Get Your Weekly Digest

Receive the best podcast summaries and insights delivered to your inbox every week.

We respect your privacy. Unsubscribe anytime.

Stuff You Should Know

Graffiti: So Cool It's A Pillar of Hip Hop

Published November 20, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Josh and Chuck explore graffiti as a core pillar of hip hop culture, tracing its development from early Chicano mural influences and Philadelphia tagger Cornbread through New York City's subway writing scene of the 1960s-80s. They break down key styles (tags, throw-ups, pieces, wild style, Cholo style), tools and techniques, the subculture's rules and rivalries, and the ongoing tension between graffiti as art and as vandalism. The hosts also highlight how photographers, films, gallery shows, and a few star artists helped move graffiti into the global art world while authorities simultaneously tried to eradicate it from city infrastructure.

Topics Covered

Graffiti Street art Hip hop culture Art and creativity Urban design and culture Subway graffiti Chicano culture Spray paint DIY tools Vandalism

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Modern graffiti in the U.S. grew from a mix of Chicano mural traditions, the invention of spray paint, and youth tagging culture in cities like Philadelphia and New York in the 1960s and 70s.
  • Three core graffiti forms-tags, throw-ups, and pieces-range from quick signatures to elaborate, multi-day artworks that can cover entire subway cars or walls.
  • Graffiti is one of the pillars of hip hop culture and has its own unwritten rules, rivalries, and ethics, including norms about where not to paint and the prohibition on snitching.
  • Media such as the documentary Style Wars, the film Wild Style, and photo books like Subway Art helped codify graffiti style and spread it globally.
  • New York's aggressive anti-graffiti campaigns in the 1970s and 80s mostly heightened the challenge for writers until the Clean Car Program finally reduced full-car subway pieces.
  • Graffiti culture is deeply DIY, with writers modifying caps, inks, and tools to create custom effects long before commercial street-art products existed.
  • Several graffiti writers, including Jean-Michel Basquiat and Keith Haring, crossed over into the mainstream art world, while others stayed underground or adopted explicitly anti-corporate stances.
  • Developing a distinctive hand style and technical can control is considered the essential starting point for anyone wanting to practice graffiti.

Podcast Notes

Introduction and framing of graffiti topic

Hosts set the tone and acknowledge coolness gap

Josh and Chuck introduce graffiti as the episode topic[2:04]
• Josh says they are doing a "wild style" episode and that the topic is cooler than they are, but they'll do their best to convey how neat it is
Chuck hints at a forthcoming "middle-aged white dude" voice bit[2:19]
• Chuck says there's a portion where he'll lapse into the most middle-aged white dude thing ever, and Josh tries to guess what voice it will be

Historical roots and early influences on modern graffiti

Chicano mural and public art as a precursor

Mexican muralism and Chicano kids in LA[3:24]
• Chuck notes that during the Mexican Revolution in the 1930s, mural and public art in Mexico was a big thing
• Chicano kids in the 1930s brought that mural style to Los Angeles and other U.S. cities in the 1930s and 40s, before spray cans existed
Connection to modern graffiti aesthetics[3:37]
• Josh explains these kids were writing on walls using paint and brushes and other available tools before markers and spray cans
• They often tagged neighborhoods as gang turf but added flourishes and details that show up in graffiti styles today

Invention of key tools: spray cans and markers

Birth of the spray paint can

Ed and Bonnie Seymour invent spray can in 1949[4:18]
• Josh says the spray can is vital for graffiti and was invented in 1949 by an Illinois paint company owner named Ed Seymour and his wife
• Chuck supplies her name as Bonnie and notes he had to look hard to find it
Intended use and quick adoption by protesters and artists[4:47]
• Josh says the Seymours were trying to coat radiators with an aluminum coating, which led to the spray can's invention
• Spray cans were quickly adopted by protesters and clandestine artists because they are easy to hide, quick to work with, and usable on many surfaces

Development of markers and their role in graffiti

Markers arrive after spray paint[5:49]
• Chuck notes that markers didn't come around until the 1950s, so spray paint actually preceded markers, which surprised him
Magic Marker as first commercial marker[6:03]
• Josh says Magic Marker was the first marker sold commercially, beginning in 1953
Markers in graffiti and hand style[5:49]
• Josh initially didn't associate markers with graffiti, then realized interior train-car markings are mostly marker-based
• Chuck and Josh emphasize that markers are important for hand style and detail work in graffiti

Early pioneers and the birth of modern tagging

Cornbread in Philadelphia

Darryl "Cornbread" McRae claiming to invent graffiti[6:45]
• Josh introduces Darryl McRae, who claims he invented graffiti and uses the handle "Cornbread"
• Josh notes others were doing similar things at the same time, but Cornbread is considered one of the first graffiti writers
Origin of the "Cornbread" name in juvenile detention[7:19]
• Chuck explains Cornbread was a 12‑year‑old in Philadelphia in juvenile detention (Youth Development Center) in 1965
• He disliked white bread and wanted cornbread like his grandmother made, which earned him the nickname "Cornbread"
• He started writing "Cornbread" on the walls inside the institution and continued tagging around Philly after his release in 1967
Romantic motivation and risk[8:31]
• Chuck describes how Cornbread wrote his name along his girlfriend's bus route so she would see it and be impressed, sometimes running alongside the bus while tagging

Transition from names to tags and risk-oriented culture

Early focus on name repetition and risky spots[8:17]
• Chuck says early graffiti focused on writing your name (later called a tag) in as many places as possible
• Writers gained status by tagging risky or hard-to-reach spots like in front of police stations or atop water towers
Merging influences into modern graffiti[8:50]
• Josh connects Chicano mural flourishes with widespread tagging to define the true beginning of modern graffiti

New York City graffiti scene and tagging explosion

Spanish Harlem pioneers and numerical tags

Nickname-plus-number convention (e.g., Turk182)[9:21]
• Chuck explains early New York tags used nickname plus street number, e.g., Turk182 with Turk as nickname and 182 as the street
Julio204 and Taki183 as early famous writers[9:35]
• Josh names Julio204 and Taki183 as two of the earliest well-known taggers
• Taki is a Greek nickname for Demetrius and he worked as a delivery person, which let him distribute the Taki183 tag all over the city

Media recognition of graffiti writers

New York Times article on Taki183[10:01]
• Josh notes that in 1971 the New York Times profiled Taki183, inspiring some people to see tagging as a cool street activity and others to resent him for marking up the city

Formation of early graffiti crews

Writer's Corner 188 as first crew[10:23]
• Chuck says that in 1971, Writer's Corner 188 formed at Audubon and 188th Street and was known as WC188
• The crew became a place for writers to share style tips, marker knowledge, and techniques, helping the practice evolve

Subway graffiti and escalation of style and risk

Subways as moving canvases

Strategic value of painting subways[10:56]
• Chuck explains that graffiti on subway cars could be seen by more people because the trains travel across the city
• Painting subways is risky but aligns with the subculture's attraction to danger and challenge
Yard painting vs moving trains[12:56]
• Josh clarifies that writers weren't painting moving trains; they broke into railyards at night to paint stationary cars, which then circulated the next day

Classification of graffiti styles and forms

Three main categories: tags, throw-ups, pieces

Tags as basic identifying signs[13:47]
• Josh says tags are basic identifying signs that function as signatures of a writer's nickname in a stylized way
• He notes the word "tag" for this use did not emerge until 1990; earlier terms included hitting, bombing, and writing
Throw-ups as tag-plus pieces[14:35]
• Chuck defines throw-ups as more elaborate than tags, often including the tag plus extra letters or shapes, usually with two or three colors
• Josh adds that throw-ups are often bubbly letters, while Blockbuster uses big straight block letters, frequently done with rollers
Pieces as full artworks[15:23]
• Josh explains that pieces (short for "masterpieces" or art pieces) can cover an entire subway car or wall and are the most detailed and colorful form
• Pieces can include fades, sparkles, chrome-like effects, and multiple intricate decorations and are what many people picture when they think of graffiti

Time and skill progression

From tags to throw-ups to pieces[15:55]
• Josh says writers usually start with tags, then move to throw-ups, and eventually to pieces as they gain skill
Estimated time to execute each type[16:01]
• Once proficient, a tag can be done in less than a minute, a throw-up can take about a minute (or up to 15 minutes if still learning)
• Pieces may take days with multiple crews or weeks to months for a single writer, especially when done illicitly and requiring repeated night visits

Advanced lettering styles and regional variants

Wild style

Characteristics of wild style[16:59]
• Chuck explains wild style as super-stylized with overlapping letters, bright colors, heavy shading, and 3D effects, often embedded in pieces
Legibility and insider appeal[17:19]
• Josh notes wild style can be so intricate that only other graffiti writers can read the letters, while the general public just sees a mass of color
Historical note on wild style's age[17:17]
• Josh is surprised that wild style dates back to the 1970s rather than emerging in the 1990s, and says many core style guidelines were set then

Cholo style and West Coast influence

Old English and Western saloon lettering[18:36]
• Chuck describes Cholo style as using old English or Western saloon-style lettering, associated with Mexican gang culture but rooted in Chicano writing culture
• Cholo style developed on the West Coast but spread east; it often incorporates cartoonish characters of gangbangers with bandanas

Anti-style or ignorant style

Deliberately primitive aesthetic[19:21]
• Josh explains anti-style (or ignorant style) mimics primitive or "toy" graffiti on purpose, often created by skilled artists who feel graffiti has become too complex
• They aim to recapture the feel of early 1970s graffiti; some people hate it, others find intentionally primitive work by skilled artists looks cool

Markers, tools, and the four (or five) pillars of hip hop

Specific marker brands and DIY tools

Popular early marker brands[20:44]
• Chuck mentions Pilot, Marks-A-Lot, Drymark, and Sanford King Size as early broad-tip markers favored by writers
Refilling markers and DIY instruments[20:32]
• Writers refilled marker bodies with different inks and used items like shoe-polish bottles to create custom tools

Graffiti as a hip hop pillar and competition

Afrika Bambaataa's five pillars[20:42]
• Josh says Afrika Bambaataa defined five hip hop pillars: MCing, DJing, breaking, graffiti, and knowledge (knowledge of self and history)
Competitive and war-like aspects[20:54]
• Chuck compares graffiti's competitive element to MCing and breaking, noting that wars can arise where writers paint over each other's work
• Josh says painting over another piece is only acceptable if the previous work is terrible and the new piece is significantly better, making it a big flex

Media, documentation, and global spread of graffiti

Adoption in Britain and Amsterdam punk scenes

European uptake in the late 1970s[21:39]
• Chuck notes that Britain and Amsterdam's punk scenes adopted graffiti practices in the late 1970s

Henry Chalfant, Style Wars, and photo books

Style Wars documentary (1983)[22:01]
• Chuck recommends the 1983 documentary Style Wars by photographer Henry Chalfant and director Tony Silver, available on YouTube
• The film documents graffiti writers talking about their work, shows their process, and includes breakdancing footage from the Rock Steady Crew
• Josh says Style Wars is treated within graffiti culture as an instructional document for new writers even today
Subway Art and Spray Can Art books[23:21]
• Josh notes Chalfant collaborated with Martha Cooper on the photo book Subway Art, and with James Prigoff on Spray Can Art
• New graffiti writers are still referred to these books to learn foundational styles and history

Gordon Matta-Clark and Wild Style film

Gordon Matta-Clark's tag photography[23:53]
• Josh mentions Gordon Matta-Clark photographed tags across New York and that his work is sometimes exhibited
Wild Style (1982) as first hip hop movie[24:00]
• Josh states the 1982 film Wild Style is considered the first hip hop movie and predates Style Wars
• Wild Style includes Rock Steady Crew, early woman graffiti artist Lady Pink, and a pre-Beastie Boys King Ad-Rock
• The plot centers on a graffiti writer hired to create work, blending narrative film with real hip hop culture figures

Vaughn Bodé and comic influences

Cheech Wizard, Puck the Lizard, and bubble letters[25:22]
• Chuck says 1980s comic artist Vaughn Bodé, with characters Puck and Cheech Wizard, heavily influenced graffiti
• His characters appeared in self-published comics in the 1960s and in National Lampoon in the early 1970s
• Josh notes Cheech Wizard is a big wizard hat with legs and a wise smart-aleck persona, and graffiti culture embraced these characters and Bodé's bubble-letter style

Graffiti as art vs vandalism and official crackdowns

Early academic and gallery recognition

First academic article and United Graffiti Artists[24:33]
• Chuck cites a 1969 Urban Review article by Herbert Cole titled "Names, Graffiti, and Culture" as the first academic work on graffiti
• He describes Hugo Martinez at City College founding United Graffiti Artists in 1972 with Puerto Rican teen writers, encouraging them to paint on canvas
• United Graffiti Artists showed work at City College and then mounted the first graffiti gallery show at the Razor Gallery in Soho in 1972
Twyla Tharp collaboration[26:26]
• Josh says that in 1973, choreographer Twyla Tharp had United Graffiti Artists create scenery for a performance in Chicago set to Beach Boys music

New York City's war on graffiti

Mayor John Lindsay and early legal measures[27:00]
• Chuck says Mayor John Lindsay declared a war on graffiti in the early 1970s, seeing it as urban decay
• In 1972, the city council made it illegal to carry an aerosol can in a public facility
• In 1975, the Transit Police Graffiti Squad was created to combat subway graffiti
Writers' response: "game on"[27:52]
• Chuck emphasizes that these measures did not deter writers but instead increased the sense of challenge and risk
Spray paint sales restrictions and theft[28:04]
• Josh notes New York banned spray paint sales to teenagers, and writers responded by stealing paint, making theft part of graffiti practice
Ed Koch's intensified crackdown and the Clean Car Program[28:30]
• Josh says Mayor Ed Koch razor-wired subway yards, added guard dogs, and had cops follow kids home from school to stop graffiti
• Chuck explains the MTA's Clean Car Program kept any newly painted car off the line until graffiti was removed, which finally reduced full-car pieces
• By 1989, whole-car graffiti in New York was reportedly gone, though smaller markings remained
Famous full-car piece "Break"[28:13]
• Josh highlights Break, a full subway car piece by Futura 2000 and Dondi, calling it one of the greatest subway masterpieces
• He describes it as a radical departure from conventions, with novel elements that require both close and distant viewing
• Chuck says he personally didn't love it but acknowledges art is subjective and others may find it great

Evolution of graffiti materials and caps

DIY cap experimentation

Reusing product caps for different spray effects[30:49]
• Chuck explains writers experimented with caps from other products like Easy-Off oven cleaner to get wider spray patterns for paint

Commercial graffiti-focused paints

European brands Montana and Molotow[31:43]
• Josh says that in Europe, brands like Montana and Molotow intentionally targeted street artists in the 1990s with weather-resistant paints and special colors and caps

Rust-Oleum, Krylon, and the role of lead

U.S. mainstream paints avoided graffiti marketing[32:27]
• Josh notes Rust-Oleum and Krylon did not want to be associated with graffiti and avoided marketing to writers
Lead benefits and removal impact[32:25]
• Josh explains that up to the late 1970s these paints contained lead, which improved drying time, brightness, durability, and moisture resistance
• Removing lead from paint was a major setback for writers who valued those properties

Specialized caps and their functions

Fat, skinny, and calligraphy caps[34:15]
• Chuck notes that some caps produce fat or skinny lines; calligraphy caps use slotted openings to make horizontal lines and are common in Cholo graffiti
Needle caps for splatter and drips[34:40]
• Josh says needle caps create splatter for controlled drips and add a soft haze that changes line texture when viewed from a distance

Developing hand style and basic technique

Hand style and personal alphabets

Definition of hand style[42:11]
• Josh defines hand style as a writer's personal way of writing their tag, often including an entire custom alphabet they design
BombingScience resource and alphabets[42:23]
• Chuck mentions bombingScience.com, which showcases 61 graffiti artists' custom alphabets for learners to study
• He notes some letters are hard to recognize, but the designs show the thought and effort put into creating personal fonts

Practice progression: pens, markers, then walls

Starting on paper with pens and markers[43:07]
• Josh says step one is practicing your hand style with pens and markers on paper, not directly on walls or with paint

Josh's "middle-aged white dude" how-to voice

Shaking the can properly[43:13]
• Chuck, using an exaggerated instructional voice, says you must shake the can thoroughly so paint flows well and should not shortcut that step
Can control: pressure and speed[43:57]
• He explains can control involves learning how nozzle pressure affects drips and how fast you must move your hand to achieve the desired line
Adjusting distance to surface[44:23]
• Chuck says being closer to the wall yields thinner, more saturated lines for outlines, while being farther away creates wider, more diffused coverage
• Josh summarizes that nozzle pressure and distance from the wall are the two most fundamental technical variables in spray painting

Ethics, rules, and alternate graffiti techniques

Unwritten rules of where not to paint

Respecting certain spaces[44:49]
• Chuck lists locations writers are not supposed to tag: churches, schools, hospitals, houses, cars, headstones, and natural features like trees and rocks

Anti-snitching norm

Snitching destroys reputation[45:13]
• Josh recounts that legendary writer Cope 2 was accused of snitching, and his reputation collapsed almost overnight

Non-spray graffiti forms: wheatpaste, stickers, stencils

Posters and wheatpaste[46:25]
• Josh says writers can create posters at home and glue them with wheatpaste onto walls, doing most work out of sight and installing quickly
Stickers and stencils[45:49]
• He mentions sticker art and stencil use ("like a real Banksy") as other forms of street art that allow rapid deployment in public
• Josh notes that although these methods change the process, they are generally considered part of street art and, to some extent, graffiti

Reverse graffiti

Cleaning to create images[46:42]
• Josh describes reverse graffiti as creating images by cleaning dirty surfaces, like writing "wash me" on a dusty car
• He says it's often used for political or environmental messages, and practitioners argue they're cleaning rather than defacing, though authorities may still remove it

Graffiti writers who crossed into mainstream art or notable practice

Jean-Michel Basquiat

From SAMO tags to art-world star[48:10]
• Josh says Jean-Michel Basquiat tagged as SAMO in the late 1970s and became one of the first graffiti writers to achieve major art-world success
• By the early 1980s his paintings were among the most expensive in the art world, he was friends with Andy Warhol, and had a solo exhibition by 1982
• Chuck notes Basquiat died from a heroin overdose in the late 1980s

Keith Haring

Subway chalk drawings and Radiant Baby[48:24]
• Chuck explains Keith Haring chalked art on blank backing boards revealed when subway ads were removed, becoming famous for his Radiant Baby symbol
• He says Haring died from complications of AIDS/HIV in 1990

Shepard Fairey

Andre the Giant has a posse and Obama "Hope" poster[49:18]
• Josh mentions Shepard Fairey's "Andre the Giant has a posse" sticker campaign and his 2008 Barack Obama "Hope" poster as key works

Other notable or niche writers

Dondi White and underground legends[49:36]
• Josh says Dondi White co-created the Break full-car piece, associated with artists like Haring and Basquiat, but remained more underground and never fully crossed into the major art world
Lady K and contemporary European writers[49:58]
• Chuck cites Lady K as a French writer and notes her very cool work based in Paris or New York
Rens in Copenhagen[50:18]
• Josh highlights Rens, working in Copenhagen, calling the work mind-numbingly amazing and beyond his ability to even conceive of
Kidult vs luxury brand co-optation[51:22]
• Josh explains Kidult targets luxury stores that collaborate with graffiti aesthetics, heavily vandalizing their storefronts as a protest
Yumi's brief graffiti tag "Apothecary"[51:52]
• Josh shares that his wife Yumi used the tag Apothecary due to interest in b-boy culture but found it too long and the practice faded out

Listener mail: David Letterman and auto racing

Clarifying Letterman's car-world involvement

Ben from Connecticut's email on Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing[52:51]
• Chuck reads an email from Ben noting that David Letterman is co-owner of Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing in IndyCar
• The team won the CART Indy Championship in 1992 and the Indy 500 twice, in 2004 with Buddy Rice and in 2020 with Takuma Sato
Comparison to Jay Leno's car enthusiasm[53:21]
• Ben's email notes that while Leno is famous for automotive history and tinkering, Letterman is also well-known in the automotive world through his team ownership
• Josh and Chuck joke that Letterman "owns" Leno once again in this domain

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Subcultures often develop their own rules, hierarchies, and standards of quality that are invisible to outsiders but critical to participants' sense of identity and legitimacy.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What communities or subcultures am I part of where there are unspoken rules and hierarchies I haven't fully articulated to myself?
  • • How might understanding the informal rules of a group I work with (or want to enter) change the way I show up and contribute?
  • • Where am I judging something as "low quality" from the outside without understanding the internal standards that practitioners actually care about?
2

Skill development in any craft tends to follow a progression from basic repetition of fundamentals to increasingly complex, risky, and time-intensive work as mastery grows.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In an area I care about, what is the equivalent of practicing tags before attempting "pieces"-the simple fundamentals I should be repeating more often?
  • • How could I structure my learning so that I only take on higher-risk, higher-visibility projects after I've built enough underlying skill?
  • • What current project might be too advanced for my present skill level, and how could I break it down into smaller, practiceable components?
3

Attempts to suppress an activity with purely punitive measures can unintentionally increase its appeal and intensity for people who are motivated by challenge and risk.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in my life or organization am I relying mostly on punishment or restriction to stop a behavior instead of addressing the motivations behind it?
  • • How could I redesign a rule or policy so that it channels people's desire for challenge into something productive instead of confrontational?
  • • What is one situation right now where adding more "razer wire and guard dogs" is likely to backfire, and what alternative approach could I try instead?
4

Documenting emerging practices-through photos, film, or writing-can shape how they evolve, preserve knowledge for newcomers, and even help legitimize them over time.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What important work or learning in my world is happening informally that no one is systematically documenting?
  • • How might creating a simple "Style Wars"-style record of a project, process, or team culture help others learn faster or feel proud of their contributions?
  • • What is one area where I could start capturing examples, stories, or visuals now so that the knowledge isn't lost later?
5

Resourcefulness with tools-modifying what exists instead of waiting for ideal products-can open creative possibilities and give you an edge in constrained environments.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where am I holding back on a project because I feel I don't have the perfect tools or conditions yet?
  • • How could I repurpose or modify tools I already have, the way graffiti writers repurposed cleaner caps and marker bodies, to get closer to the effect I want?
  • • What small experiment could I run this week using a hacked-together or improvised setup instead of waiting for the "right" gear?
6

Balancing visibility and risk is a strategic choice: the more exposure a piece of work gets, the greater both the potential reward and the potential consequences.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which of my current projects are more like "wall pieces" (safer, local) and which are more like "full-car subway pieces" (high visibility and risk)?
  • • How conscious am I of the trade-offs between exposure and potential blowback when I decide where and how to showcase my work or opinions?
  • • What is one high-visibility opportunity I could pursue more intentionally-and what safeguards or preparation would make that risk worthwhile?

Episode Summary - Notes by Morgan

Graffiti: So Cool It's A Pillar of Hip Hop
0:00 0:00