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Stuff You Should Know

Short Stuff: Victorian Flower Language

Published November 19, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Josh and Chuck discuss floriography, the elaborate language of flowers that was especially popular during the Victorian and Regency eras. They trace its roots to the Ottoman Empire, explain how specific flowers, colors, arrangements, and even how bouquets were held or accepted communicated complex coded messages. The hosts illustrate how this system was used in literature and courtship, highlighting both its nuance and its potential for confusion.

Topics Covered

Floriography Victorian era Flower symbolism Nonverbal communication Ottoman Empire Jane Austen Social etiquette Cultural inheritance Coded messages Nosegays and tussie-mussies

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Quick Takeaways

  • Floriography is a formalized language of flowers used to send coded messages, especially in the Victorian and Regency eras when certain topics were considered inappropriate to speak aloud.
  • The practice has roots in a 17th-century Ottoman tradition called Selam, where members of a harem communicated with flowers and rhymes.
  • Victorian floriography could encode meaning not just in flower type and color, but also in the bouquet's condition, orientation, ribbon placement, and how it was accepted.
  • The same flower could carry multiple, even opposite, meanings depending on which floriography guidebook one used, making miscommunication a real risk.
  • Literary authors like Jane Austen and the Brontë sisters used flower symbolism to deepen character development and relationships that contemporary readers would have recognized.
  • Nosegays or tussie-mussies-small, tightly bound bouquets of flowers and herbs-were common carriers of complex, multi-layered messages.
  • Many flowers had strong negative meanings as well, allowing people to silently express jealousy, distrust, hatred, or rejection.
  • The elaborate rules around how flowers were given and received show how rich nonverbal communication systems can become when direct speech is socially constrained.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and setup of the floriography topic

Hosts and episode framing

Josh introduces the Short Stuff segment with Chuck as co-host[1:14]
• Josh says, "Hey, and welcome to The Short Stuff," and identifies himself and Chuck, noting that it's just the two of them for this short episode.
Playful thank-you for a symbolic bouquet[1:21]
• Chuck jokingly thanks Josh for sending a "beautiful nosegay of wilted white roses delivered upside down with a ribbon to the left."
Discussion of where a nosegay is worn[1:21]
• Josh asks where on Chuck's chest he is wearing the nosegay, and Chuck responds that it is near his bodice, "right in the center."
Implication of flower placement for relationship status[2:11]
• Josh interprets the center placement as meaning that they are good friends, which he says he can live with.

Initial mention of the need for a flower code "decoder"

Reference to decoding flower meanings[2:11]
• Chuck jokes he would need to get out a "decoder book or whatever" to interpret all the elements of the bouquet Josh "sent."

Overview of floriography and its historical popularity

Defining floriography

Floriography introduced as the episode's main topic[1:57]
• Josh states they are talking about floriography and that there were many floriography books.
Time period and regions where floriography thrived[1:57]
• Josh says floriography was a huge deal in the Victorian and Regency eras.
• He roughly situates its popularity as "between a couple of decades on either side of the 19th and 20th century divide," which he jokingly calls the DMZ of those centuries.
• He notes that during this period it was very popular to send unspoken messages using flowers.

Reason for using unspoken codes

Social constraints on spoken communication[2:20]
• Chuck explains that in the UK, parts of the US, Europe, and certain high societies, it was often considered untoward to speak certain things aloud.
• He says people needed a coded way to talk to each other.
Depth of the flower code[3:27]
• Chuck contrasts casual modern ideas of sending flowers with the historical practice, emphasizing that it is literally a code with many layers.
• He and Josh reference symbolic details like orientation (upside down), whether flowers are wilted, and ribbon placement, saying "all that stuff means something."

Sources used for the episode and basic historical origin

Acknowledgment of research sources

List of specific sources[2:59]
• Josh credits several sources: Farmer's Almanac, Iowa State University Extension, Petal Republic, "Author Sarah" on Substack, Clive Rose, Georgina Garden Center, "Thursday, just the D," Flower Meaning, and Historical Holly.
• He thanks all of these sources for helping with the episode.

Early non-European origins: Ottoman Selam

Selam in the Ottoman Empire[3:32]
• Chuck says coded messages through flowers go back at least to the 1600s in the Ottoman Empire.
• He describes a tradition called Selam (or Selam, spelled S-E-L-A-M), a game between members of the harem in Constantinople.
• In Selam, participants would send flowers attached with rhymes and meanings to communicate with one another.
Role of literacy limitations in the harem[3:38]
• Josh notes that this practice made sense because many of the harem members could not read or write, so flowers "did the talking for them."
Transmission of the practice to Europe[3:59]
• Josh explains that the practice spread from the Ottoman Empire to Europe via a single person: a British aristocrat married to the British ambassador to Turkey.
• Her name is given as Lady Mary Wortley.
• Josh says she moved to Constantinople and wrote letters to friends and family describing exotic customs, including the flower code used by harem workers.
• He states that someone received her letter about Selam and decided they wanted to tell everyone in the UK about it.

Victorian popularity, gender, and literary connections

Puns about botany and floriography's status

Revisiting puns from a previous episode[4:40]
• Josh references an earlier "Operation Paul Bunyan" episode where Chuck made puns like "the code stems back" and "botany was a growing field."
Who primarily practiced floriography[5:19]
• Chuck says botany was a growing field and floriography was popular among certain classes, mainly upper-class women.
• He notes that the kinds of things communicated with floriography were not considered appropriate to talk about openly in that class.

Connection to Jane Austen and Brontë literature

Curiosity about Jane Austen adaptations[5:35]
• Chuck mentions his partner Emily is, like many Gen X women, obsessed with Jane Austen and related works like "Sense and Sensibility."
• He says he has never watched those series or movies and wonders if they explicitly point out floriography, such as characters commenting on how flowers were sent and what that meant.
Authors' use of floriography as a literary device[5:57]
• Chuck states that the Brontë sisters and Jane Austen used a lot of floriography to help develop their characters.
• Josh adds that readers at the time would have picked up on this symbolism, but that floriography has become so arcane and obscure that modern readers usually would not.
Reading older works differently with floriography knowledge[6:14]
• Josh notes that if someone learns about floriography and then reads Jane Austen, the flower symbolism will start to show up to them.
Question of explicit explanation in texts[6:21]
• Chuck clarifies that he is wondering whether in the books themselves they explicitly say things like "he sent an upside down thing, which means blah, blah, blah."
• Josh answers that they would indeed do that, indicating some explicit explanations appear in the texts.

Playful, fictional "quote" from Pride and Prejudice

Setup of a supposed Austen quote[6:27]
• Josh says he found a quote from "Pride and Prejudice," describing Elizabeth Bennet giving a flower to Mr. Darcy and the narrator saying she gave a red rose to tell him she loved him.
Comedic exaggeration about the text[6:54]
• Josh humorously claims that in the first edition, the word "red" is repeated over and over for three pages and then a new chapter starts.
• The hosts treat this as a joke, with Chuck responding "That's so hot" and Josh suggesting they take a break.

Introduction to nosegays, tussie-mussies, and herb meanings

Definition and form of nosegays/tussie-mussies

Alternate term for a nosegay[9:48]
• Josh says another great word for a nosegay is "tussie-mussie."
Physical description and usage[9:56]
• Josh explains that floriography in the Victorian age became popular at the same time as tussie-mussies and nosegays.
• He describes them as small, short, tightly bound bouquets worn almost like a boutonniere or corsage.

Inclusion of herbs and their specific meanings

Herbs as part of the symbolic vocabulary[10:13]
• Josh notes they were made of both flowers and herbs, and that herbs had their own meanings too.
Examples of herb and plant meanings[10:18]
• Rosemary is said to stand for remembrance.
• Mint is associated with clarity.
• Moss is given the meanings of charity or maternal love.
• Violet is mentioned as symbolizing modesty.
Composite meaning of a mixed tussie-mussie[10:33]
• Josh says that putting rosemary, mint, moss, and violets together and giving them to someone could convey: "I modestly ask you to clearly remember me with either charity or maternal love. Your pick."
• Chuck jokes that such a message would be very confusing and humorously invokes Freud.

Symbolism of flower types, colors, and conditions

Overview of how type and color matter

Importance of both flower type and color[10:54]
• Chuck says that the type of flower and the color both matter, and that many messages could be sent.

Examples of specific color and flower pairings

Negative and positive color meanings[10:54]
• Chuck notes that a yellow carnation or yellow rose can send a message of rejection or disappointment.
• He adds that a yellow lily, by contrast, means you are thrilled or "over the moon and walking on air."
Canonical rose color meanings[11:26]
• A red rose is said to mean "I love you."
• A white rose symbolizes purity.
• A yellow rose represents loss of love.
• A crimson rose is associated with mourning (spelled M-O-U-R).
Condition of the flower: fresh, withered, or dried[12:06]
• Josh explains that the state of the flowers also mattered a lot, referencing the previously mentioned withered rose in the tussie-mussie scenario.
• A plain white rose can mean you think someone is heavenly, pure, and you like that.
• A withered white rose tells the recipient they made no impression or that you think their beauty is fleeting.
• A dried white rose conveys "I would rather die than to give in to your advances" because the sender cares about their virtue.
• Josh notes the potential confusion when interpreting whether a rose is withered versus dried.

Ambiguity, multiple meanings, and guidebooks

More examples of complex or contradictory meanings

Context-dependent meanings of hydrangea and petunia[12:44]
• Chuck says hydrangea can mean thanking the receiver for understanding or calling them frigid and heartless.
• Petunias can mean either "you soothe me" or "I resent you."
• Chuck stresses that you need a read on the relationship context to interpret these correctly.

Reason for multiple meanings: many guidebooks

Not due to a shortage of flowers[13:09]
• Josh clarifies the multiple meanings did not exist because of a need to make a limited number of flowers do double duty.
• He observes that if you combine all available flowers and colors, you already get a "mind-boggling" number of combinations.
Competing floriography books with differing assignments[13:26]
• Josh explains that there were many different floriography books, and many simply assigned different meanings to the same flowers.
• He notes that when you gave someone flowers, especially early in a relationship, you were hoping both of you were working from the same book.
Number of guides in the United States[13:48]
• Chuck cites that there were 98 different guides circulating in the United States alone between 1827 and 1923.
• He comments that this proliferation of guides was "not helpful at all" for clear communication.

Presentation conventions: orientation, ribbons, and acceptance

Orientation of the bouquet (upright vs. upside down)

Upside-down bouquets indicating opposites[13:59]
• Chuck says that presenting flowers upside down basically says it is "opposite day," meaning the opposite of the usual symbolism.
• He observes this might be done to confuse observers, such as a mother watching, though he notes such an observer might also know about the opposite-day convention.

Ribbon placement and who the meaning applies to

Left vs. right ribbon tying[14:17]
• Chuck explains that if the ribbon is tied to the left, the symbolism is applied to the giver.
• If the ribbon is tied to the right, it is in reference to the recipient.

Use of negative meanings and complex messaging

Elaborate negative bouquets[14:32]
• Josh mentions that floriography could express many negative meanings, and suggests that handing a bouquet upside down filled with "mean" flowers would require being "pretty sharp."
• He notes this would be a lot of trouble to go through, referencing the complexity of planning such a message.

Symbolism of specific negative flowers

Flowers expressing jealousy, distrust, and hatred[14:56]
• Josh says marigolds can represent jealousy.
• Lavender can express distrust.
• An orange lily straight up means "I hate you."
• Snapdragons can mean "I feel deceived."
• A flower called tansy is said to declare war, and Josh notes he had not heard of tansy before this.

Conventions for accepting flowers and responding

Meaning of how flowers are accepted

Right vs. left hand acceptance[15:41]
• Chuck explains that accepting flowers with the right hand was a "yes," while accepting with the left hand was a "no."
• Holding a bouquet upside down after receiving it signaled rejection.
Example with wisteria and declining a dance[15:50]
• Chuck says that if someone gave you wisteria, perhaps asking for a dance, and you held it upside down with your left hand, you were saying no.
• Josh jokes that this is a double no and wonders if the giver might misinterpret it as a double negative meaning yes.

Sending flowers in reply and carnation code

Replying when flowers are sent, not handed[15:32]
• Josh notes that if someone sent you flowers rather than handing them to you, you could reply with flowers of your own.
Carnations as a simple yes/no system[16:25]
• Josh explains that carnation colors were used for responses: a solid-colored carnation meant yes.
• A yellow carnation was a definite no.
• A striped carnation still meant no but in a gentler way, essentially saying, "I'm sorry, but I can't be with you."

Placement of nosegays on the body and closing exchange

Body placement indicating feelings

Center of bodice versus over the heart[16:57]
• Josh reiterates that wearing the nosegay in the center of the bodice means "I just want to be friends."
• He says that if Chuck had worn it over his heart, it would have communicated, "I love you right back, buddy."
Friendly affirmation with no romantic implication[16:13]
• Chuck responds that he does love Josh right back, but "just, you know, not like that," and Josh says he understands and that he "took his shot."

Episode wrap-up and show identification

Closing short stuff segment[17:13]
• Josh asks if that is all for Short Stuff, and Chuck agrees that it is.
Show production note[17:28]
• A closing announcer states that Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio and directs listeners to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or other platforms.

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Nonverbal communication systems can become extremely rich and precise when direct speech is socially constrained, allowing people to convey sensitive information without words.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your own life do you currently rely on indirect signals instead of stating your intentions or feelings explicitly?
  • • How might becoming more aware of nonverbal cues at work or in relationships change the way you interpret others' behavior?
  • • What is one conversation this week where you could gently replace vague signals with clear, respectful words to avoid misinterpretation?
2

Shared reference points-like a common "codebook"-are essential for precise communication; without them, even carefully crafted messages can be misunderstood.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what areas of your work or personal life do people seem to be operating from different "rulebooks" or definitions?
  • • How could you clarify or co-create shared standards, terminology, or expectations with your team or family to reduce confusion?
  • • What is one recurring misunderstanding you face that might be solved by agreeing on a common framework or definition with others involved?
3

Context is often as important as content in interpreting messages, because the same signal can carry opposite meanings depending on the surrounding relationship and situation.

Reflection Questions:

  • • When have you recently reacted strongly to someone's words or actions without fully considering the broader context?
  • • How can you build a habit of pausing to ask clarifying questions before assuming what someone "really" meant?
  • • What specific context clues (history, mood, setting) should you pay more attention to in a current important relationship or collaboration?
4

Cultural practices and symbols can become obscure over time, so understanding historical or domain-specific "languages" often requires deliberate learning.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What领域 or community you care about has its own jargon or symbolic language that you only partly understand?
  • • How might taking time to learn the background and meanings of those symbols improve your ability to contribute and connect within that space?
  • • What is one specialized "language" (professional, cultural, historical) you could start studying this month to deepen your understanding and empathy?

Episode Summary - Notes by Blake

Short Stuff: Victorian Flower Language
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