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Planet Money

BOARD GAMES 1: We're making a game

with Leonie Grundler, Alon Lee

Published October 1, 2025
View Show Notes

About This Episode

Planet Money goes inside the modern board game industry as they embark on creating their own economics-themed tabletop game. They follow the journey of first-time designer and publisher Leonie Grundler, whose game Biome became a Kickstarter hit, and then meet Exploding Kittens co-creator Alon Lee to explore whether their game should be a complex Eurogame or a mass-market party game. Along the way, they unpack crowdfunding, manufacturing, tariffs, and the importance of core game mechanics while setting up a partnership to develop a smart but broadly appealing party game.

Topics Covered

Board game design Entrepreneurship Product development Manufacturing in China Tariffs Retail distribution Marketing and customer education Crowdfunding Party games Economics education

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Board gaming is in a "golden age" with roughly 5,000 new games released each year, creating both huge opportunities for players and fierce competition for designers.
  • First-time designer and publisher Leonie Grundler used Kickstarter and careful pre-launch marketing to turn her nature-themed game Biome into a $400,000 campaign and 12,000-unit print run.
  • Kickstarter has become the largest category for tabletop games and a key way for independent creators to bypass traditional publishers and reach players directly.
  • Manufacturing complex component-heavy games in China remains cheaper than U.S. production even after dramatic tariff increases, but it squeezes indie publishers' margins.
  • Planet Money decides to partner with Exploding Kittens, shifting from a heavy Eurogame vision toward a smart mass-appeal party game that can reach big-box retail shelves.
  • Exploding Kittens emphasizes that the core goal of a good party game is to make the players entertaining, not the game itself.
  • Every game hinges on its core mechanic or loop-the repeated action that should escalate and reward mastery over time.
  • The team sets ambitious design constraints: create a fun, mass-market party game with a brand-new core mechanic that also stealthily teaches economics concepts.

Podcast Notes

Introduction at GenCon and the modern board game boom

Atmosphere and anticipation at GenCon

Hosts describe waiting in a packed convention center hallway before doors open[0:29]
• They and the crowd are "packed like sardines" and surging forward, waiting for the main doors to open
• A random attendee nearby jokes about expecting a big announcement, but instead it's just a rush of people
GenCon is introduced as the largest tabletop gaming convention in the U.S.[0:49]
• Tabletop gaming includes board games, card games, and role-playing games
The exhibition floor is described as a massive space filled with kiosks and games from big publishers to first-time designers[1:11]
• The room feels as big as three football fields, with people selling and demoing games everywhere
• The hosts react with giddy excitement and sensory overload upon entering

Initial purpose of the GenCon visit

Hosts state they are there partly because they love board games and partly for "market research"[1:37]
• They begin asking designers to describe their games, sampling the diversity of ideas on display
Examples of games encountered[1:34]
• A "transhuman sci-fi" game set 10 years after humanity loses a war with AIs, taking place roughly 10 years from now
• Canvas Critters, a mosaic-making game where animal artists try to impress a skeptical rabbit museum curator
• Biome, a nature-themed tableau builder where players construct biodiverse ecosystems of plants and animals

Spotlight on Biome and indie designer-publisher Leonie

Introduction to Leonie and Biome's visual appeal

Leonie Grundler (introduced as founder and CEO of Lioness Games) is the creator of Biome[2:18]
• She is 29 and runs Lioness Games, with Biome as the company's first game
Biome's components are described as unusually eye-catching and elaborate[2:28]
• The game features dozens of beautifully illustrated cards depicting animals and plants
• There are hundreds of small wooden animal pieces
• The standout components are miniature, functional bird nests made of straw with wooden chicks and rabbits that sit in them

How Biome plays and its "cute meets brutal" nature theme

Players earn points by playing plant and animal cards and triggering special interactions at the right times[3:00]
• In spring, a bird card next to a tree or a rabbit next to any plant can trigger nesting and "babies"
• When nesting occurs, tiny wooden baby pieces are placed into the nests, earning more points
• Opponents can play predator cards that "feast on your young," highlighting the brutality of nature despite the cute components

Leonie as a one-woman board game company and family support

Hosts observe that Leonie essentially is the company, with help from family and anyone she can recruit[3:32]
• Her sister helped with art and graphic design for the game
• Her parents are at GenCon demoing Biome elsewhere in the hall
Leonie's mother wears earrings made from Biome wooden sun resource pieces as a promotional touch[4:40]
• The earrings use the "sunlight" resource pieces from the game, which the host admires

Golden age of games and the challenge of standing out

Explosion in number of new games produced annually

Hosts state that in the 1990s about 700-800 new games were released per year[4:16]
• They contrast that with the present, where around 5,000 new games come out annually
For players, this abundance means a "golden age" of gaming[4:13]
For creators, the same abundance means unprecedented competition and difficulty getting noticed[4:19]
• Leonie's efforts-custom nests, family as staff, handmade promotional items-are framed as tactics to stand out in a saturated market

Mythical "Monopoly killer" and rise of Catan

Sellers at GenCon hope their game might become a blockbuster, sometimes described as a "Monopoly Killer"[4:51]
• Monopoly is described as perhaps the most popular U.S. board game ever, making immense profits
Settlers of Catan is identified as a major contender people cite as a potential Monopoly killer[5:07]
• Catan is described: players build roads, trade resources like wool and wood, and score points via settlements and cities
• Though highly successful, Catan did not eliminate Monopoly; instead both coexist as hugely popular, lucrative games

Economics and board games: Planet Money decides to make a game

Board games as economic simulators

Hosts note that both Monopoly and Catan are fundamentally about economics[6:14]
• Monopoly involves real estate, bankruptcy, and antitrust themes
• Catan involves road-building and distribution of scarce resources, mirroring basic economic allocation problems
Many board games are described as "tiny little economic simulators" that explain economics in fun, accessible ways[6:22]

Planet Money announces its own board game project

Hosts suggest Planet Money is well-suited to create an economics-rich game potentially rivaling Monopoly and Catan[6:50]
• They dramatically declare they are making a board game and welcome listeners to Planet Money
They frame the aspirational goal as creating a "Monopoly killer" and a "slayer of Settlers of Catan"[6:52]
• They temper expectations, saying they would also be satisfied if it is simply really fun and people want to play it

Planned multi-episode series and business angles

Over upcoming episodes, they plan to explore pitching a game to big-box retail buyers[7:12]
• They mention getting into "the room for the pitch" and preparing a physical pitch with arm movements
They will examine global manufacturing challenges around board games[7:34]
• They reference tariffs and how they affect costs and whether factories pass those costs back to them
They tease that if all goes well, listeners will be able to buy and play the finished game at home[7:49]
• The game is inspired by a Nobel Prize-winning paper on information asymmetry in the used car market, though one host jokes they don't understand that explanation
They say they will need a lot of listener help in the process[8:07]

Learning from Leonie: how a first-time designer made Biome

Reintroducing Leonie and her board game passion

Leonie owns around 90-100 board games, acknowledging it's a lot but attributing the number partly to moving several times[9:40]
She was once like the hosts-unsure how to navigate the complex board game business[9:29]
Biome is described as long and layered, teaching players about ecology, a model Planet Money wants to emulate for economics[10:19]

Leonie's gaming background and Eurogame influences

Her first loved game was Werewolf, a German variant of Mafia played during summers with cousins in Germany[10:34]
In high school she discovered Settlers of Catan and "fell in love" with board games[10:49]
• She and friends played Catan frequently after school instead of more typical activities like getting boba or playing sports
• Playing Catan nearly every day was not mainstream at the time for high schoolers
Catan is described as a gateway game into the broader board game industry and specifically into Eurogames[10:57]
Eurogames are characterized as thinky, strategy-focused games that reward planning rather than luck[11:17]
• Examples given include Carcassonne and Ticket to Ride

COVID, Wingspan, and the spark for Biome

Leonie studied hospitality administration in college and initially did not consider designing games as a career[11:45]
During the COVID pandemic, board game sales increased as people played within their bubbles[11:57]
Leonie was laid off during COVID and spent the summer playing a lot of Wingspan[12:05]
• Wingspan is referred to as "the bird game," where players play bird cards and birds lay eggs
Leonie's game idea emerged when she wondered what if predators (like snakes) could eat eggs from other players in Wingspan[12:22]
• This "what if" about snakes eating eggs became the conceptual seed for a new game, eventually Biome

From idea to prototype

Leonie began prototyping by printing and cutting out cards by hand[12:44]
• Even her grandmother helped with cutting out the cards, underscoring family involvement in the project
After about a year and a half of iteration, she arrived at a final prototype of Biome[12:49]

Kickstarter and the new path to market for board games

Traditional publishing model versus modern options

Thirty to forty years ago, a designer like Leonie would have needed to pitch her game to a company like Parker Brothers[13:06]
• Parker Brothers, already selling millions of Monopoly copies and developing games internally, would likely have passed on a niche game like Biome
For decades, it was extremely difficult for ordinary enthusiasts to bring a board game idea to market[13:32]

Kickstarter as a floodgate for tabletop games

Kickstarter dramatically changed the landscape, becoming a major path for games to reach players[13:40]
Tabletop games are identified as the largest category on Kickstarter[13:38]
• At any given time, around 650-750 game or game-related projects are live on Kickstarter
• Since Kickstarter's inception, over 57,067 tabletop-related projects have launched and counting
Kickstarter lets designers bypass traditional gatekeepers and ask players directly to pre-order games, often at a set price like $45-$49[14:36]

Leonie chooses Kickstarter and prepares her campaign

Leonie weighed selling Biome to a publisher versus self-publishing via Kickstarter[15:03]
• Going with a publisher would mean help with design polish, manufacturing, and possibly marketing, but lower royalties and reduced creative control
She describes Biome as her "baby" and wanted to retain as much control as possible, leading her to choose Kickstarter[15:27]
She hired a specialist company to help plan and launch her Kickstarter campaign, highlighting how professionalized this ecosystem has become[15:39]
• The firm advised on elements such as her explainer video, marketing, and campaign strategy
Her Biome video features an Australian-accented narrator and dramatic nature-themed copy[15:54]
• The video explains seasonal play, resource collection, wildlife cards, and predator threats, ending on the question of whether players will guide a peaceful or apex-predator biome
They emphasize that games need buzz before launch so early backers can propel the campaign up Kickstarter's rankings[16:17]
• Leonie built pre-launch momentum via Facebook ads, convention appearances, and playtests

Biome's Kickstarter performance and print run

Biome was priced at $49 on Kickstarter, with a target of roughly 1,000 preorders and a $40,000 funding goal[17:02]
The campaign far exceeded expectations, raising about $400,000[16:19]
• She met her funding goal in nine minutes and then rapidly surpassed it
She ended up manufacturing 12,000 copies of Biome across English, German, and French editions[16:46]
Leonie says 12,000 is considered a pretty good starting print run for a first-time designer, though she is modest about the scale of her success[17:28]

Manufacturing realities and tariff shocks

Why Leonie manufactures in China

After Kickstarter, Leonie had to find a factory in China capable of producing wooden animals and nests at scale[16:56]
She later had to navigate large swings in import tariffs and customs duties when bringing games into the U.S.[17:10]

Tariff increases and per-unit cost impact

In December, she imported about 5,500 games and paid $255.20 in customs and duties[18:45]
• This worked out to roughly $0.05 per game in duties
Recently she imported 1,700 games-about a third of the prior shipment-and paid $6,354.81 in duties[19:03]
• This jump raised her duties per game to about $3.74
Despite exploring U.S. manufacturing, she concluded she would have to strip out wooden components and nests and still charge $100-$120 per game if produced domestically[19:37]
• Given that tradeoff, she plans to continue manufacturing in China even with higher tariffs

Leonie as solo founder and Planet Money's reaction

Kickstarter enabled Leonie to become CEO of her own board game company, but she is also effectively the COO, CIO, and only full-time employee[20:03]
The hosts characterize her path as a scrappy, noble independent route that is also all-consuming and tough[20:08]
They ask if it would be "cheating" for Planet Money to partner with a more experienced producer instead of self-publishing[20:26]
• Leonie reassures them that partnering is not selling out and could help bring more people into the hobby, benefiting everyone

Exploding Kittens partnership: party game vs Eurogame

Revisiting Planet Money's past Kickstarter and Exploding Kittens' record

Planet Money previously ran a successful Kickstarter in 2013 to make and track a t-shirt through the global economy[22:56]
• That project raised nearly $600,000 and held a Guinness World Record at the time for money raised by a publishing project on Kickstarter
Their record was later shattered by the Exploding Kittens card game[23:27]
• Exploding Kittens' Kickstarter campaign raised almost $8.8 million and had the most supporters ever on the platform at that time

First meeting with Alon Lee and Exploding Kittens

Planet Money sets up a Zoom call with Exploding Kittens, framed as a first date to see if they should make a game together[24:49]
Executive producer Alex Goldmark joins to help manage any contractual issues[24:17]
Alon Lee, co-creator of Exploding Kittens and a Planet Money listener, joins the call[24:33]
• He says he has been listening for years and to all episodes, and is excited to be on the call
Exploding Kittens has since published over 70 games, many of which appear on Walmart and Target shelves[24:49]
• Examples of their titles include Throw Throw Burrito, Poetry for Neanderthals, and Really Loud Librarians

Defining success and audience for the Planet Money game

Alon asks what success looks like and who the target audience is[25:32]
Alex notes they have a large podcast audience and assume some portion enjoys board games[25:45]
Alex reveals they want the game to make players see or feel something about the world of economics, using words like "learn"[25:11]
• Alon reacts to the word "learn" as dangerous for games, explaining it's only problematic if you intend to test players on it
• If players "probably learned something" incidentally, without a test, he considers that acceptable

Eurogame ambition versus party game reality

The hosts had initially imagined a complex Eurogame akin to Catan: long playtime, deep strategy, elaborate components, high BoardGameGeek ranking[27:11]
Alon probes whether they are committed to that model, and whether the game even needs a physical board[27:42]
• He notes it could be a card game, a game with throwables, or even a run-around-the-room game, broadening the design space
Alon lays out a strategic choice between BoardGameGeek-style games and mass-market card/party games[28:23]
• High-complexity games tend to have high cost of goods, high sale prices, and relatively small audiences, with few making a lot of money
• Card or party games like Exploding Kittens have low cost of goods, lower price points ($10-$20), and can sell millions of units, albeit with less profit per sale
He emphasizes that they must decide what their strategy is before choosing a path[28:48]

Party games, "smartness," and the Exploding Kittens philosophy

The hosts admit they had bias seeing party games as less "smart" and thought Planet Money should have a "smart" game[29:31]
Alon introduces Exploding Kittens' core mantra for game design[28:58]
• Their single criterion: the game itself should not be entertaining; instead, it should make the people you're playing with entertaining
He criticizes Candyland as the "worst game ever invented" to illustrate what not to do[30:14]
• Candyland's core action is drawing a card and moving to a specified space repeatedly, with no choices, mastery, or interaction
• He argues players might as well not be present, so the experience is pointless from a game design standpoint

Core mechanics and the need for novelty

What is a core mechanic or game loop?

Alon explains that every game has a core mechanic or loop: the repeated action that drives play from start to finish[31:07]
• A good core mechanic escalates over time and allows players to get better at it, providing a sense of mastery
In Candyland, the core mechanic is simply drawing a card and moving according to its instruction, which he deems unengaging[31:29]
In Monopoly, the core mechanic is accumulating properties and making money from them[31:41]
• Players repeatedly buy properties, collect rent, and experience escalation as some gain more properties and money while others lose them

Requirement for a new mechanic in the Planet Money game

The hosts ask whether they should aim to introduce a new core mechanic in their game[32:05]
Alon says if a game is just a reskinned version of an existing game loop, he gets bored and would rather not make it[32:17]
• He states that unless they come up with a brand-new gameplay mechanic, they shouldn't bother pursuing the game

Aligning on a vision and next steps with Exploding Kittens

Choosing mass-appeal party game with hidden complexity

By the end of the meeting, the hosts begin to embrace the idea of a party game rather than a Eurogame[32:45]
They see the possibility of combining mass appeal and quick play with subtle economic complexity[33:24]
• They envision a super fun party game that is "subtly smarter" than expected, embedding economics concepts in its mechanics
They agree that they do not care how the game performs on BoardGameGeek rankings as long as it is fun and sells well[33:08]

Agreement in principle and homework assignments

Planet Money and Exploding Kittens agree in principle to make the Planet Money game together[33:16]
Their goals include: a mass-appeal party game, placement on big-box retailer shelves, a brand-new core mechanic, and embedded "backdoor" economics learning[33:24]
Alon proposes next steps: both sides do homework before the next meeting[34:05]
• Exploding Kittens will explore interesting core gameplay mechanics
• Planet Money will develop three economics themes or big ideas they want to see reflected in the game
They close the meeting amiably, expressing curiosity about what each side will bring back[34:37]

Series teaser and whimsical economic theme example

The hosts acknowledge the challenge of making one of the 5,000 annual games and attracting interest[34:22]
They tease the next episode, where they will turn economic ideas into tabletop game concepts[34:37]
• One playful example: elves who live forever but must plan for retirement, prompting the question of what that even means

Production credits and acknowledgments

Staff and special thanks

The episode was produced by James Sneed with help from Emma Peasley, edited by Marian McCune, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Gilly Moon and Robert Rodriguez[34:53]
Alex Goldmark is named as Planet Money's executive producer[35:00]
Special thanks are given to Asher McClanahan and Leonie's parents, with a playful "Hawk that game" message[35:06]
Hosts sign off as Erica Barris and Kenny Malone, thanking listeners[35:13]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

In crowded markets, distinctive design and storytelling are essential for standing out, but you must also choose a business model (niche premium vs. mass-market) that aligns with your goals and resources.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which aspects of my current product or idea are truly distinctive in the eyes of my target audience, and which are just noise?
  • • How am I currently balancing depth and complexity against accessibility and reach in my work or business?
  • • What concrete step could I take this month to either deepen my niche appeal or broaden my mass-market potential, and why?
2

Crowdfunding can validate demand and finance production, but it requires serious pre-launch marketing, professional presentation, and a clear understanding of costs and logistics.

Reflection Questions:

  • • If I were to launch a crowdfunding campaign tomorrow, what evidence do I actually have that a specific group of people wants what I'm offering?
  • • How could I start building buzz and an interested community before asking anyone for money or preorders?
  • • What is one operational or cost assumption in my plans that I should stress-test before scaling up or committing publicly?
3

Retaining control over a creative project lets you protect its vision, but it also means taking on the full burden of operations, risk, and problem-solving-so strategic partnerships can be a rational choice, not a sellout.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which parts of my projects truly require my direct control, and which could be better handled by an experienced partner?
  • • How might collaborating with a specialist free up my time and energy to focus on the aspects where I add the most value?
  • • What is one area of my current work where bringing in a partner or expert this year could significantly improve outcomes?
4

Great experiences are built around a strong core mechanic or loop-the repeated action that escalates, rewards mastery, and makes the people involved more interesting and engaged.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What is the core "loop" or repeated activity in the product, service, or process I'm responsible for, and does it genuinely become more engaging over time?
  • • How could I redesign the central interaction in my work so that it better rewards skill, interaction, and learning rather than passive consumption?
  • • What small experiment could I run in the next few weeks to test a new, more engaging core mechanic in my project or workflow?
5

Educational value lands better when it is embedded in fun, emotional experiences rather than framed as explicit instruction or tests.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where am I currently trying to "teach" people in a way that might feel like school rather than a natural part of an enjoyable experience?
  • • How could I redesign one communication, product, or training so that the learning is discovered through doing, playing, or interacting?
  • • What is one specific concept I want others to understand, and how might I turn it into a game, story, or challenge this month?
6

External forces like tariffs, supply chains, and manufacturing constraints can radically change unit economics, so resilient strategies include scenario planning and willingness to adapt components or pricing.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Which external cost or regulatory factors could most disrupt my current business model or project plans if they shifted suddenly?
  • • How can I build in buffers or alternative options so I'm not locked into a single fragile path for production or delivery?
  • • What is one dependency (supplier, platform, channel) I should map out and stress-test with a concrete contingency plan this quarter?

Episode Summary - Notes by Reese

BOARD GAMES 1: We're making a game
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