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Pivot

Shutdown Ending, Trump's Pardons, and Guest Curtis Sliwa

with Curtis Sliwa

Published November 12, 2025
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About This Episode

In this live Pivot show from Brooklyn, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway interview Curtis Sliwa about his New York City mayoral campaign, alleged attempts by billionaires to bribe him out of the race, his animal rescue advocacy, the Guardian Angels, crime and policing, and his views on New York politics and Andrew Cuomo. Swisher and Galloway then discuss the congressional shutdown deal, Democratic strategy, and Trump's pardons, followed by a wide-ranging conversation on feminism and the workplace, universal childcare, masculinity, parenting, AI risks and regulation, and audience Q&A on marriage, kids, and technology. The episode closes with reflections on mentorship, male role models, and the importance of lifting up young men without demonizing masculinity.

Topics Covered

New York City politics U.S. politics and elections Talk radio Prison system Feminism Workplace dynamics Parenting and child development Masculinity Artificial intelligence Loneliness

Disclaimer: We provide independent summaries of podcasts and are not affiliated with or endorsed in any way by any podcast or creator. All podcast names and content are the property of their respective owners. The views and opinions expressed within the podcasts belong solely to the original hosts and guests and do not reflect the views or positions of Summapod.

Quick Takeaways

  • Curtis Sliwa claims billionaires repeatedly tried to bribe him with up to $10 million to drop out of the New York City mayoral race, and says he refused on ethical and legal grounds.
  • Sliwa centers animal protection in his politics, advocating no-kill shelters, elevating animals from property to family status in law, and pledging to fill Gracie Mansion with rescued animals.
  • He describes the Guardian Angels as a way to give young men a sense of purpose and masculinity rooted in protection of the vulnerable and service without weapons.
  • Swisher and Galloway sharply criticize Democratic senators for caving on the shutdown fight after weeks of hardship for ordinary Americans, arguing it signals weakness and poor incentives.
  • They condemn Trump's wave of pardons for allies involved in efforts to overturn the 2020 election, noting it diverts clemency resources away from thousands of less powerful prisoners with meritorious cases.
  • The hosts push back on a New York Times conversation framing around "Did women ruin the workplace?", arguing that gender binaries are unhelpful and that universal childcare would benefit men as well as women.
  • Galloway emphasizes that men need role models and a positive code of masculinity focused on protection, provision, and kindness rather than suppressing masculinity as "toxic."
  • Swisher recounts explicit workplace sexism around pregnancy and argues that framing workplace problems as men vs. women is both offensive and ineffective.
  • In a Q&A, Swisher describes recent conversations with AI pioneer Geoff Hinton about regulating AI, avoiding autonomous weapons, and training AI systems with a 'maternal' orientation toward human well-being.
  • Galloway warns that AI's biggest long-term risk may be intensifying loneliness and isolation among young men via synthetic relationships, arguing for strict protections for minors, including no social media under 16 and no phones in schools.

Podcast Notes

Live show introduction and setup in Brooklyn

Pivot live taping context

Kara Swisher opens the show from the King's Theater in Brooklyn, noting it's a live taping of Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network[0:58]
Scott Galloway introduces himself and mentions they are taping for both audio and YouTube distribution to be released on Wednesday[1:40]

Introducing guest Curtis Sliwa

Swisher announces Curtis Sliwa as the special guest, describing him as a radio host, founder of the Guardian Angels, and most recently the Republican candidate for mayor of New York City[1:46]
She jokes that he is there because he did not win the election, adding that they did not even think of inviting Andrew Cuomo and declaring they are "not Cuomo-sexuals"[2:05]

Curtis Sliwa on billionaire pressure, bribery attempts, and threats during his mayoral run

Billionaires' alleged attempts to pay Sliwa to withdraw

Swisher notes Sliwa's love of New York and the fact that he refused to withdraw from the race, asking if he experienced pressure to drop out[2:18]
Sliwa says the billionaires he calls "masters of the universe" started with offers of $3 million to get him to leave the race[2:47]
• He recounts that the offers escalated: first $3 million, then $5 million, $7 million, $8 million, and finally $10 million in cash
He characterizes the offers as bribery and potentially criminal, emphasizing that he told them no because it was unethical[2:50]
Sliwa says his wife Nancy, an animal rescuer and attorney, told him he should not be taking such calls and urged him to expose them[2:59]
• He claims he publicly warned that any further attempts to bribe him would be recorded while he was "wired up like a Christmas tree" and monitored by Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg
• According to Sliwa, this threat ended the bribery conversations

From bribery to threats and need for security

Sliwa says that when the billionaires could not bribe him, they decided they would "kill" him, and notes this had been tried before by the Gotti-linked Gambinos who shot him with five hollow-point bullets[3:36]
He claims they then targeted his wife, whom he calls the most important person in his life and someone who has saved him many times[3:50]
• He says threats against her and himself led them, for the first time in his life, to require armed security
Sliwa argues that these billionaires are unused to being told no and that he told them that the next mayor would be chosen by the people, not by wealthy insiders[4:03]
• He states that "one person, one vote" decided the race, naming Zoran Mondami as the winner and saying, "The people have spoken"

Refusing to take the deal versus Eric Adams

Swisher asks if there was any moment when he considered taking the money, and contrasts him to Eric Adams, implying Adams accepted support from these interests[4:26]
Sliwa quips that for billionaires such sums are "tip money" and portrays Adams as being like Bob Barker on "The Price is Right," taking a "one and done" deal[4:30]
He reflects that he came into the world with nothing and will leave with nothing, emphasizing a belief in "selfless servants, not self-serving servants" in public office[4:47]

Curtis Sliwa on cats, masculinity, animals, and homelessness

Cats, masculinity, and public perception

Swisher praises Sliwa's joyful campaign and debate performances, then pivots to his well-publicized love of cats[5:00]
She quotes his line that people think if you are a man with cats, "you've gone soft, you're not turgid, you're flaccid," and asks why people see cats as unmanly[5:26]
Sliwa says people associate cats with "cat women" like his wife, who do most of the rescuing, and do not expect someone like him, who says he can "hit you so hard your mother will feel the vibrations," to be a cat person[5:53]
• He describes challenging people who criticize his love of cats with "You got a problem with that?" and notes they quickly back down

Defending pigeons and Gandhi quote on animals

Sliwa shifts to pigeons, noting that some people call them "rats with wings," while he and his wife love street pigeons and feed them despite spikes being placed to repel them[6:12]
• He recounts his wife feeding pigeons, people yelling that they spread disease, and him stepping in with, "You got a problem with my wife feeding the pigeons?" causing people to retreat
He cites Mahatma Gandhi's line that a society that does not care for its animals does not care for its people[6:43]
Sliwa describes taking the 2 train and seeing homeless and emotionally disturbed people, many veterans, sleeping in the subway as the weather turns colder[6:47]
• He calls this situation a "shanda" and "disgraciada," a stain on society's soul, arguing that failure to care for animals is linked to failure to care for people in distress

What Sliwa would do as mayor with unchecked authority

Galloway asks what one policy Sliwa would implement if he could act without approval from any legislature[7:18]
Sliwa says to "stick it" to critics like Donald Trump and Elon Musk, he would fill every part of Gracie Mansion with animals rescued from shelters that otherwise would be euthanized[7:34]
• He advocates for no-kill shelters in New York and other cities, insisting no animal should be put to death and that animals are friends, family members, and equals, not property as current New York State law treats them
• He suggests society would be much better if people were treated with the same care and respect we ought to show animals

Guardian Angels, masculinity, and purpose for young men

Origin and role of the Guardian Angels

Galloway notes the Guardian Angels were founded 47 years ago in the Bronx and asks about the kind of young people who joined, especially in relation to masculinity and purpose[9:27]
Sliwa situates their founding in 1979 Bronx, pointing listeners to the cult classic film "The Warriors" to visualize the gang-filled environment at the time[9:46]
He describes many recruits as dysfunctional young men from dysfunctional homes, often without good male role models and surrounded by poor examples in the streets[10:05]
He says the Guardian Angels sought to redefine being a man as not relying on weapons, calling guns a "phalic symbol" and mocking escalating firepower bravado[9:32]
• According to Sliwa, a real man protects the poor, elderly, infirm, and children, and has a moral responsibility to risk his life for those who cannot defend themselves
He notes that six Guardian Angels have been killed and about three dozen seriously injured in the line of duty[10:55]
• Sliwa says he wears his signature beret in honor of those killed, describing their work as humanitarian service for people they did not even know

Sliwa on political identity, populism, and New York billionaires

Republican label versus populist self-image

Asked whether conservative ideas are futile in a deep-blue city, Sliwa notes that President Trump questioned whether he was really a Republican[11:26]
He says he is not treated as a typical Republican and instead sees himself as a populist representing working-class people, especially in the outer boroughs[11:44]
He highlights pride in having run on an independent "Protect Animals" line, created by his wife and described as the first such electoral line in U.S. history focused on animal protection[11:58]
• Sliwa recounts people telling him they could not vote for him as a Republican but would vote for him on the Protect Animals line because of his record on animals

Family background and political evolution

Sliwa describes his parents as hardcore blue-collar Democrats: his father a merchant seaman for 50 years and his mother a dental technician[12:16]
He recalls walking into their bedroom and seeing religious icons plus pictures of Barack Obama and JFK on the wall, but his father refused to hang a Republican like Abraham Lincoln, calling Republicans the party of the privileged and wealthy[12:43]
His first vote was for George McGovern against Richard Nixon in 1972, and he associates his youth with the 1960s counterculture ethos of questioning authority and distrusting anyone over 30[12:49]
He emphasizes the importance of free speech, saying the answer to hate speech is "more free speech" and repeating "free speech" as something he cherishes[13:24]
When asked how he became a Republican despite this upbringing, Sliwa says his father raised him on Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" and even his father later asked how he ended up a Republican[13:40]
• Sliwa answers that he identified with some Republican policies, though not all, and implies his views have shifted over time

Billionaires versus working class and reaction to the mayoral outcome

Swisher notes that New York City CEOs and billionaires spent more than $40 million to stop Zoran Mamdani and also Sliwa, mentioning Bill Ackman's $2 million spending and other wealthy figures' attacks[14:08]
Sliwa explains he called Mamdani's volunteers "Zoranistas" and frequently encountered them in the streets and subways, saying they worked hard and earned their victory and mandate[15:17]
He says he immediately called to congratulate Mamdani, arguing that if the mayor does well, the city does well, but warns that institutional forces will try to co‑opt him[15:33]
He compares politics to organized crime, saying the only difference is that politics does not typically end with dead bodies; otherwise, he sees them as the same dirty business[16:01]
Sliwa criticizes Bill Ackman as a "fake, phony, fraudulent, fugazi" billionaire who viciously attacked both Mamdani and Sliwa, then quickly tried to befriend Mamdani after the election[16:45]
• He portrays billionaires as hedging their bets with pieds-à-terre in Manhattan and main residences in Florida, while blue-collar workers are left with "ugats" and "bupkis"

Crime, policing, and qualified immunity in New York City

State of crime and Sliwa's experience with the NYPD

Galloway asks Sliwa about his assessment of crime trends, the current NYPD, and what he would have done as mayor to improve relations between community and police[18:38]
Sliwa notes this is not the police department he grew up with, recalling being arrested 81 times and receiving what he calls "wooden shampoo" and "concrete facial" beatings[18:52]
• He recounts a sergeant on the 4 train arresting him on the charge of "inhaling and exhaling" and being lost on Rikers Island for a few days in a hostile dormitory, forcing him to stay awake with one eye open
He says the NYPD is now a minority-majority force, meaning minorities are the numerical majority, and notes how much it has changed[19:28]

Qualified immunity and quotas

Sliwa explains that civil servants, including police, historically had a form of insurance or protection so that if they were sued, taxpayers were liable; he says this was stripped from the police in 2021 under the term qualified immunity[19:35]
He argues that without such protections, officers are hesitant and nonresponsive, and insists a responsive police department is necessary[20:00]
He acknowledges abuses like excessive stop-and-frisk under Bloomberg, describing it as a numbers game driven by quotas that damaged community relations[20:06]
• He cites former PBA chief Patty Lynch complaining that a quota of five stop-and-frisks per day was "killing" the police in communities, but says leadership still cared only about hitting quotas
Sliwa generalizes that quotas, including in ICE operations, are harmful when applied to people, even if targeting serious criminals initially had public support[20:38]
• He insists everyone, whether legal resident or migrant, is entitled to due process with no shortcuts or easy passes

Masks for law enforcement and demonstrators

Responding to a question about ICE officers wearing masks, Sliwa says Americans should be able to identify who people are, noting that police now must give business cards because some hide their shield numbers[21:22]
He acknowledges some officers and demonstrators are doxxed and threatened, but still advocates removing masks for both law enforcement and protesters[21:52]
• He argues that judges, politicians, and journalists do not wear masks, and that everyone playing a public role should be identifiable, with rights balanced on all sides

Sliwa on Andrew Cuomo and campaign nastiness

Harsh critique of Andrew Cuomo

Asked what Andrew Cuomo should do now, Sliwa says Cuomo will "slither back under his rock in the Hamptons" and socialize with billionaire friends[22:27]
He calls Cuomo's campaign the most destructive and dystopian he can remember, saying that listening to Cuomo made him feel soiled and wanting a hot shower[22:52]
Sliwa likens Cuomo to a political zombie or ogre who keeps coming back, accuses him of being nasty and mean, and references scandals around nursing homes and sexual harassment[23:13]
• He says if you were 30 and younger, Cuomo would be "very flirty," and if you were a senior he might send you to a long-term care unit "because you'd be dead," summarizing with the phrase that Cuomo was "slapping fannies and killing grannies" and should "never see the light of day" politically

Government shutdown deal and Democratic strategy debate

Description of the shutdown-ending agreement

Swisher notes that the shutdown appears close to ending after eight Democratic senators, none facing re-election, voted with the GOP for a plan funding government only through January[25:41]
She says SNAP benefits would be restored, but the Trump administration is still litigating in courts, and there is only a promise-without House Speaker Mike Johnson's formal commitment-of a December Senate vote on extending expiring Obamacare subsidies[25:59]
She highlights that both House and Senate still need to pass the final bill and references her post on Threads paraphrasing the situation as "we're winning, we're winning, we surrender"[26:11]

Galloway's anger at Democratic capitulation

Galloway calls the outcome "pitch black" and says Democrats are not worthy of representing people who make sacrifices when they surrender like this[26:46]
He argues that Democrats put Americans through 40 days of trauma in hopes that sacrifice would pay off in a better nation, as in any battle, but then folded for nothing[27:44]
He asserts that incentives now encourage Republicans to become more mendacious, because they have learned Democrats care and will therefore fold faster under pressure[27:30]
Swisher mentions commentators like Tim Miller who claim the move could be a strategic trap by Democrats, involving seating an Arizona Democrat and releasing Epstein files, and forcing Republicans to own benefit cuts when they refuse to extend them[28:52]
• Swisher clarifies she does not agree with the "trap" theory and instead believes a group of safe-seat senators decided to take a dive, with others, including Chuck Schumer, protected to vote no while orchestrating the outcome

Health care, fear, and political perception

Galloway says the American public prefers "strong and wrong" over "weak and right," quoting Bill Clinton, and compares surrendering to the idea of capitulating to Russia because they shell maternity wards[30:10]
He criticizes Democrats for prioritizing symbolic wins like releasing Epstein files over materially improving average Americans' lives, especially regarding health care costs[30:27]
He ties happiness to not just what one has but the absence of fear of losing it, and highlights that in countries with socialized medicine, medical diagnosis does not mean bankruptcy[30:54]
• Galloway cites that 40% of American households have medical or dental debt, and describes a parent having to borrow money for a child's root canal as emblematic of this fear
He accuses Democrats of telling Americans they would endure shutdown pain to keep insurance premiums from doubling, and then caving, calling it a huge failure that commentators will try to spin as a win[31:39]
He publicly offers to donate $100,000 to AOC within 48 hours if she announces a primary challenge against Schumer, signaling his frustration with Democratic leadership[31:48]

Missed leverage and air traffic control idea

Swisher asks what happens next, predicting Congress will pass a short-term deal and push governing off again until January, with midterm optics dominating strategy[32:00]
Galloway says polls were shifting blame toward Republicans and Trump when Democrats were winning the narrative, and argues they should have applied more pressure instead of surrendering[33:23]
He describes his idea to ground private jets as a pressure tactic because 16% of tail numbers carry less than 1% of passengers, and wealthy private flyers would then press representatives to resolve the shutdown[33:46]
• He notes that officials ultimately did plan to cut flights, including private ones, but says Democrats did not need to relent because they were winning the fight

Trump pardons and the broader clemency system

Pardons for election-related figures

Swisher reports that President Trump has granted pardons to numerous people accused of trying to overturn the 2020 election, including Rudy Giuliani, and speculates sarcastically that Ghislaine Maxwell might be next[34:36]
She notes that many of Giuliani's judgments are in state court, so she believes he will still face financial consequences, but says preemptive pardons reflect expectations of electoral loss and future legal problems[34:52]

Galloway's concerns about clemency priorities

Galloway recounts a lawyer warning him that once you bring in the law, it is a "crude, blunt instrument" lacking nuance, a perspective that stuck with him[35:54]
He says while it bothers him that clearly criminal allies are being pardoned, he is more disturbed that limited clemency resources are diverted away from thousands of less powerful prisoners with strong clemency cases[36:43]
He highlights that there are 10,000 to 30,000 clemency files, including people serving extreme sentences under three-strikes laws, who now face delays because attention goes to what he calls an "orgy of corruption" favoring people close to the administration[36:52]
Galloway argues this abuses and mocks a justice-system mechanism meant to correct the system's crudeness and occasional errors[37:13]
Swisher labels the process "pay for play" and warns that if Ghislaine Maxwell is released, she and Sliwa will go to Texas in protest, calling Maxwell a monster[37:25]

Debate on feminism, workplace culture, and childcare

Reaction to NYT conversation on women and the workplace

Swisher describes a New York Times Ross Douthat opinion conversation that originally ran under the headline "Did Women Ruin the Workplace?" and notes the title kept changing, eventually becoming "Did Liberal Feminism Ruin the Workplace?"[39:08]
She mocks the shifting headlines and shares a joke that it had supposedly been changed again to "Did Liberal Feminism Ruin Slapping a Broad on the Caboose?"[39:29]
Swisher criticizes Douthat's interviewing as insecure, unfunny, and badly done, and accuses his guests of being obsessed with "woke," reductive, and shallow on the topic[39:51]
She concedes the piece attracted attention but calls it terrible content and asks Galloway if she, as a woman, ruined the workplace[40:11]

Galloway on women in his companies and leadership trends

Galloway says that in his San Francisco and New York companies, 27 of 35 people who became millionaires were women or LGBTQ, noting this was not intentional but arose from offering flexibility that appealed to many women[40:34]
He cites that about 47% of full-time workers are female and that female C‑suite representation has increased from 18% to 27% in a decade[41:02]
He says equality of opportunity does not guarantee equality of outcomes and predicts leadership may not reach a strict 50‑50 gender split[41:24]

Universal childcare as support for men and families

Galloway argues that the best thing for struggling young men would be universal childcare, because economic anxiety is a major driver of divorce and male distress[41:53]
He notes that five of six suicide victims in morgues are men, that self-harm among men spikes in the year after divorce, and that 70% of divorce filings are by women[42:11]
He highlights that living in high-cost cities often requires dual incomes, and unaffordable childcare increases stress on marriages, disproportionately impacting men as well as women[42:31]
He argues the U.S. should join other G7 countries in offering universal childcare and frames it not as a "woke" or exclusively female issue but as something that would lift up young men too[43:38]

Swisher's personal experience of workplace sexism

Swisher recalls returning from pregnancy leave as a top Wall Street Journal tech reporter and an editor telling her she would "need more time" now[44:01]
She challenged him by asking what had changed, noting he had three children and did not need more time, and warned him never to say that to another woman or she would sue him "back to yesterday"[44:24]
She calls setting up workplace issues as women vs. men "wildly offensive" and, more importantly, stupid and unhelpful for improving workplaces[44:47]

Liberal vs illiberal, not men vs women

Galloway notes that Title IX was enacted when 97% of elected officials were male, suggesting progress often reflects liberal vs. illiberal values rather than a simple gender battle[45:30]
He points out that 54% of white women voted for Trump, arguing that many women support patriarchy and that the real alliance is between liberal men and liberal women[45:45]
He criticizes framing issues as all men versus all women or all men being illiberal and all women liberal, saying it is inaccurate and divisive[45:38]

Marriage equality, personal relationships, and humor

Supreme Court on same-sex marriage and Kim Davis

Swisher reports that the Supreme Court declined to hear Kim Davis's petition to overturn Obergefell, leaving same-sex marriage legal nationwide[46:04]
She notes Kim Davis must pay a gay couple $365,000 and emphasizes it should be called "marriage" in media coverage, not "gay marriage"[46:32]

Swisher and Galloway's jokes about marrying each other

Swisher jokes that the good news is she and Galloway do not now need to get married, showing a before photo of her wife from their second date[46:38]
They riff humorously on lesbian relationship stereotypes, divorce rates, aesthetics, couches, and Subarus, and Swisher mentions her ex‑wife Megan Smith positively[46:58]
Galloway tells a story of living in San Francisco, then coming to New York, being dazzled by its energy, and returning to request a divorce, offering his then‑wife their friends; he says they remain good friends[48:09]
Swisher makes clear she and Galloway will never marry or have sex, making jokes about needing ketamine and comparing it to a taffy pull[48:43]

Masculinity, role models, and raising boys

Galloway's male role models

Asked who his male role model is, Galloway says he often struggles to name one but admires everyday men who work hard, absorb more complaints than they give, create surplus value, and act as good citizens and patriots[49:23]
He recounts several men who stepped up after his father left: a neighbor who took him horseback riding, a coach, and a scout leader who bought him baseball equipment when he sensed the family lacked money[49:58]
He calls loss of a male role model the "single point of failure" for boys going off track, citing research that boys in single‑parent homes have worse outcomes than girls in similar homes[50:39]
Galloway says once a boy loses a male role model through death, divorce, or abandonment, he becomes more likely to be incarcerated than to graduate college[50:46]
He urges more men to mentor boys, describing how easy it is to add value given how bad many of their decisions are and how impactful it is when a good man sees value in them[51:06]
Swisher lists her own male role models, including her sons, brothers, nephew, Walt Mossberg, and Galloway, noting the positive impact he has had on her son Alex's life[51:52]

Masculinity, femininity, and rejecting "toxic masculinity" label

Galloway argues masculinity and femininity are not confined to people born male or female, saying Swisher demonstrates great masculinity and that his male friends are often very feminine[52:43]
He says these attributes can be adopted by anyone and can serve as constructive codes, especially for young men who need guardrails[53:13]
He claims there is no such thing as "toxic masculinity"-only cruelty, criminal behavior, and abuse, which he describes as the opposite of masculinity[53:21]
He advocates celebrating masculinity's roles of provider, protector, and procreator, emphasizing commitment, discipline, generosity, and a kindness practice, and argues this can help lost young men who get mixed messages about how to behave[53:32]

Audience Q&A: marriage, parenting, AI, and regret

Marriage advice for an engaged couple

An audience member from Philadelphia asks for marriage advice for her newly engaged friends who met at work and both listen to Pivot[55:59]
Swisher says both she and Galloway are divorced and jokes about not being ideal experts, but suggests being kinder and practicing active listening, admitting she could be more consciously kind to her partner[57:18]
Galloway gives advice aimed at the groom: put away the scorecard and decide what kind of husband you want to be, rather than keeping track of perceived fairness in contributions[57:38]
• He notes people inflate their own contributions and diminish their partner's, so he urges husbands to hold themselves to their own vision of a good husband
His second piece of advice is to always express sexual desire and affection, saying it signals "I choose you" and that women want to be wanted[58:04]
His third rule is "never let a woman be cold or hungry," humorously recommending pashminas and power bars at all times[58:25]

Raising boys and girls, and regrets about family size

A woman from Miami asks Swisher if she parents her daughter differently than her sons and asks Galloway what he might have done differently had he had a daughter[58:46]
Swisher says her daughter "runs the show" among her boys and has strong executive function, and she observes all her kids are very cisgendered and her daughter is very "girly"[59:34]
She worries there will be a day when her daughter feels lesser because of something someone says, noting her sons' innate confidence versus her fear of undermining messages to her daughter[1:00:05]
Swisher says she tries to support all her children's choices, avoid calling them stupid or running them down, and genuinely sees them as "the greatest things ever"[1:00:30]
Galloway describes a New York story in which his nearly four‑year‑old son applied to seven expensive preschools and was rejected by all, which contributed to his economic anxiety and decision to leave NYC for Florida[1:01:33]
He says they moved to Delray Beach and cut their living costs in half, and this anxiety is one reason he chose not to have more children, a decision he now sees as a major regret[1:02:05]
Swisher says she wishes she had more kids beyond her four and jokes she is happy to have one more child than J.D. Vance[1:02:13]

AI risks, regulation, and loneliness

Jeff Hinton's warnings and maternal AI concept

An audience member from Mexico asks why society seems to be "sleepwalking into Armageddon" around AI and what the strong case for optimism is beyond clichéd answers like curing cancer[1:03:46]
Swisher says she interviewed AI pioneer Geoff Hinton for about two hours that day and that he has been warning about AI risks without being a simple doom-monger[1:04:04]
She says her biggest issue is that AI is being driven by seven huge, heterogeneous companies guided by politics and the ability to curry favor with figures like Donald Trump, which she believes is the wrong governance model[1:04:28]
Swisher recounts Hinton's view that countries should first pass rules on AI areas where there is broad global alignment, such as banning autonomous killer drones and other obviously dangerous applications[1:04:59]
She notes areas where alignment is unlikely, such as weaponry and misinformation, because both the U.S. and China may want AI tools for influencing each other's populations[1:05:12]
She says Hinton proposed training AI systems with a "maternal" orientation, using the analogy of a mother and baby where the baby in some sense controls the mother's behavior through care imperatives[1:05:50]
• Swisher explains that in Hinton's analogy, humans would be the baby and AI the mother, and we should design AI so it will do anything to take care of us rather than control or harm us
She expresses optimism about AI in healthcare, saying it could be "mind‑blowingly amazing" and stating flatly that "You will not die of cancer because of AI"[1:06:24]
She also mentions concerns about AI chatbots contributing to youth suicides and argues citizens must push for safety and guardrails, especially for children, before expanding AI use[1:06:44]

Galloway's steelman case and fear of loneliness

Galloway notes humans naturally catastrophize but that over the medium to long term, optimists generally outperform pessimists; historically, enduring technologies create more jobs than they destroy[1:07:11]
He gives the example of automotive automation, which reduced some factory jobs but created new ones in components such as heated seats and stereos, leading to more total auto employment[1:07:42]
He says the optimistic case is that AI will open new sectors in healthcare, robotics, and senior care and spawn many startups and skilled jobs[1:07:55]
However, he says his biggest AI fear is not often discussed: loneliness and the evolution of an asocial, asexual species of young male whose life revolves around synthetic relationships and AI porn[1:08:45]
He observes that about 10 companies in AI now dominate the U.S. economy's market-cap growth, making the economy a giant bet on AI, and he worries they have an incentive to sequester young men into digital experiences[1:08:29]
Galloway cites that American men ages 20-30 now spend less time outdoors than prison inmates, and fears young men will increasingly avoid real-world social events and relationships[1:09:04]
He calls for strict rules: no synthetic relationships for under‑18s, a distinct AI regime for minors, no social media under 16, and no phones in schools, arguing loneliness and youth isolation are the biggest risks[1:09:37]

Show closing and credits

Thanks to audience and production team

Swisher thanks the audience, says they love their fans, and notes that selected shows from the tour will be available on YouTube and in podcast feeds[1:09:56]
Galloway reads production credits, acknowledges the Vox experiential team, and reminds listeners to follow Pivot and subscribe to New York Magazine[1:10:28]

Lessons Learned

Actionable insights and wisdom you can apply to your business, career, and personal life.

1

Maintaining integrity in the face of enormous financial pressure requires a clear internal code that defines what you will not compromise, even when everyone around you assumes money rules everything.

Reflection Questions:

  • • What specific lines or principles in your life or work are truly non-negotiable, regardless of the financial upside?
  • • How do you typically respond when powerful people implicitly or explicitly suggest you could benefit by bending your ethics?
  • • What concrete step could you take this month to make your ethical boundaries clearer to yourself and to others you deal with?
2

A healthy model of masculinity is grounded in protection, service, and responsibility for the vulnerable, not in weapons, dominance displays, or keeping score in relationships.

Reflection Questions:

  • • In what situations do you default to displays of power or defensiveness instead of leaning into protection and service?
  • • How might you redefine what it means to be 'strong' in your family, company, or community so that it centers responsibility rather than aggression?
  • • What is one relationship where you could consciously shift from a scorekeeping mindset to a service mindset this week?
3

Political and business negotiations often reward those who project strength and consistency; constant capitulation after asking others to sacrifice erodes trust and teaches opponents that escalation works.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Where in your life or work have you asked others to bear a cost and then backed away from the stance that justified it?
  • • How could you build negotiation strategies that balance compassion with a clear willingness to hold the line when necessary?
  • • What is one current conflict or negotiation where you need to clarify your red lines and communicate that you will not retreat from them?
4

Investing in structural supports like affordable childcare and healthcare can reduce pervasive economic anxiety, strengthen relationships, and improve mental health, especially for those under the most pressure to provide.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How much of your day-to-day stress is actually rooted in fear about money, housing, healthcare, or childcare rather than the surface problems you focus on?
  • • In what ways could you advocate-at work, locally, or politically-for systems that ease these structural pressures for families around you?
  • • What is one practical change you could make in your household or organization to reduce economic stress on caregivers?
5

Mentorship and visible role models can dramatically alter the trajectory of young people, especially boys who have lost a male figure, and it often takes surprisingly little time or effort to make a meaningful difference.

Reflection Questions:

  • • Who in your orbit-a relative, neighbor, colleague's child or student-might quietly be in need of a steady adult example or encouragement?
  • • How could you incorporate small but regular gestures of mentorship, like check-in calls or shared activities, into your routine?
  • • What skills, experiences, or perspectives do you have that would be especially valuable to a younger person trying to find their way?
6

Emerging technologies like AI should be guided by explicit values and guardrails-especially for children-so that they augment human flourishing rather than amplifying isolation, misinformation, or harm.

Reflection Questions:

  • • How do you currently set boundaries for your own and your family's use of AI, social media, and digital devices, if at all?
  • • Where could you push for clearer norms or policies-at work, in schools, or in your community-that protect minors from the most harmful aspects of these technologies?
  • • What is one specific guideline you could adopt this week (for example, device-free meals or age-based app limits) to steer technology use toward healthier outcomes?

Episode Summary - Notes by Devon

Shutdown Ending, Trump's Pardons, and Guest Curtis Sliwa
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