvious and serious danger, not merely taking one's eyes off them[36:21]
The law protects free-range parents who allow kids to wander or bike like characters in "Stranger Things" and also supports parents living in poverty who rely on kids' basic independence, such as latchkey arrangements[36:29]
She gives the example of an eight-year-old coming home with a key and getting a glass of milk or almond milk while a parent works two jobs; this should not be deemed neglect[36:46]

Status and future of the law

At the time of her TED talk, she says eight states had passed the law; since then, three more-Georgia, Florida, and Missouri-have passed it[36:59]
The law is being considered in eight more states, and she hopes for eventual federal legislation with the same standard[37:07]
She criticizes the current "if you see something, say something" climate, where people may call 911 simply for seeing a child outside, and suggests operators should ask if the child is actually okay and end the matter if so[37:21]

Shifting community mindset toward trust and mutual aid

Reframing adult responsibility toward kids in public

Lenore responds to concerns that if a child on a skateboard falls in front of someone's house, that homeowner is forced into babysitting; she counters that helping with a Band-Aid or a phone call is just being part of a community[37:54]
She argues this is not a parent shirking all responsibility but neighbors being nice to a child, as one would hope others would be to your own child or to you when you are old[37:54]

Benefits of defaulting to trust vs suspicion

Lenore urges giving people the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming any man at a park is a predator or any alone child is neglected[38:46]
She cites a study where parents who told children the world is "dog eat dog" and everyone will take advantage were compared to parents who told kids most people are decent and can be trusted[39:01]
Following the children into middle age, researchers found those raised with a hostile-world message had worse relationships, worse health, and less professional success[39:31]
She concludes that defaulting to trust not only makes life more pleasant but is associated with better long-term outcomes[38:57]

Practical concerns about safety and crossing streets

Teaching kids to cross safely and working with infrastructure

In response to a question from a parent of four- and six-year-olds about letting them go to a park two blocks away, Lenore acknowledges cars are a major concern[39:51]
She recalls being taught in kindergarten to look left, right, then left again before crossing and recommends teaching this rule to children[40:42]
She suggests advocating for crosswalks through local government but cautions against letting the lack of perfect infrastructure become a reason to avoid all independence[40:56]
She notes that two kids together, holding hands, listening, and looking both ways, can cross safely because they are human beings capable of judgment[41:05]

Let Grow license card for kids

Lenore describes the free Let Grow license card available on their website that children can carry when out alone[41:23]
The card states that the child is not lost or neglected, that parents know they are out, and includes a phone number for a skeptical adult to call[41:37]
It explains the child is allowed to talk to people but not go off with anyone and thanks any adult who is concerned for caring about the child's safety[41:51]
Lenore says this framing recognizes concerned adults as allies rather than adversaries trying to get parents in trouble[41:51]
She reiterates that organizing collective activities like free play Fridays and distributing notes can habituate both kids and parents to independent movement and safe street crossing[42:30]

Reasons for hope and cultural change

From "America's Worst Mom" to TED speaker

Lenore says she had been trying to get a TED talk for 17 years, and now, in year 17, she finally has one, which she sees as legitimizing her message[43:36]
She recalls being labeled America's Worst Mom and being voted the most controversial (mommy) blogger in America, but believes attitudes are shifting toward seeing the value of trusting kids[44:01]

Kids' innate drive and Let Grow's slogan

Lenore emphasizes that children naturally want to explore and take on the world, which is why they progress from crawling to walking[44:25]
She summarizes Let Grow's slogan: "When adults step back, kids step up"[44:26]
She jokingly notes that if something is trending on TikTok, it must be important, using TikTok as a lighthearted sign that ideas about independence may be spreading[44:36]

Conversation wrap-up and credits

Closing remarks from Whitney and Lenore

Whitney notes they did not reach all of her questions or all member questions and thanks Lenore and the audience members who submitted questions[44:57]
Lenore jokes about how hosts often say "we could talk for so much longer" as a way to end the conversation, and Whitney clarifies she genuinely had more to ask[44:42]
Whitney expresses excitement to see more of Lenore in the TED space, and Lenore thanks Whitney and TED[45:02]

Host outro and context of the event

Elise Hu explains that the conversation was a TED membership event in 2025 between Lenore Skenazy and Whitney Pennington-Rogers[45:16]
She mentions listeners can learn about TED's curation guidelines at TED.com/curationguidelines and briefly credits the production and mixing team[45:28]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Granting children age-appropriate independence-like walking around the neighborhood, running small errands, or playing without adults-builds their internal locus of control and reduces anxiety by letting them experience, "I can handle this" firsthand.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is one everyday task I currently do for a child that they could realistically start doing on their own with some coaching?
  • • How might my child's confidence and mood change if I intentionally created weekly opportunities for them to tackle small challenges solo?
  • • What specific independent activity will I experiment with this month, and how will I debrief it with my child afterward to reinforce what they handled well?
2

Small mistakes and mishaps during independent experiences are not failures to avoid but essential moments that teach children they can cope, adapt, and recover when things go off script.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When have I recently stepped in too quickly to prevent a child from struggling, and what learning opportunity might that have removed?
  • • How could I reframe minor errors (like buying the wrong item or getting a bit lost) as successes in problem-solving rather than proof that independence was a bad idea?
  • • What is one concrete way I can signal to my child this week that messing up is expected and useful, not something to fear or be ashamed of?
3

Changing overprotective norms is far easier and more sustainable when done collectively-through schools, neighborhood initiatives, and shared agreements-so no single parent feels like the reckless outlier.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in my existing network (school, neighbors, extended family) might be open to trying a shared experiment like a Free Play Friday or a simple independence assignment?
  • • How would my comfort level shift if I knew several other families on my block were also letting their kids walk to the park or store together?
  • • What is one small, low-friction step I can take this month to start a conversation with other adults about normalizing kids' independence in our community?
4

Defaulting to trust-trusting that most adults are allies and that children are capable-creates healthier relationships, stronger communities, and better long-term outcomes than raising kids to see the world as uniformly hostile.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my current parenting or community interactions do I automatically assume bad intent instead of considering a more generous interpretation?
  • • How might my child's worldview and future relationships improve if I spoke more often about decent people we've encountered and less about rare worst-case scenarios?
  • • What is one situation this week where I can consciously choose to model defaulting to trust, while still being appropriately prudent about real risks?
5

If you want to reduce kids' dependence on screens, you must pair limits with real-world alternatives by literally and figuratively opening the door to unsupervised free play and in-person friendships.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What specific offline, unstructured options are actually available to my child right now when I say "no" to a screen?
  • • How could I adjust our routines or environment-such as connecting with neighbors or using a nearby park-to make offline play the easiest and most attractive default?
  • • What one change can I implement this week that simultaneously constrains screen time and actively expands my child's opportunities to be outside with peers?
6

Preparing children for adult life and work requires letting them practice initiative, experimentation, and problem-solving now, rather than training them to wait passively for instructions.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what ways do I currently reward compliance and waiting for direction more than initiative and self-starting in the kids I influence?
  • • How might I design small projects or responsibilities-at home, school, or in a youth group-that require kids to make decisions without step-by-step guidance?
  • • What is one context in the coming weeks where I can intentionally step back, resist over-directing, and let a child or teen figure out the "how" on their own?

Episode Summary - Notes by Reese

How to raise confident kids in an age of anxiety | Lenore Skenazy
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